1935 Hiawatha Vestibule Doors.

[wcfn100]

I got my undec '35 coach today (thanks FMV for still gluing it all together  ) and after looking at my CGW pictures, I noticed the vestibule doors differ from the model.  I thought this might be a CGW thing, but then I looked at the builders photo of coach 4400 and there looks to be the same door.  There also appears to be a plate at the bottom of the door which I assume folds down over the steps.

Assuming that the CGW didn't swap out doors over time, car 200 had three doors like the model and one with the large square window.  There's also a picture of car 201 with the square window doors on both ends of one side.  The CGW doors look like they might be a dutch door too.


Do any of the MILW books talk about these doors?

Jason

[skytop35]

Couldn't find anything in my Milwaukee library about the door on #4400. Curiously a photo of car #4400 in orange with maroon stripe and black roof (Milw color guide #1 p.21) sometime in the early 1950's shows the door with the standard arch window. The mystery deepens!

I couldn't find any photos showing a square window in any other coaches. Unfortunately most photos of these cars that I have come across were taken with the coach doors open and it's impossible to see the shape of the window.

The plate at the bottom is not attached to the door. It's a trap door for the steps.

I will keep my eyes open for more photo evidence.

[wcfn100]

Thank you Bill.  When I saw that photo of 4400 in the color book with the arched window door, I decided I should probably just ask those who would know better.  I was able to sneak a peak at The Hiawatha Story on Amazon and it looks like a similar door was on the scale model artist rendering too.  I don't even have guess at this point to whats going on with the doors,  but it'll probably take me a long while to get the ribs on this car so maybe something will show up in the meantime.  Of course now I noticed that the ribs don't extend past the doors on both cars... Lots more to learn I guess.

I'm going to see if there are anymore shots of the CGW cars for my modeling purposes, but if you ever run across anything please let me know.


Jason

[Jim Starbuck]

There are photos of #4400 and #4418 in "The Milwaukee Road Passenger Train Services" by Patric Dorin p.89.
Both show the doors with arch top windows however each photo is of the opposite side of the car shown in the builder's picture so still no real answer.
#4400 is wearing the orange with maroon window band and black roof scheme in my book as well.

Something else I noticed in the builder's photo is the square window is placed high on the door whereas the later pictures of the arch tops line up with the rest  of the windows down the carside and are much lower in the door.
Could the door in the builder's photo have been a temporary fit used only during construction? The reason I suggest that is whenever we would build new homes, we would hang an old beater door during construction and install the finish door as one of the final things. It saved the good door from being all dinged and scratched while hauling tools and materials in and out. Just a thought.

[wcfn100]

Could the door in the builder's photo have been a temporary fit used only during construction? The reason I suggest that is whenever we would build new homes, we would hang an old beater door during construction and install the finish door as one of the final things. It saved the good door from being all dinged and scratched while hauling tools and materials in and out. Just a thought.

There may be something to that because all the pictures I can clearly make out the square window door appear to be cars not in service.  The CGW one's look to be post service with how bad they are faded. 



Jason

[jmlaboda - RIP]

The door on CGW 200 in the shot from the John Campbell Collection from Don Ross' webiste shows a door though similar but not quite the same, the window sits a couple inches lower than the builder's photo and is a dutch door .  More than likely it from a heavyweight car.  It is possible that after the prototype was built the door was replaced with the new style of door that was in-line with the side windows to better its appearance.

Photos of other MILW coaches from the same series shows the door type found on the FVM model, even into the era where trains from UP were operated via the line and I would suspect that this was indeed the correct door for the cars.

[wcfn100]

I would suspect that this was indeed the correct door for the cars.

No one has said otherwise.  I'm just trying to figure out what doors to model on my CGW car.  Unfortunately shots like you posted of the #200 don't appear to be on CGW property anymore so I don't know how to figure them in to the equation.

I think at this point, I'll just remake the arched window doors and since I'll be modeling them open they won't be as noticeable anyway and should be easily replaced if I find out something different down the line. 

Thanks for the help.

Jason