N scale steam

[Mike C]

I have that RR steamer in HO and is sitting on my layout right now.It started making a squealing noise a few minuets after I would start running it.I never did take it in to have it looked at.Now there are only a few shops open.Love the detail.Always wanted the Big boy but this is close in size.

   @cjp53  It sounds like the motor bearings are dry . Just a tiny drop of oil on each bearing should fix it ........Mike

[randgust]

After a lot of messing around with assorted and unrelated N scale steam, I think it's Victor Miranda's rule that needs restated even if inaccurately:  N scale engine performance is directly related to pickup.   Add an exponent if steam, which is my rule.

Many of the legitimate 'turds' in steam performance can be remedied if you can figure out a way to get all-wheel, no-wiper, end-axle pickup off a tender.  And as much as I think wires between loco and tender are a pain, they still work better than a collection of phosphor-bronze pickup wipers with a miniscule contact area on a metal drawbar pin.

Get the tender to work right, and now you aren't dependent on the locomotive for pickup, and traction tires aren't a liability.

Get rid of axle pickup wipers so that you're not dragging around a boat anchor.   

Don't deliberately hotwire the trucks if you have pickup ears as that equalization over the end-axles by springing is a huge advantage.

I've made a regular practice of rebuilding tenders with Kato caboose trucks for 4-wheel to achieve that.   And since I (mostly) model ATSF, Dirk's tenders come with all-wheel, end-axle pickups by design in the multi-axle designs, which is just feakin' amazing in terms of results, even if they weren't some of the best resin and print work I've ever seen.

[nkalanaga]

Wires between the tender and loco are a pain, if one has to separate the two.  They're not a problem for appearance, if they're designed right.  After all, there are a lot of hoses on the prototype, and the wires can easily be disguised.

[cjp53]

   @cjp53  It sounds like the motor bearings are dry . Just a tiny drop of oil on each bearing should fix it ........Mike

Thanks Mike I'll look at that.

[brokemoto]

it's Victor Miranda's rule that needs restated even if inaccurately:  N scale engine performance is directly related to pickup.

Miranda's Maxim as explained by ke:  "The poor performance of many N scale steam locomotives is almost always directly attributable to poor electrical contact."

That has been my guide since dealing with balky RR, B-mann and TRIX locomotives.  If there were two things that I absolutely loved about the Kato USRA heavy 2-8-2 and the MDC nineteenth century 2-8-0, it was the all wheels live tenders.

Many of the legitimate 'turds' in steam performance can be remedied if you can figure out a way to get all-wheel, no-wiper, end-axle pickup off a tender.

You have far more experience than do I in fiddling with balky N scale steam, but, this has proved the case in my experience.  There was a guy in my area who fiddled with old B-mann and TRIX steam,  He came up with two gems, a re-worked TRIX K-4 and B-mann I-10.  He did change the motors to Katos, but, the main thing that he did was change the tenders to all wheels live.  He said that the projects would have failed without that. I have made winners out of my old MP steam simply by putting SPECTRUM or Kato tenders onto them and hardwiring.  The old MP, and even the first MRC issues of the USRA lights used to stall on straight and level at speeds less than thirty five SMPH simply because of that half wheels live tender.  Once I put a Kato or SPECTRUM behind it, there were no more problems.  In fact, the old MP Mogul, with a Kato or SPECTRUM tender would pull fifteen loaded MT gondolas and an MT wood caboose up a one per-cent grade at fifteen SMPH and neither stall nor slip.  I doubt that the prototype (or closest prototype, an SP M class) could do that.

Finally, MRC got the message and its eight wheeler and Mogul now have all wheels live tenders.


 

as much as I think wires between loco and tender are a pain, they still work better than a collection of phosphor-bronze pickup wipers with a miniscule contact area on a metal drawbar pin.

If nothing else, the stiff wires lose their springy and both stiff wires and contact post get dirty.  I must clean my B-manns from time to time.  This does not happen with the old MPs whose tenders I changed out.  As another poster indicated, you can disguise the wires as hoses.

Get the tender to work right, and now you aren't dependent on the locomotive for pickup, and traction tires aren't a liability.

I suspect that the two reasons that the old MP Mogul used to stall on straight and level at speeds below thirty five SMPH were the half wheels live tender and the compromised contact due to the traction tire on one driver pair.

Get rid of axle pickup wipers so that you're not dragging around a boat anchor.

As you have extensive experience with B-mann, you, of all people, are aware of how much drag that one live front tender truck creates for the USRA 0-6-0/"2-6-2".  It was great in that the locomotive tended to stall less on plastic frog switches, but the thing could not pull more than two cars even on straight and level.  Change out that tender for a SPECTRUM and it is truly amazing what the thing will pull, especially the newer plastic box versions.   

[randgust]

I've experimented with various methods to make the wires thing a little less of a PITA.   I'll search both the loco and tender side looking for a place to put a 00-90 screw in someplace so I can secure one end of the wires with a screw that's accessible from underneath.   On the Jamco, I put 1/16 brass tubing behind the tender deck and made primitive female/male plugs so I could unplug the tender using .010 spring wire soldered on the one end of the wire.   There's also tiny little connectors that Miniatronix has that can be tucked in the tender shell.

One thing I've learned is that pretty much no matter what you do, you will periodically fracture a wire, usually at the solder joint.  So build some slack in there and just live with it.   You'll know when it happens as suddenly the loco will inexplicably stall....

One of the most successful applications I've done of the jumper wires is on the Atlas 4-4-0.   While I couldn't get 8x8 in there, the jumper wires alone greatly improved the reliability.

Miniatronics has 30-gauge ultra flexible stranded wire with black insulation that is my 'go to' material here.

[peteski]

. . .
One thing I've learned is that pretty much no matter what you do, you will periodically fracture a wire, usually at the solder joint.  So build some slack in there and just live with it.   You'll know when it happens as suddenly the loco will inexplicably stall....
. . .
Miniatronics has 30-gauge ultra flexible stranded wire with black insulation that is my 'go to' material here.

Very keen, and accurate observation.
What helps is to make sure none of the strands are nicked while being stripped. Using tip of a soldering iron to strip the wire works well, and a thermal stripper (like Hotweezers) makes it even easier.

I also solve the problem by including a "strain relief" for the wires.  I encapsulate the soldered area of the wire with some 5-minute epoxy.  It is seen in this photo (although not very clearly).  In this example the wires were soldered perpendicular to the end of the connector (to  represent drooping hoses). After soldering, the connector was cleaned (to remove flux), then a blob of was placed over the solder joint area and little more to fully encapsulate the wire. This setup should be problem free for a long time.

[nkalanaga]

Randgust:  Your homemade plugs sound a lot like what I used for MU connectors on diesels, before flywheels and axle-end pickup mad them unnecessary.  A piece of 1/32 inch brass tubing from Special Shapes, a piece of 0.015 brass wire, with a small bend in the middle, and some flexible black insulated wire.  They were small enough that they didn't look too bad, and made a big difference in performance.

They came in three versions:  The black wire soldered perpendicular to the rod, so it hunk down in a loop between the units, for hood units.  Droll a hole in the pilot, and wire the inside end of the tubing to the motor, either directly or through the split frame on newer units.

One with the black wire wrapped around, and then bent parallel to, the pins, for Minitrix F units,  On those, I didn't bother putting two sockets, one end of each wire was hardwired to motor (actually to the insulated-side PC board under the motor).  The socket was in a hole drilled in the frame.

The third style was actually two different pieces, with one of each used to connect an F to a hood unit.  The F end had a hood unit plug n the loose end, and the other piece had one of each style of connector.

Given the early BN's habit of throwing anything available into a consist, a Minitrix F did wonders for pickup, although even that couldn't help many of the early diesels.  I had a ConCor C636 that, even with jumpers, couldn't pull it's own weight!