Caution when you see "X is UL Listed/Rated/Certified"

[$2 Bill]

UL is Underwriters Laboratories now know as UL Solutions is a Safety Org like CSA TÜV and others worldwide. Their testing is for things shocking you to burning down your house but Not for a power supply being safe for other devices including any model trains. Even 50+ year old "Train Set" bricks from Tyco AHM and many others have UL and often CSA Marks just to have Business Liability Insurance to sell things in the US and Canada.

These Safety Marks Do Not mean anything to Quality of a Product. Anyone claiming otherwise are trying to fool you. Many agree that all "Train Set" bricks are "Trash level" products no matter how well their really made But any UL/CSA Marked product is likely way better then most Knockoffs and Counterfeit Crap now Flooding the Markets.

⚠️ There are Huge Problems with Counterfeit UL and Other Marks. Real UL Marks now often have a Number next or in them that you can look up at  https://www.ul.com/software/product-sourcing-and-certifications-database to find out who really made it and the Mark is Valid for the product. FCC Marks can be look up at FCC Gov for same reason.

One big example was Fake UL Marks on many "Hoover Boards" a few years ago that UL Never Tested and at that time UL said will Never Test such Junk.

[Chris333]

Im working on a huge UL panel right now.

[draskouasshat]

Cool story. Why are you here?

[Lemosteam]

The UL mark on a product is a homologation certification, meaning that the product made in or out of the US can be sold here in the US, nothing more.  Similar to the UK and CCC symbols.

It has never been a symbol of Quality, just that it meets the minimum requirements for salability.

[Englewood]

AI is not quite there yet.

[Missaberoad]

Wait? Twitter has a UL rating now? 

[Chris333]

There is a bunch of stuff that needs to be in place before a UL lable can be applied. But yeah it doesn't mean much.

[peteski]

Looks like $2 Bill joined the forum to gives some electrical device warnings.
First about thermal circuit breakers and now UL certifications.  Bill, are you into model railroading, or are you here just to give helpful warnings?

[Chris333]

We do not do a lot of UL panels in our shop, but. Everything used to build it needs to be UL listed. If you use zip tie brackets that aren't listed it won't pass. They also tell us if we run out of wire to save the spool so we can prove the wire is UL wire. And wire shouldn't be bent in a radius more than 5 times it's diameter. In the end mostly the UL is just a sticker. If something is wrong before the sticker we can just fix it. If something is wrong when the sticker is applied we could lose certification or whatever it is called.

[$2 Bill]

Looks like $2 Bill joined the forum to gives some electrical device warnings.
First about thermal circuit breakers and now UL certifications.  Bill, are you into model railroading, or are you here just to give helpful warnings?

I like my trains but can't use them often. Also have a "rare" plastic HO or OO layout I can't find any info. Not even sure how the double tracks were made to fit in such a small space + plus I need to find or make a bridge for it because not a standard length.

Relative to this topic, I have some MRC power units and recently trying to find more data and found MRC vs Rapido Trains. MRC PR statement still on their site and quoted many places like many others claim UL means "Quality..." Not.

Again look at all "Train set" bricks from Tyco, AHM, Bachmann and more, all with UL marks. I and many others have burned out many of those and either "bought a better one" or just shove the whole train in the bin and never bother again. Or just look in your house and find UL attach to many kinds of "junk."

My "Better one" is MRC Railine 300 but sadly & quickly found out just same Resistive setup as Tyco brick that it replaced and Both are UL listed. Worse, MRC melted the plastic case to attach many parts including the high watt resistor. It jammed after a few days but fixed by me because lived in the sticks back then. I still have it after many years to remind me of the first "burn" by a manufacturer. I'm not impressed by "Quality" of my Tech 2 1400 or 2500 either when looking at the guts. They work but I needed to take them apart to clean the switches etc. (Side Note: Opening a case with Security screws or sticker Do Not Void the Warranty in the U.S.).

I have more data ref to MRC vs Rapido Trains problems because isn't just a "fight" between them. Anyone running DC with or without DCC can have problems not just the few Warranty Issues covered by Rapido in other thread(s). Even DCC controllers etc that Passed FCC UL etc or Many using power bricks from other things to run accessories can have same problems. That for electrical section if I get time.

The other post for the PDF is to update the link because that was first page Google had to lookup the Breakers for the Tech 2 units. Many things have glass thermal breakers but very hard to find data. Even GM use them in some cars with motors to run flip up Headlights.

[peteski]

https://www.dynamicrep.com/blog/what-is-a-ul-certification-and-why-does-it-matter
But that to me doesn't guarantee to the end user that the UL certified device is of highest quality.

[$2 Bill]

We do not do a lot of UL panels in our shop, but. Everything used to build it needs to be UL listed. If you use zip tie brackets that aren't listed it won't pass. They also tell us if we run out of wire to save the spool so we can prove the wire is UL wire. And wire shouldn't be bent in a radius more than 5 times it's diameter. In the end mostly the UL is just a sticker. If something is wrong before the sticker we can just fix it. If something is wrong when the sticker is applied we could lose certification or whatever it is called.

Sounds like your shop is doing something large for some industry. There are Different Levels of UL...

https://www.dynamicrep.com/blog/what-is-a-ul-certification-and-why-does-it-matter
But that to me doesn't guarantee to the end user that the UL certified device is of highest quality.

You get it!

UL for Retail items are often the whole thing tested by UL or the company authorize to Test like most "power strips" sold everywhere. While you can find Very High Quality power blocks/bars/strips, there's a lot of crap even when have "surge protection" and/or Breaker on them and all have UL.

But for 120/240VAC Breaker Boxes and more electrical at home, those need to be UL listed and other rated but Installing is covered under NEC and Local Building, Electrical and/or Fire Codes. Inspections are often done by Local Code Inspectors and Fail means different things depending just why their inspections are happening. Fail may mean just fix it then reinspect to No Certificate of Occupancy or No/Cancelled Building Insurance.

Example: For many jobs when I was Installing Network and Telecom, the wires etc are UL but also have to meet Fire Codes for the area to install. Many with drop ceilings need high cost "Plenum Cable" because the space above the tiles are often Return Path for the HVAC and require "Fire proof" cables. If an Inspector sees wrong cable then can shutdown the area to the entire building until the wire is replace and reinspected. If had a Fire with wrong cable then huge lawsuits and worse problems as Insurance can Void the Policy, Company and everyone suing, even criminal problems.