ALPS printer

[SkipGear]

I have Corel 7 and X4. Corel 7 (Corel Suite) will open back to CDR 5.0 and X4 will open back to CDR7 files. Is there a way to convert from Corel 3 forward? It looks like Corel 5 might have used a new file format not compatible with the older versions.

[CoalPorter]

Is an HP Office Jet printer as laser printer?

Has anyone talked to HP about making white?

[Zox]

According to this thread on the CorelDraw.com forum:

http://coreldraw.com/forums/t/15384.aspx

...it should be possible to open a version 3 file in versions up to at least X3.

[TiVoPrince]

Confirmation 
that I have way too much stuff.  Found my CorelDRAW! V.2 CDs on the archives.  Probably only looked at a couple thousand discs to find it.  Seems willing to load on my XP machine although it has a rather 'Windows3' feel to it...

[peteski]

I've always used CorelDraw to output to the Alps.  I always keep a couple of versions of software, just in case there are kinks in the new version.  CDR8 was very stable and works for my primary needs: etching patterns and printing artwork.  But I also have CDR12 and use both interchangeably.

You can access all physical ports of the host hardware through VMWare.  Connecting the Alps to the parallel port isn't an issue.

I also mostly use Corel Draw to print on my Alps.  But for troubleshooting purposes I asked if you tried printing from another application (to see if maybe something got messed up in Corel).

I have old printers as well, and they can be picked up on the secondary market for pennies on the dollar as well.  It would be simple and inexpensive to dedicate one to white toner use, and make it a network device if necessary.

But this will only allow you to make white decals (not color decals with white undercoat).  So it is not very useful.  I suppose you could split the artwork for full color decals and print the white undercoat on the white-toner printer and then the color part on a separate decal sheet using a color laser printer. Then you would need to stack both decals on the model for a full color decal with white undercoat. But that is a bit of a pain to deal with.

I might hit you up for a copy of your CDR3 CD.  CDR8 opens legacy CDR files, but only so far back.  I've used the product since CDR2 and could use the old copy to open some archived artwork.

Sure. Just email me (you too Marc) and we'll make this happen. My email address is listed in my profile.
I was able to install version 3 on a Win 98 machien but I'm not sure how it will handle XP. Also remember that there is no uninstall option.  If needed, you will have to manually remove all the files and possibly change the Registry settings.

[peteski]

I have Corel 7 and X4. Corel 7 (Corel Suite) will open back to CDR 5.0 and X4 will open back to CDR7 files. Is there a way to convert from Corel 3 forward? It looks like Corel 5 might have used a new file format not compatible with the older versions.

Tony, I have Corel 3, 7, 10 and 12.  Between those versions I was able to read and convert all my Corel 2 files to the current format (Um, Corel 12 format).  IIRC, some files took couple of steps to do.

[bbussey]

I was on the road today at a client, but I finished the VMWare/NT4 installation when I got home.  Installed SP6 so that I could install VMWare Tools (and get a proper screen resolution), then added all my railroad fonts.  Installed the virtual parallel port and linked it to the physical port.  Opened the graphic in CDR8 and printed to the Alps.  It paused about ten seconds between each printhead pass, but the artwork printed perfectly with solidly opaque white.  I'd forgotten how good the white looked when printed through the NT driver.  So my problems are solved for now regarding white, silver or gold decals.

Pete, I did try printing from Adobe Acrobat a few days ago, same issues.

I'm not concerned about color graphics over a printed white background, since it's not as if an Alps ever did opaque color lettering well (such as yellow print on a brown boxcar).  If I need color graphics, I just print them on the color laser.  More durable and higher resolution.

I'll take you up on the CDR3 at some point.  I would just install it on the virtual NT workstation, which mimics the hardware I used for it back in the day.  You can install multiple versions of CDR on a computer, so that isn't an issue.

[ljudice]

Has anyone talked to HP about making white?

Unless it's either high volume (millions of units) or high value (millions of $$), HP isn't interested...

- Lou  [former hp marketing director]

[peteski]

I was on the road today at a client, but I finished the VMWare/NT4 installation when I got home.  Installed SP6 so that I could install VMWare Tools (and get a proper screen resolution), then added all my railroad fonts.  Installed the virtual parallel port and linked it to the physical port.  Opened the graphic in CDR8 and printed to the Alps.  It paused about ten seconds between each printhead pass, but the artwork printed perfectly with solidly opaque white.  I'd forgotten how good the white looked when printed through the NT driver.  So my problems are solved for now regarding white, silver or gold decals.

The pauses happen for several reasons.   In my experience they will happen if the ambient temperature is above certain threshold (the printer cools the head down after each band printed).  They also happen when using VPhoto mode.   The pause might also be dependant on the version of the driver used (I have not verified this).

I'm confused about the varying quality of white and metallic printouts you mention.  Regardless of the driver (or operating system) used, the quality should be the same.  I have used many versions of Alps drivers and I have not noticed any difference in print quality.  As long as the artwork is solid black, the white or metallic ink coverage should be solid.  Only when the artwork is not solid black, you might start seeing the white and metallic inks printed as 85 lpi halftones (no longer solid ink coverage).  Often your artwork is black but somewhere between your design and the printer, something gets modified (usually by using color profiles in your graphic program for example) where the "black" seen by the printer is not solid black.

Pete, I did try printing from Adobe Acrobat a few days ago, same issues.

Ok, I just wanted to make sure you tried printing from another application. 

I'm not concerned about color graphics over a printed white background, since it's not as if an Alps ever did opaque color lettering well (such as yellow print on a brown boxcar).  If I need color graphics, I just print them on the color laser.  More durable and higher resolution.

You seem to be a seasoned Alps user but the above statement makes me think that you don't realize that in order to get opaque colors from Alps you need to undercoat them with white ink first.  That produces opaque decals (just like professionally printed decals) where even light colors show up well against dark model's surface.  Alps CYM inks are translucent (just like inks or toners in inkjet or laser printers). That is why the white undercoat is needed to make the colors opaque.

If a single layer of white undercoat is not enough, you can print multiple layers of white (each adds opacity), then print the color image on top.  Personally in majority of decals I find that single layer of white undercoat is perfectly acceptable (even when the decal is applied to a dark colored surface).

I'll take you up on the CDR3 at some point.  I would just install it on the virtual NT workstation, which mimics the hardware I used for it back in the day.  You can install multiple versions of CDR on a computer, so that isn't an issue.

Ok, just let me know....

BTW, I dug up the info about white laser printer toner: http://www.atttransfer.com/whitetoner.html  (and they are in Joisy!)   

[bbussey]

The pauses happen for several reasons.   In my experience they will happen if the ambient temperature is above certain threshold (the printer cools the head down after each band printed).  They also happen when using VPhoto mode.   The pause might also be dependant on the version of the driver used (I have not verified this).

Nope, in this case it's due to VMWare interpreting the driver functionality and passing it through to the Windows7 host.  The printer didn't pause that way when it was connected to an actual NT Workstation, and doesn't pause when running from any of the XP workstations.  So it has to be the VMWare interpretation.  I don't care if it takes a half hour to print, as long as the quality is there.  It's not as if I'm printing volume.  I'm printing half a sheet at best.

I'm confused about the varying quality of white and metallic printouts you mention.  Regardless of the driver (or operating system) used, the quality should be the same.  I have used many versions of Alps drivers and I have not noticed any difference in print quality.  As long as the artwork is solid black, the white or metallic ink coverage should be solid.  Only when the artwork is not solid black, you might start seeing the white and metallic inks printed as 85 lpi halftones (no longer solid ink coverage).  Often your artwork is black but somewhere between your design and the printer, something gets modified (usually by using color profiles in your graphic program for example) where the "black" seen by the printer is not solid black.
Ok, I just wanted to make sure you tried printing from another application.  :)You seem to be a seasoned Alps user but the above statement makes me think that you don't realize that in order to get opaque colors from Alps you need to undercoat them with white ink first.  That produces opaque decals (just like professionally printed decals) where even light colors show up well against dark model's surface.  Alps CYM inks are translucent (just like inks or toners in inkjet or laser printers). That is why the white undercoat is needed to make the colors opaque.

If a single layer of white undercoat is not enough, you can print multiple layers of white (each adds opacity), then print the color image on top.  Personally in majority of decals I find that single layer of white undercoat is perfectly acceptable (even when the decal is applied to a dark colored surface).

My point is that I don't print color decals to be applied over non-white surfaces, as I've never liked the quality.  I've done it before, such as when I did the mock-ups for the Tomorrows Children charity cars with the cameo photos.  But if I print black and/or color decals, I'll use the laser printer because it's going over white anyway (such as my Chiquita fruit mural container or Snuggle mural trailer)  and the quality/resolution is far better.  The Alps prints at 600dpi max, while an HP color LaserJet prints at 2400dpi.  For me, the Alps are good for lettering/striping in white, silver metallic, gold metallic, silver foil and gold foil.  Any other colors I can print on the laser.



As an example, the refrigerator unit markings were printed by an HP LaserJet on white decal paper.  The "stickers" and "labels" were printed in color while the surrounding areas were printed in black.  I then cut out a rectangle the dimensions of the reefer unit, which was painted black, and applied.  Same thing with the reflector stripes on the chassis.



At 2400dpi, you're hard-pressed to see the pixels no matter how close you get.

[SkipGear]

In the instances show, yes the laser or inkjet will do better but that is the only time. The alps only limitation is when there are color gradients. If you are doing solid colors, like most of the railroad logos, I think it's resolution and color rendering beat a laser.

A laser is not going to do this for you...











Everything above was done with the Alps. No commercial decals were sacraficed in the painting of those loco's.

[peteski]

Byan,
now I understand where you're coming from.  You are only using certain features of Alps. You also tried using certain features of Alps (halftones full-color printing) which Alps does not handle very well.  I guess we all have different methods and techniques.  I mainly use Alps to print solid-colored images with white undercoat for opacity. If the colors I need are different than the standard solid CYMK colors: black, red, green, blue, yellow, magenta and cyan, I have to print multiple layers of inks to obtain the desired color. I avoid halftone printing.  I learned many unconventional Alps printing techniques by participating on the Alps Yahoo groups I pointed you to earlier.

I also have to agree with Tony: While other printers handle gradiated colors much better than Alps, no ink jet or laser printer can match the sharp color demarcation of Alps thermal printing technology.

As far as the decals you show, if you use Vphoto mode and select Vphoto film (not decal paper) as the media, the 190 lpi halftone resolution gives similar results to the Lexmark Universal PS3 color laser I have access to. Both Alps and laser printouts (of images similar to the ones in your examples) will show visible halftone patterns (if you magnify them enough).

Alps has 3 halftone resolutions.


The 190 lpi is quite usable in N scale. Remember, even cars from Micro Trains or even your Tomorrow's Children car will show the halftoning in the image when magnified large enough. That is just a limitation of halftoned CYMK printing.

As far as the dpi ratings for printers go, those are often not real numbers but more of a marketing pitch.
For example MD-5000 is touted as a 2400 dpi printer. Well, in reality it is still a 600dpi printer (physical imitation of its print head) but the size of the printed dots can be controlled to be as small as the dots on a 2400 dpi printer.  For some  specific numbers, the size of a 600 dpi dot is 0.00167" but Alps can modulate the heat while printing, to get a dot as small as 0.00042" (which is the dot size in 2400 dpi printers) but the spacing between the dots is still 0.00167"

With Alps' white undercoated decals there is not need to paint the model white then have the actual color of the model printed on the decal area surrounding the markings (like you did on the refrigerator unit's markings).  You could have made the Alps artwork using solid colors closest to the colors you needed (in that size, even if the colors weren't an exact match, it would be very difficult to tell), then print them out on clear film using white undercoat first.  That way you could have then just applied them directly to the black painted refrigerator unit. No need to go through all the gyrations you had to perform with your laser-printed decals.

But I guess, we are both in our comfort zones and like to stay in them.   

[bbussey]

It's not a matter of comfort zone, it's a matter of requirements.  I haven't had the need to create decals for non-white models because conventional decals exist for everything I've done.  Mural trailers for the most part are large decals applied to white sides, so that's easy to replicate in N.  And the HP LaserJet technology has been modulating print dot sizes for decades on their hi-rez output to smooth it out and hide pixelization, far better than conventional CMYK printing, so I disagree that the Alps smoothing cannot be matched.  So if I'm printing murals, or billboards, there is no reason to account for a non-white background.  And, unlike the Alps, the HP LaserJets are true 2400dpi printers.

The refrigerator unit was painted black.  The decals were printed on an HP color LasetJet onto white (not clear) decal paper.  The black toner, which simulated the sides of the refrigerator unit not covered with markings, blended into the paint perfectly.  Same thing with the reflective striping on the chassis side and the reverse lights and tail lights on the back.  Nothing on the chassis was pre-painted white, other than the mud flaps which are white on the prototype.  All the white areas visible are white decal film showing through.  No extra effort was required in using decals printed on white decal paper rather than clear decal paper.  In fact, it was one pass through the LaserJet as opposed to multiple passes through the Alps.

That said, using the vphoto functionality to render decals is an interesting option.  Now that I have a fully-functional printer again, I may explore this in the future should the need arise for artwork not available commercially.