Ribbed-back wheels in N scale

[nkalanaga]

These, and other iron wheels, have been banned from interchange for decades, but were very common before WW II.  The only ones I know of in N scale were the 1970s/80s KD/MT pizza-cutter 3-piece wheelsets. 

Anybody have an idea how to make these, with metal wheels, affordably?  They can't easily be turned, the way most of today's better metal wheels are.  The only way I can think of is a plastic center, with the ribs, as they have to be insulated anyway, with a metal rim.  But the rim, if made to scale, would probably be too thin to easily assemble, and turning the wheel profile into a thicker rim after assembly might melt the plastic. 

Modeling 1974, all I'd want these for is ancient company service cars.  But the steam-era modelers would be able to use a lot of them.

[nickelplate759]

Kadee/MT made at least a few out of cast metal - on a plastic axle.  I have exactly one wheelset made this way, but there must be more somewhere.

[Mark5]

All a lot of the original Kadee MT wheelsets were metal with the ribs. I still have quite a few of them. I could give you some if you don't mind the ridiculous flanges. 
(Corrected per following post)

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Maybe MTL could offer some without the pizza option now that they are back in the metal wheel game ...

[pmpexpress]

Sold in blister carded packages of twelve factory assembled wheel-sets that were never found on any Kadee produced rolling-stock, the early Kadee N Gauge (i.e., not a typo, as early production Kadee Quality Products blister cards actually had the word "gauge" rather than "scale" printed on them) stock number MT-1057 had black Delrin plastic axles and cast metal rib backed wheels, which have the propensity to corrode over time.

Mark5 has kindly uploaded a photo of a Kadee N Gauge MT-1057 wheel-set with a stock number MT-1000 Bettendorf truck with its factory assembled MT-5 Magne-Matic knuckle coupler (which was introduced in 1968) and draft gear box screwed to the Delrin truck frame with a steel screw during the assembly process.

[ncbqguy]

The tooling would be tricky, but the engineering plastic axle could include rib detail on an extended axle shoulder that sets the back-to-back gauge of the wheel set assembly.  It would still be a screw machine made wheel but with a recess to receive the ribbed shoulder.
Probably worth doing as these wheels lasted into the early diesel era.
Charlie Vlk

[peteski]

Like Neville mentioned, the early Kadee Micro Trains Line wheels were blackened Zinc-alloy castings (made in a 2-part mold, with the rib detail cast on the back of the wheel) with a hole in its center, Those were installed on a Celcon axle with pointy ends.  They likely used the same alloy and blackening process that they used on their metal underframes.  It was prone to oxidation.

Next iteration of those wheelsets had the wheels molded in Celcon.  They used 2-part mold.  The wheel's face had a integral pointy axle end molded, and the back had the ribs molded in it. Wheels on the inner side had a blind hole in the center. Those used diecast blackened axles.

The next generation of wheels was single piece, all Delrin plastic.  They used 4-part mold:  Outside faces, and 2-parts for the inner wheel faces and the axle.  These (and any subsequent iterations of MTL wheels) have smooth backs.

The current MTL metal wheels went back to the original design.  The wheels are diecast Zinc alloy, installed on Celcon axles.  These actually have some relief molded in the back of the wheels. MTL could theoretically make a new mold with ribbed-back if they so desire.

[nkalanaga]

Peteski:  Thank you!  I've never seen the new MT metal wheels, but, as you said, if they're cast, there's no reason they can't make them with ribs.  I do wonder how hard it would be to keep a cast wheel clean.

Charlie:  I hadn't thought of doing it that way, but it would work, and with the plastic axle, insulation would be easy, and the gauge would be guaranteed.  The wheel should be as round as any of the modern turned wheels.  That might be the best way to go.  It wouldn't be any harder to assemble than putting an insulating bushing in a standard wheel.

Neville and Mark5:  Interesting history.  I bought my first MT-5s in the very early 70s, but apparently too late to get any of the metal wheels.  Even back then, I preferred to body-mount my couplers, mostly because it was cheaper to buy just the unassembled couplers, and reuse the existing trucks!

Mark5:  Thank you, but you can keep them.  I have a bunch of the plastic ribbed wheels, and the only use I have for them is on company service (MOW) cars.  Since they're basically scenery anyway, painted plastic works fine.  The treads would be rusty anyway!

[pmpexpress]

Neville and Mark5:  Interesting history.  I bought my first MT-5s in the very early 70s, but apparently too late to get any of the metal wheels.  Even back then, I preferred to body-mount my couplers, mostly because it was cheaper to buy just the unassembled couplers, and reuse the existing trucks!

Although they were never shipped with any production rolling-stock, way ahead of their time in-so-far as factory installed N-Scale body mounted draft gear was concerned, beginning in the late 1960s (as stock number MT-1040, which were initially priced at $1.50 each) and into the 1980s (as stock number 1024), Kadee Quality Products marketed blister carded packages of blackened cast zinc-alloy forty foot boxcar under-frames with Magne-Matic knuckle couplers (stock number MT-5 for the MT-1040 under-frames and stock number 1025 for the 1024 under-frames) that were fastened to the chassis by a pair of screws.

[nkalanaga]

I still have a few of those, in their original packaging.  In fact, I used one last year!

Last spring, just before everything shut down, we had a train show here, and I bought an ancient ConCor 40 ft boxcar, simply because it was CB&Q, and would go well with my late-60s GN pair.  This one turned out to have a plastic underframe, from an Atlas(!) boxcar, that didn't fit.  So I put one of the KD frames in it.  Not original equipment, but it is from the same era.

[Ron McF]

sorry - couldn't upload photo