Turnout Gauge Fixes

[dmidkiff]

I have a mixture of Micro Engineering and Atlas turnouts on my layout that are out of gauge.  I know people have talked about the problems before, but I was hoping to find some specific instructions on how to fix them.  The only thing I can find relates to removing some spikes to allow the rails to be manipulated.  For those of you that have tweaked the switches, how do you do it?  My thought was to remove the spikes and use CA to fix the stock rails in a better position.  For the point rails, is there an easy way to bend a slight curve in them without breaking the assembly, a pair of pliers?

Any help is appreciated.  Thanks, Doug

[nkalanaga]

In my opinion, a better way to fix the gauge is to get some Micro Engineering "small" spikes, drill holes in the ties, and spike the rails in place.  CA won't stick to the plastic the ties are made of for very long. 

If the gauge problem is in the point area, spikes can't be used on the gauge side of the rail.  In that case, my favorite solution, if the gauge needs to be widened, and if one is comfortable soldering, is to drill a hole on the outside of the rail, insert a brass wire to keep the rail in place, and solder the rail to the wire.  This requires a very small tip and clean iron to keep from melting the ties, but can be done.  If one wants to go to the trouble of filing the blackening off, ME spikes can be soldered, and would hold better while soldering.

As for bending the points, I can't help you, never having had much luck myself.

[MichaelWinicki]

Hey Doug...

Are you having issues with specific locomotives or cars?

I've got a bunch of Atlas code 55 turnouts and I acknowledge there are areas where things aren't 100% correct but if my loco's and cars are guaged properly, then I have no issues.  Typically I've found that many new locos are coming through too narrow.

Now having said that I think folks that run steam can have issues with the area between the points being too tight, and it can force an unweighted pilot to derail.  The weight of rolling stock and locomotives on my layout seem to cause the point to spread just a little in order to avoid derailments.

I've taken a file to the frog area on some #5's, but haven't needed to move a stock rail or adjust the points on any Atlas code 55 switch.

[robert3985]

Have you actually checked the gauge of your turnouts with an NMRA clearance gauge?  To have several turnouts out gauge, both Atlas and ME is a bit too coincidental.

Out of the hundred or more ME and Atlas turnouts used by members in our modular club (now disbanded) we never had a single turnout with gauge problems that wouldn't allow a properly gauged engine to roll through.  If the turnouts were out of gauge, they were always too wide, and stuff rolled through just fine (but with a wiggle).

All engines that hopped the frog were gauged too narrow.  Engines that hopped the points and went the wrong way were also gauged too narrow.

Do only certain engines wiggle or derail through your turnouts?  Do you check the gauge of all engines before running them on your layout?

To fix gauge problems, you cannot assume anything.  That's what the NMRA clearance gauge is for, so you can easily check either track or wheelsets and adjust them so's they'll run reliably.  Remember, properly gauging motive power is not a difficult thing to do, and about 85% of every engine I check has at least one wheelset out of gauge.  I simply assume that every one of them is out of gauge, and I check and adjust each one before running it on my layout.

As far as adjusting your closure point assembly on your turnouts, I use precision flat-nose pliers to do that, making tiny bends until the tracks are bent exactly to my specs.  You could use them to adjust the points on either ME or Atlas turnouts, making several small adjustments alternating the bends from one point to the other until both are curved to your spec.

[mmagliaro]

I'm always surprised at the variety of experiences with Atlas C55 turnouts that I read on forums.  Some people say they
are all fine and they never have a problem, others say they have big gauge problems.

I am in the latter camp, and here is my photographic evidence:




I don't care how you slice it, that is far too narrow through the point rails, and almost any engine I run through
there that is properly gauged will climb right up out of those rails, but the problem is far worse on steam,
and even worse on longer-wheelbase steam like a 4-8-4, because there is a long rigid frame and less
"forgiveness".

I had almost identical issues with ME turnouts when I used them.  And I would say that 75% of the Atlas turnouts
I buy have this problem (almost all #7's).

As for suggestions on fixing this, here is what I do. 

1. I do not try to spread rails, glue or hold them, or anything of that nature.
2. I use a diamond drum in a Dremel tool, and actually grind back the inside faces of the rails to
open up the gauge a little more.  In cases where a drum just won't fit, I use diamond jewelers files
and I painstakingly file back the faces.  Sometimes it's the stock rail, and sometimes it is a point rail
that has to be ground/filed.  It depends on where it is out of gauge.

If you look at the rails on the Atlas turnouts, you will see that often the point rails or the stock rails are
irregularly wide, and in fact, filing them narrower just makes them normal width, so it's perfectly okay
to file them.

As for bending the point rails, I don't know why you would have to do this.  I file a slight bevel on the tips so that
wheel flanges won't catch on them, and that's all.

OH!  VERY IMPORTANT.  After any grinding or filing, I polish the rail faces and inside edges with 400 grit sandpaper so they are smooth again.
If you skip this step, you will really regret it.  Wheels will sound like they are running through one of those old
motorized knife sharpeners that my mom had in her kitchen where you drag the blade through spinning grinding wheels
to sharpen the knife edge!

I am really happy with the results of just grinding and filing the rails back.  Everything seems to run very nicely through
the turnouts.

[dmidkiff]

Thanks for the responses so far.  I waited until I could run a gauge through everything including locomotives before I responded.  Things I found are that my locos are narrow, I had gauged them once, but I guess sitting in their boxes for a long time changed things.  I also ran it through the switches and the ones that have issues are too narrow.

nkalanaga - I am comfortable with soldering and I believe my ME issues arise from my own doing.  I replace the throwbar with a pc board and remove some of the tie material in the point area for jumper wires.  When I do this, I notice a slight inward curve on the straight stock rail.  It sounds like your brass wire fix may work.

Michael - I have found that my locos are too narrow, so that fix is under way.

robert - Everything that hops does so on the point rails, and you say this is an issue due to the locos being too narrow, which I have found mine that way.  My rolling stock bounces on the frogs since I use Fox Valley metal wheels and the frog opening is too large.  This hasn't caused any derailments though.  I wasn't sure if a pair of pliers would do too much, I will try a set of precision flat nose pliers with tiny bends.

mmagliaro - Your pictures show exactly what I am finding on my Atlas turnouts. I have also noticed that the point rails are very thick and thought about taking a file to them.  The end of the points are also large and I have to file them down to be sharper so wheels don't catch.  Good tip on the sandpaper, I will be sure to do that as well.

Thanks, Doug

[Dave Schneider]

Back in the "good old days" there was an Atlas forum, and I remember numerous questions directed to Atlas about the quality control on their N scale code 55 turnouts. I recall being underwhelmed by the Atlas response to the well documented issues. The issues like the ones Max has shown here were well documented on numerous occasions. In my opinion, turnouts like these should be replaced by Atlas at no cost. Has anyone had any luck with Atlas on this issue? Is this he reason why the code 55 turnouts are current not available?

Best wishes, Dave

[MichaelWinicki]

Back in the "good old days" there was an Atlas forum, and I remember numerous questions directed to Atlas about the quality control on their N scale code 55 turnouts. I recall being underwhelmed by the Atlas response to the well documented issues. The issues like the ones Max has shown here were well documented on numerous occasions. In my opinion, turnouts like these should be replaced by Atlas at no cost. Has anyone had any luck with Atlas on this issue? Is this he reason why the code 55 turnouts are current not available?

Best wishes, Dave

I'll tell ya Dave, I've got switches that show the exact same tendancy that Max was illustrating in his image, i.e. narrowness through the points.  Just for grins I went out to the layout today and ran the NMRA guage through several switches and many were tight in the area of the points.   But it doesn't cause an issue for my dozens of locomotives and hundreds of cars.  I wonder if it's a case of the points flexing outward just a wee-bit to allow the wheel/truck to pass through successfully. 

Whatever it is at least for me it's not an issue.  And it's probably not for many N-scalers using code 55 track/switches– and that's probably why Atlas isn't that concerned about it.  The switches are working fine for most folks.  However in Max's situation he is using steam and maybe the unweighted pilots are being forced off the rails.

[mmagliaro]

That's not a bad theory about the point rails flexing.   I think they do, to some extent.  But to rely on that
is just asking for trouble.

In my case, the problem is rarely the pilot wheels.
Usually, the drivers climb right up and out, because the rails are physically just too darn close together.

It think it is a combination of 3 factors.

1. The rails are too close together.
2. I run long steam, like a 4-8-4 with large-diameter drivers.
3. I gauge my wheels in the center of the NMRA gauge notches.  I don't "cheat" and set them on the "narrow side".

You can set the wheels a little narrow, but still have them fit in the NMRA notches.  Sometimes that helps,
and sometimes not, at least for me. 

Setting the wheels a little narrow starts inviting other problems, like the backs of the wheels getting hung up
over the tips of the points.

Honestly, a pre-made turnout should at least be in gauge.  Those things aren't cheap at $13 - $16 each.

[RWCJr]

I have had track gauge problems with the medium radius Peco code80 turnouts (all of my large radius Peco turnouts check out OK). I used the same solution, grinding and filing the inside of the rail.

[MichaelWinicki]

Here's how I gauge my wheelsets...



The flanges reach the deepest spot in the notch.

[robert3985]

Let me tell ya...it's a helluva lot easier to fix turnouts you've made yourself...heat, nudge, hold...cool...it's done