A Question For Peteski: Or, A Tale of Two V200s

[strummer]

I'm glad that you're having fun Mark. 

         Thank you. It is fun to explore a new (to me) and different field of model railroading.

One thing I noticed is that for you the amount of noise a model makes seems to be a very important criteria for evaluating model's performance and quality.  While it is important that the mechanism is is as quiet as possible, to me there are other more important factors when it comes to judging quality and performance of a model.

        I suppose that's true. I figure the quieter a mechanism is, the "smoother" everything must be meshing.

Things like smooth operation (especially slow-speed), pulling capacity and the overall design of the mechanism are more important than noise. Things like whether it us a rats-nets of wires inside or a clean wire-free design, what type of material gears are made of (plastic which can often stress-crack or metal) are to me important fasctors when evaluating a model.

My friend, for example, has an Atlas GP38 which runs as smooth as silk but it sounds liek a coffee grinder.   It has been like that for the last 15 years or so of operating on his layout. He gave it a quick look but didn't find any easy fixes. SO he just continues using it as-is. After all, it runs very well.  While the amount of noise generated by the mechanism is usually directly tied to the quality of its design and assembly, to me the above example  shows that noise is not always directly related to the running qualities.

           Also true. My Kato GP38-2 is not silent, but runs well and can pull everything! Same for my first-release Kato F-3. It's actually louder than a very old Rapido FP9 I have,        but runs very well (it's a Kato, after all) and can also pull down a house.

Good to know that the Minitrix has been broken-in and that it runs better and quieter.  It has a different motor and different gear-ration than the Roco model so that is why the speeds are mismatched.  If it starts even at the minimum throttle setting then I suspect that it has a very efficient motor and you have an old rheostat-based throttle which needs a heavier load from the motor to lower its output voltage.  Most Kato locos are real speed demons -  if you had one to try I would be surprised if the Mninitrix was faster. 

Actually, I've been using either a transistor-type Troller pack, or the new Rokuhan I just got (on your suggestion, by the way) for some Z scale items I recently purchased ; so I don't think it's that. The Trix V200 is perhaps twice as fast as any other N scale engine I have; the nearest one, as far as speed is concerned, is an Atlas (Chinese)Geep 40...

In any case, it's fun to play around with this stuff and speculate...

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

I misunderstood your statement.  You said that the loco started moving as soon as you cracked open the throttle, but you didn't say how fast.  I wonder what kind of motor is in your Minitrix V200.  The usual Minitrix motors (they have been using for decades) is just a plain open-frame 3-pole straight-wound motor.  It is not particularly efficient and needs 3-4V to start.  Arnold, Roco and Fleischmann motors are similar to that motor. But in some of their recent steam-loco models Minitrix have used a Maxon coreless motor which is much more powerful and efficient.  I didn't think they used that motor for models of Diesels.   You wouldn't be willing to take the V200 apart, would you? 

[strummer]

If I can I will, though it won't be for a while yet.

What should I look for?

How does one tell a 3 from a 5 pole motor?

No, I think I probably misspoke. It does take a little "juice" to get going; more than the Roco(s) or my "US" models. Then it LEAPS into action. It can be throttled back to a decent low speed, but the initial start up speed is very high. My older(?) Trix K4s behave much better; smoother, slower starts and better over-all speed.

If/when I do disassemble it, I'll get my son to take some photos with his DSLR, and try to post them here.

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

How to tell?  You count the poles!    On an open-frame motor that is easy. Just mark one of the armature poles (with something like a Sharpie marker), then rotate the the armature counting the poles until you see the marked one again.

AFAIK, Minitirx never used 5-pole motors. Just 3-pole open frame and coreless motors.

If you look at the bottom left of the photo below at the tender chassis, there is the motor I would expect to see in your V200 (except that yours will have double shafts).



If you can post photos of your model, that will be great.

[strummer]

How to tell?  You count the poles!   

                   ..........

If you can post photos of your model, that will be great.

I will do my best. It may not be right away, but I will attempt such a task as soon as time allows. My son's DSLR should take some decent enough photos...as long as he's the one using it! 

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

I figure it's been a year and a half since this was last discussed, and now I have a new question for those of you who might be doing European N scale:

I love my Atlas code 55, which of course doesn't work with these large-flanged models. I'm wondering if some older Atlas/Kato geared wheel sets from say, an early RS11, would be a "drop in" replacement for the stock wheels/axles on this Roco V200? Unlike most of the Euro diesels I have, at least on this "lok" the gears are offset, just like the Atlas models...any thoughts,other than sticking with code 80 Unitrack?

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

I figure it's been a year and a half since this was last discussed, and now I have a new question for those of you who might be doing European N scale:

I love my Atlas code 55, which of course doesn't work with these large-flanged models. I'm wondering if some older Atlas/Kato geared wheel sets from say, an early RS11, would be a "drop in" replacement for the stock wheels/axles on this Roco V200? Unlike most of the Euro diesels I have, at least on this "lok" the gears are offset, just like the Atlas models...any thoughts,other than sticking with code 80 Unitrack?

Mark in Oregon

I'm glad you found your old thread. 

Without seeing both models in-person I can't give a definite answer, but I highly doubt it.  From what I remember Roco modes have a thin (probably 1mm dia.) solid-metal axle with a plastic gear and wheels press-fit on it.  The old Atlas/Kato trucks you are asking about have a much thicker plastic axle with a gear molded on it which then slides into sleeves machined on the back if the wheels.  You can't use those in the Roco truck.  I also think that the European loco wheels are larger in diameter than the US prototypes.

If you feel up to it, you can turn down the flanges of the old models. Many people have done that (just using a file).  Or I think there is someone out there offering to turn down the flanges on a lathe (for a nominal charge).

[strummer]

Thank you. You're no doubt correct...on all counts!

Mark in Oregon

[Snark45]

C'mon Peteski  --  it's SHAVE the flanges in a "lather"...

Best Regards, Harry

[peteski]

C'mon Peteski  --  it's SHAVE the flanges in a "lather"...

Best Regards, Harry

  Ficed Fixed!