Which passenger coach equipment had to be reversed?

[Paradise275]

Hi.
For passenger coaches and related equipment on trains running in the 1940's and 50's, which cars had to be reversed for the return journey? I know the observation car would have, but what about the RPO? Dome cars probably had to be turned too. What about coaches etc? If reversed, was that done on a wye or turntable?

Rick

[Bob Bufkin]

Would depend on the type and length of train.  Most railroads turned the whole train on a wye in major cities.  If it were a short branchline with no turning facilities they would just put a loco on the other end and run it. 

[nickelplate759]

It depends.

Most (not sure about all) coaches do not need to be turned.  Same for sleepers. But sometimes they were anyway.
Diners are a maybe.  Railroads often want the dining room next to first class sections (parlor or sleeper).

Observation cars DO need to be turned.
Combines need to be turned so the baggage end is front.
Full RPOs do not need turning, but a combination with an RPO section does.

Sometimes it was/is easier to turn the entire train than individual cars.
At one point (when there were no observation cars) C&NW didn't turn some of its trains at all, just put the engine at the other end.  In that case, the baggage/combine was at the rear of the train heading into Chicago.

George

[seusscaboose]

Most floor plans in coaches allowed for dual direction running

Seats could be flipped if needed

Or

If not possible, then 50% are positioned in reverse



Typically
You turn the whole train, not just the engine

[Ryan87]

In Vancouver Canadian Pacific had a reverse loop to turn the Canadian for its return trip...

The loop actually circled the roundhouse.

[Bob Bufkin]

PRR wanted the sleeper winows to face Horseshoe curve in both direcgtions.  NYC wanted them to face the Hudson River.  Not sure how they handled that.

[CBQ Fan]

Turning on a wye was most common for any repositioning. I am sure you can find a rare example or two of using a turntable but very very inefficient and labor intensive, a train of any length would be impractical to break down turn and reassemble.

[nickelplate759]

PRR wanted the sleeper winows to face Horseshoe curve in both direcgtions.  NYC wanted them to face the Hudson River.  Not sure how they handled that.

Amtrak does this with the bedrooms on the Coast Starlight today - they always face the Pacific.  I imagine this is done by taking the train apart and re-ordering the cars, turning only those cars that have a true front/rear.  Only one of of the cars on the Starlight actually needs to be turned (the Transition Sleeper).

George

[Lenny53]

In Vancouver Canadian Pacific had a reverse loop to turn the Canadian for its return trip...

The loop actually circled the roundhouse.

CP's Glen Yard had a balloon track for reversing the Canadian as well as other trains in Montreal.

[Blazeman]

PRR wanted the sleeper winows to face Horseshoe curve in both direcgtions.  Not sure how they handled that.

Balloon track at Sunnyside Yard

[eric220]

For a point to point run (say Chicago to New York) if you want one side of the car to face the same way in both directions, you don't turn it. Turning a car by definition reorients a car in the opposite direction. That adds a whole new level of complexity if some cars in a consist need to be turned (obs, diner, cafe) but others need to remain oriented the same way (high cost sleeper accommodations with a good view).

[Puddington]

In several 1950's and 60's scenes in the Green Frog Emery Gulash Chicago Passenger series of videos they show ATSF, PRR, GT and other eastern road cars being dragged out of the Union station(s) by a switcher for routing to the car washer and either a balloon track or wye (depending on the road and station) In one case they show the entire consist being dragged out tail first by a switcher with E units on the "back" over a bridge on to a wye for turning and then routing on it's way east.... looks like many different methods.

[cv_acr]

From the train's introduction to the early 1980s, Canadian Pacific's "The Canadian" split at Sudbury, ON for Toronto and Montreal routes. Eastbound, one train from Vancouver turns into two for Toronto and Montreal; westbound two trains from Montreal and Toronto combined into one for Vancouver.

Extra cars left over after the westbound trains combined laid over at Sudbury until needed the next morning for the eastbound split. Prior to the arrival of the eastbound train, the cars would be turned on the turntable at the Sudbury shops. Technically speaking there was actually a wye in Sudbury, but it was never used to turn anything. A typical reaction from railroaders that actually worked that area during the period is to stop and think for a bit and then reply along the lines "Oh, yeah, there was a wye track back there, wasn't there?" No one has ever admitted seeing it used.

The next closest wye was five miles out of town at Romford, the actual junction point where the Montreal and Toronto routes diverged.