Silver Solder

[mike_lawyer]

Hey guys -

Working on my Fast Track turnouts and installing them, and I have had a couple solder joints at the points fail through use.  I know silver solder is much stronger and would like to use some just on the points of the turnouts.  Can anyone recommend a supplier of silver solder I could order?  Thanks!

[woodone]

I really do not think you want true silver solder. Silver solder takes a very high tem to melt .
You can get silver bearing solder, that solder has about 2% silver which will make it stronger and still melt with soldering iron .
Are dear friends at RS has it in two sizes. It flows better too.

[TrainCat2]

Stay Brite Silver Solder. When soldering items for RC Giant Scale like cables/music wire/landing gear/brass/etc, this is what we typically use. Much stronger than regular solder and the flux is one of the best I have used (not recommended for electronics).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015H6JYS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AAN6J6M4AQRAV&th=1

[mike_lawyer]

I really do not think you want true silver solder. Silver solder takes a very high tem to melt .
You can get silver bearing solder, that solder has about 2% silver which will make it stronger and still melt with soldering iron .
Are dear friends at RS has it in two sizes. It flows better too.

Right, I should have been more clear.  I need silver-bearing solder that will be a stronger bond.

[wazzou]

https://www.hnflux.com/page5.html

[robert3985]

What you're looking for is "Silver Bearing Solder" and the best is coreless 96/4 Tin/Silver solder, which is 5 to 6 times stronger than regular tin/lead solder or leadless varieties you get at Radio Shack or The Home Depot, or Lowes, etc.

You should also change your flux to Superior No. 30 Supersafe soldering flux, which is the very best...let me repeat that...THE VERY BEST soldering flux made for building PCB turnouts, or brass/nickel silver/copper/bronze models.  This flux completely changed my soldering experience, and I know how to solder and have been doing it since I was a kid taught by my electrical engineer father using conventional materials and methods.

You can (and should) buy both here: https://www.hnflux.com/page22.html  I recommend getting the "gel" version, even if it eventually turns to liquid, an also getting an applicator bottle or two. If you need your flux to stay in place, then a container of the "paste" is also a good buy.

I've been using both Superior No. 30 Supersafe flux and their 96/4 silver-bearing solder since the early 1980's to build over a thousand PCB turnouts.

Although washing your turnouts is a good idea, and I do it even using Superior No. 30 Supersafe flux which is self-neutralizing when I'm done with each turnout, when I need to make an in-place turnout repair, I don't wash those solder joints because whats surrounding them is painted, ballasted and weathered...and I've never seen any signs of acid eating away anything, nor signs of corrosion.

Photo (1) - PCB Turnouts on Paper Templates Showing Applicator Bottle of Superior No. 30 Supersafe Flux:


Photo (2) - PCB Turnout Getting Closure Point Rails & Throwbars Added Showing Roll of 96/4 Tin/Silver Silver-Bearing Solder:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

Hey guys -

Working on my Fast Track turnouts and installing them, and I have had a couple solder joints at the points fail through use.  I know silver solder is much stronger and would like to use some just on the points of the turnouts.  Can anyone recommend a supplier of silver solder I could order?  Thanks! (emphasis mine - RGG)

If you'll post photos of your solder failures at your closure point rail toes...at the throwbar... as well as how you're hinging, or not hinging, them...as well as the position of any additional PCB ties, maybe I can give you some advice that will cure the closure point rail toe/throwbar solder joint failure problem since I suffered from that for years before I found an answer.

Oh...and you should use 96/4 Silver Bearing Solder on ALL your solder joints on your future turnouts, not just at the throwbars.  Just sayin'....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Bill H]

Stay Brite Silver Solder. When soldering items for RC Giant Scale like cables/music wire/landing gear/brass/etc, this is what we typically use. Much stronger than regular solder and the flux is one of the best I have used (not recommended for electronics).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015H6JYS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AAN6J6M4AQRAV&th=1

Have to agree with boB about the Staybrite silver bearing solder and also completely agree with Robert about the No 30 SuperSafe flux. Best flux I have ever used. I use the Staybrite to solder my throwbars and have yet to have a single one fail in over 20 years of use. Both products are highly recommended.

Kind regards,
Bill

[mike_lawyer]

If you'll post photos of your solder failures at your closure point rail toes...at the throwbar... as well as how you're hinging, or not hinging, them...as well as the position of any additional PCB ties, maybe I can give you some advice that will cure the closure point rail toe/throwbar solder joint failure problem since I suffered from that for years before I found an answer.

Oh...and you should use 96/4 Silver Bearing Solder on ALL your solder joints on your future turnouts, not just at the throwbars.  Just sayin'....

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Thanks Bob for the tips and the link for the silver bearing solder and the flux.  I am going to order some today so that I can use it on my upcoming turnout builds.  I was able to fix the throwbar issue that I had, but it took a lot of work with the turnout in place.  One of the issues was that the PCB ties sold by Fast Tracks are not as thick as the Quickstick ties.  If you have to replace the drawbar (which I had to in this case), unless you shim under the PCB tie, you run the risk of solder getting between the point rail and the divergent rail.  This happened to me, and I had to clean everything up to make sure there was no residual solder on either rail so that the rails did not solder together.   

I find that the Fast Tracks solder is sometimes not strong enough on the points, especially after you file down the points so they are nice and tight.  I am looking forward to trying out the silver bearing solder. 

Mike

[Bill H]

Mike:
it is actually helpful that the throwbar is thinner than the ties, otherwise it will rub on the roadbed, unless the roadbed is cut away. Besides, you should shim the throwbar tightly to keep it from moving when soldering the points to the throwbar as you are soldering one point at a time. I keep a specific shim on hand as this also has to be done even when removing the turnout from the FastTracks template, if you are using those.

Kind regards,
Bill

[robert3985]

An easy way to make sure that solder only goes where you want it is to mark a line, or color an area with a plain old HB lead pencil.  I always scribble on my throwbars where I don't want the solder to go with my trusty yellow pencil, and it doesn't go there.  Additionally, the graphite acts as a lubricant for the top of the PCB throwbar rubbing against the bottom of the railfoot...so, it serves two functions.

Also, I use the eraser on my yellow pencil to scrub the copper cladding on PCB ties I'm going to use on my turnout as I'm building it.  This gets rid of oxidation and gives the copper a tiny bit of "tooth" and makes the solder adhere to it better.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[wazzou]

@robert3985
Curious, who's PCB Ties do you prefer or do you shear your own?

[robert3985]

@robert3985
Curious, who's PCB Ties do you prefer or do you shear your own?

@wazzou Way back when, before ME had made a RTR injection molded turnout, Rail Craft offered hand-built turnouts on PCB ties for sale.  I bought a couple to see how making turnouts was done, and they were pretty sad examples of turnout making.  Initially, I bought my PCB ties from Clover House, then my buddy at my LHS called me up and told me that Rail Craft (not yet ME) was getting out of the hand-built turnout business and was wanting to sell their entire stock of 1' long PCB tie material.  So, I bought all they had for around $50 bucks if I remember correctly. When it came, it was zip-tied into a "log" of PCB ties that was about 3" in diameter...so, I still have about 1.5" in diameter of that "log" left, which will probably outlast me.

It's one of the reasons I don't hesitate to add PCB ties where I want extra strength on my turnouts.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore