Help with Radio Scanning

[Mark W]

So I bought a scanner a few weeks ago and have been playing around trying to get everything programmed and working with railroad frequencies. 

I think I have everything set up correctly now, but so far I've been less than impressed with what I'm able to pick up.  I live pretty close to BNSF's Hobson Yard and seem to have no trouble picking up yard chatter and am starting to recognize the lingo, however I've driven away from the city a few times and once I get outside of the yard range, I haven't been able to pick up anything. 

Most specifically, I've got a search block set for the EOT frequencies, but after paralleling 2 different trains for several miles down HWY6, I still get nothing, not even static.  Google tells me I should expect to pickup some kind of "chirp" at least every 40 seconds when I have a train within 3-5 miles. 

I've also chased about half a dozen trains running a limit search on all RR frequencies, been around when trains meet, signals turn green, turn red, observed all kinds of train action I would expect to be accompanied by some form of radio chatter, but again nothing. 

Anyone with scanning experience able to shed some light on what may be my trouble?  I feel like the radio silence may be a combination of non-talkative crews or possibly signal obstruction, but I've tried everything with the EOT frequencies and I'm completely baffled there. 

For reference, I have the RadioShack Pro651 and the adjustable antenna, set to about 17.5 inches as per google for the RR Frequency range.   

[C855B]

Oh, my... where should I start?

First, let's confirm that the radio works on something other than RR frequencies. My baseline test for radio + antenna is NOAA weather frequencies. You should be able to receive WXM20 on 162.475 almost with the antenna unplugged, but the real test will be KIH61 on 162.400 (Omaha). If you cannot hear anything on 162.400, then the radio or connections to the antenna are suspect.

You are going to have little luck "searching" FRED frequencies. The "chirp" is so short that most scanners will not lock on it. Set the scanner to 457.9375 in manual mode and see if you get something. That antenna you have is pretty awful for UHF frequencies, so I would try it first with the portable flexible antenna, a/k/a "rubber duckie".

As far as "out on the road", you're not going to get a lot of radio chatter because you are surrounded by heavy lines with CTC. You might hear a defect detector, but, basically, unless there is some exception condition OR the dispatcher is issuing a track warrant to a M/W supervisor, there's not going to be much to hear. Also, since you're close to Omaha, it is possible some of the UP supervisory frequencies have gone digital, although nothing train-to-train or DS-to-train should be digital yet.

Anyway, prove overall function with the WX freqs and see if you can get a FRED or two when you're close to Hobson, and we'll go from there.

[Mark W]

I'm able to pick up LPD, UNL, Fire, EMT, Lincoln Airport, Air National Guard. Lincoln weather comes in crystal, but didn't get anything on 162.400.  To be fair, not even my weather radio picks up Omaha from South Lincoln.

Interesting about the FRED chirp while scanning.  When experimenting I only had 457.9375 and 452.9375 enabled, so I'd expect with it only switching between those two it would still be able to pick up something. 
I've programmed those two frequencies with an LED flash, and every so often I will get the flash (90% of the time from 452), but nothing else, and the pattern is pretty much random.  More importantly, while paralleling the trains on a good 10 mile run on HWY6, not even got a random flash.   

[C855B]

OK, we've established that it works.   That you can't receive 162.400 even from south Lincoln with the car antenna kinda sorta speaks to antenna issues. I recommend a better antenna tuned for the RR bands - this tuned pro-grade antenna will probably make a world of difference for you, and I couldn't do much better on the price from my suppliers.

Seriously on FREDs - squelch circuits have a hard time distinguishing between noise and digital. By the time the squelch and scan logic has "figured out" there is a signal present with a FRED, it's gone. The reason you get 452.9375 most of the time when you do is that's the control signal from the locomotive (when it's present!), with its much better antenna and higher location. I'm not versed in the current FRED tech, so I don't know if the front-to-back frequency is now mandatory, but the required freq is the 457.9375 back-to-front. Frankly, FREDs are a tough catch. Even with professional analog gear I was rarely able to get more than 2-3 miles range in the car, and that was location-specific. Most of the time I knew the train was there before hearing the FRED. (Technical reason for this - again, it's the squelch. The FRED receiver has no squelch - it is listening to an open channel. The digital logic will pick the data out of the noise long before a squelch will decide the analog audio is good enough to hear.)

BTW, I wouldn't use your weather radio as a reference on NOAA out of Omaha, they are mediocre receivers dependent on a strong local signal. Or, rather, they are designed to be mediocre receivers, since if they were too sensitive you'd be constantly picking-up pager noise and other really obnoxious digital signals.

[Mark W]

Thanks for all the help, Mike.  I was worried there was a magic configuration somewhere that I didn't have yet, but it's looking more and more like I am actually picking up everything available after all, and it was just my expectations that were too high.

I've seen that exact antenna recommended from quite a few different sites, so I'm sure it will end up in my collection eventually.


So if we shift this to expectations, let's say I've got a full tank, camera charged up, and a cooler full of snacks ready to hunt some trains.  What could I expect to hear on the scanner and how would that help me choose which direction to drive (or let me know to stay put for a few more minutes)?

[C855B]

No problem, Mark. RR radio has been a passion for me since the '70s.

Out on the main... with advances in CTC, especially the new-style computer-driven systems, there is a lot less need for voice contact with the crews on high-density lines. When things are flowing normally, the radio will be frustratingly silent as you watch a parade of trains go by... or not! About the only communications you might hear will be automatic defect detectors. However, on some lines - I think UP may do this now in some places - there is no automated announcement as the train passes, the information goes to the dispatcher and if there is a problem, he or she then contacts the train... and only if there's a problem. Anyway, this is the importance of a good antenna. Defect detectors are typically only 5 or 10W, intentionally low power to limit communications to the local area.

The radio is useful for exceptions. If you hear the DS issue a track warrant to M/W personnel, you can use that information to determine if there is a window where no trains will be passing that point. This rule, however, sometimes doesn't hold on the 3-track UP main, because a maintainer might get a warrant for one or two tracks while trains are still active on the remaining open line. Obviously if something really big happens or is about to happen, if you're close enough to the event the radio is going to be the first line of info about the situation.

If you have a non-CTC line in your area or one with older equipment (BNSF Lincoln-Denver?), trains may require warrants. This can generate lots of chatter. I know BNSF has adopted an aggressive approach to warrants in my area (southern IL), but their line here is mostly ABS. At-grade junctions of different RRs usually result in the need for the minority roads to contact the DS of the heaviest line to get clearance, warrants and/or signals, which is the situation where I live where the BNSF and NS cross the IC main. Radio chatter on the IC itself is infrequent (yard switching, a couple of defect detectors) since they are CTC, but the two other RRs are required to contact the IC dispatcher on the IC frequency to cross.

Full disclosure here - FM 2-way radio is fading from the scene. With advanced CTC, PTC and other digital systems being rolled-out including digital 2-way radio for supervisors, the scanner's days are numbered. There are new scanners (expensive!) that cover some of the digital modes, but they require a whole new level of knowledge about the system you're monitoring, which tends to become a hobby unto itself. It's shortly not to be casual any more, and even if you crack the new stuff you're still not going to hear what we could hear 10, 20 or 30 years ago.