So I used Iso to clean a poor weathering job..

[nuno81291]

I used some isopropyl to clean off pan pastels from a piece of rolling stock. I had previously applied oil/turpentine washes and several coats of dullcote. It left a horrendous white/off white glaze of sorts. All was lost I thought, until I shot it again with DC out of desperation and voila the glazed looking residue was massively erased. Now I am not quite sure what reaction is going on but I was wondering if the paint/finishing gurus of TRW could help me understand what you can and can not use together as a rule of thumb. From online searching it looks like it is a reaction of ISO and the previous layer of dullcote. Would there have been a better solvent to clean the pastels with that wouldn’t have attacked the dullcote so much? Before ISO I tried soapy water (useless) paint thinner (almost useless) and laquer thinner (better but scared me of ripping off the paint).  Is there a better way? Would using 70 vs 90% be better?

I am still trying to figure out what I can and cannot do with different mediums. For instance using a turpentine oil wash for details/lines doesn’t attack pastel work as much as I thought it would. But a bit of iso and it’s a heaping mess. I haven’t shot DC over acrylic yet but have read that it can destroy acrylic finishes if put on too thick. I’ll state it again however, the new Airbrush is incredible and the ability to control a fine layer of DC is a different league than those rattlecans I had used for years, wow!

[Missaberoad]

Dullcote and iso cause the reaction. There has been a number of articles on using this as a technique for fading...

As you discovered more dullcote reverses it...

https://www.mrhobby.com/store.php?seller=MikeRoseHobbies&pg=6898

[ednadolski]

I'm not sure of anything that will remove pan pastels and not affect any underlying layers.   My main rule of thumb for pan pastels is not to use them at all for anything.   I've never seen any resulting use of them that looked convincing, often they just look like someone was in a hurry to "make it look dirty".   In that case, the result is  of course exactly what one asks for: a dirty-looking model, not a weathered-looking one.  (I haven't seen your model, but the title itself indicates that the pans were part of a "poor" looking weathering job.)

The ISO/Dullcote trick can work, but it is rather limited in its applicability.  It is a chemical reaction that can be hard to control in order to get consistent and/or desired results.  You can sometimes get uneven/splotchy results which are hard to correct.  If you apply additional weathering layers and want to seal them w/the Dullcote, then you risk undoing whatever fade you achieved with the ISO.

ISO can definitely affect the underlying paint and/or lettering.  I've used it myself (90%) to strip paint from Kato models.... it worked really well for that

Ed

[hegstad1]

Soap and water will remove Pan Pastels.

[peteski]

Soap and water will remove Pan Pastels.

Dish-washing detergent (like Dawn) and warm water works even better than soap. 

[nuno81291]

I must have forgotten that I dullcoated over the pastel because dawn+warm water didn’t do anything so far as removal of pastel is concerned. The 70% iso made short work of the unwanted pastel. As far as pastels being useful I submit Mike Confalone’s results/work. Many of his specimens are quite convincing IMO. Great for dusty related colors. That said I messed around with some extra black paint I was airbrushing and added some sort of shading as accumulated grime on a test subject and it was very convincing. I also accidentally let too much paint through in the process ruining that effect so I think a medium is only as good as the hand it’s in.

[ednadolski]

As far as pastels being useful I submit Mike Confalone’s results/work. Many of his specimens are quite convincing IMO.

I'd love to see that, do you have any links?  (IIRC he just does a for-purchase video series, perhaps that is why I've not seen it)

Ed

[nuno81291]

Yes I purchased his series from MRH, the various individual threads there show some of the results versus out of the box models but no in process photos iirc. I have also seen photos from a friend who operates on his layout. But most of my observation is the video series of rolling stock and locomotive weathering. I agree with your initial post that pastels can quickly become a mess. I was always inspired by his layout so purchasing his layout building and weathering series was quite helpful. I would say I learned a lot as a relative newbie. I was following a proto photo but got ham fisted. I’ll be posting photos of the build in my layout thread soon so fellow members can have a laugh at my first loco weathering attempt. It’s too bad I didn’t take photos before the salvage job

[ednadolski]

So is this an example:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/resize/users/joef/02_Weathering-Confalone-Engelhard-750x422.jpg

I can't tell from just the one rather low-res image if this was pan pastels or not.  If it was, I'd call it one of the better applications that I have seen, but still not as convincing that it could have been.   Sans a proto pic, it looks to me like the streaking could be better defined, the lettering is not faded enough, and there are some areas that are too clean-looking. 

Generally speaking, I think that pan pastels are better suited to HO than N.  The pans seem to my eye have a more coarse 'resolution' which is easier to accept on a larger model.  (This is also true of some techniques that use a lot of powders, such as PKS.)  With artists paints you can achieve much more control and detail, as evidenced in this great work by @tom mann :

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/6/11-220518200402-5987501.jpeg


Ed

[ednadolski]

OK I found this one which looks like MC did mostly (if not entirely) with the pans:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/sites/model-railroad-hobbyist.com/files/resize/users/joef/02b_Weathering-Confalone-BM-GP38-2-part2-750x422.jpg

Again, while this is just one low-res pic, to me it doesn't look much different than the kind of results one might expect from any other kind of weathering powder. Weathering patterns on the prototype simply do not look much like this; they are far more subtle and detailed as you can see in the proto pics:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/79421/7'28'83%20BASE%20pwr%20211-409-231%20E.Dfld.,MA.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/30368/x%20xxxx.jpg

As before, I don't see anything in these results that makes me want to go out and try out a set of the pans, nor pay to see any of his weathering videos.  (I much prefer to wait for Tom's next book).

Ed