Panasonic in-camera stacking demo video

[tom mann]

This looks very easy:

[Chris333]

What is the camera cost?

[Scottl]

It does look very simple.  I wonder how it looks at full resolution?  The preview screen is often quite forgiving.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Another video demonstration states the photo size maxes out at 8MP using this feature - just about enough to get you a half page print in a magazine.

[tom mann]

What is the camera cost?

The Gx85, Gx8, and G85 are all around 1000 with lens.

[robert3985]

Although "focus stacking" is a great option in a camera body, ya gotta remember that focus stacking isn't an end-all to your model railroad photographic needs.

First, in-camera focus stacking may sound great, but it isn't a mechanical process and relies heavily on the software designed into the camera body to give acceptable results.

As I've stated in other posts here, anyone who has used Helicon Focus, Photoshop or another software that allows focus stacking, there are some problems with it, especially in the model railroad photography use. 

I use Helicon Focus Pro and sometimes it gives me really wonderful results...other times, it's crap.  I doesn't like small highlights, like reflections off of an engine's driver tires, or large areas of darkness, like a tender side, or the area between the walkways on the side of a steam locomotive and the tops of the drivers.  It will, more often than not, make gray blobs around the highlights and in the dark areas because if I'm taking a stack of photos from in front of the engine to my skyboard, the vast majority of photos of any details on the engine are out of focus, and when out of focus, sharp highlights aren't "sharp" at all, but big white or gray blobs.  In dark areas, they get not-so-dark when out of focus...and the software, as advanced as it is, refuses to discern the gray blobbies as out-of-focus artifacts, so it includes them in the final stack combination.  In certain compositions, it can't tell what's the foreground from the background, so it does these weird see-through blobby artifacts that have some foreground and some background in them.  It also has "boundary fuzziness" which is leaving an area in the background adjacent to a foreground object that is completely fuzzy.

Photo (1) - Common Helicon Focus Problems 001:


Photo (2) - Common Helicon Focus Problems 002:


I am sure that whoever developed the focus stacking software in ANY camera body was not thinking about model railroad photography, and I would be surprised if it is better, or equal to Helicon Focus Pro.

Most of the problems associated with HFP can be worked around and if the composition is simple and not abundantly detailed, it usually works great.  But, before I'd think about dropping a grand on a camera that has in-camera focus stacking, I'd find someone who has that camera and see if it's gonna work for model railroad photography.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Bob,  you do use the Helicon Focus retouching tools to manually fix those problems, correct? 

I don't suppose that the in-camera stacking would allow for similar retouching?

[tom mann]

@robert3985 , I completely agree.  I'm actually more interested in getting the full 16MP images from the Panasonic camera and using Photoshop (or Helicon) to do the merging myself and not rely on in-camera processing.  Panasonic and Olympus call this focus bracketing, and from what I read it is actually implemented better on the Panasonic cameras.

With my current setup, I have to physically adjust the camera in between shots.

[peteski]

So the camera makes the stack of photos taken at a progressively different focus area and makes all those images accessible  for downloading?  I thought that while the camera took a series of photos, only the single resulting image with large DOF was available for download.  But if all the individual images from the stack are accessible than that does save lots of time and effort.

[tom mann]

It does either.

[robert3985]

Bob,  you do use the Helicon Focus retouching tools to manually fix those problems, correct? 

I don't suppose that the in-camera stacking would allow for similar retouching?

Peter,

I use both Helicon's and PhotoShop's retouching tools to get an acceptable final result, which many times, means combining parts of two or more stack results.

That was the point of my my post...I will bet that any in-camera focus-stacking feature is going to be markedly inferior to Helicon Focus.

Just like the vast majority of published professional photos, there's an expense of time and effort done to make them as impressive as they are.  Seldom do unmodified files from point & shoot cameras provide what is needed for professional results...and the same goes for focus stacking...in most cases, the very best results will be from using professional tools and investing the time to learn how to use them.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

@robert3985 , I completely agree.  I'm actually more interested in getting the full 16MP images from the Panasonic camera and using Photoshop (or Helicon) to do the merging myself and not rely on in-camera processing.  Panasonic and Olympus call this focus bracketing, and from what I read it is actually implemented better on the Panasonic cameras.

With my current setup, I have to physically adjust the camera in between shots.

So the camera makes the stack of photos taken at a progressively different focus area and makes all those images accessible  for downloading?  I thought that while the camera took a series of photos, only the single resulting image with large DOF was available for download.  But if all the individual images from the stack are accessible than that does save lots of time and effort.

When I'm shooting a stack for combining in HF, if the photo I'm looking to produce has a lot of distance between the close-focus point and my skyboard, then the stack is going to be 20, 30...maybe as much as 100 shots...all focused at descending or ascending focus points between the two extremes.  This means I'm handling the camera a lot, and barely twisting the focus ring in between shots...so little that most of the time, I really can't see the focus point changing between a couple of shots.  As I continue to focus and shoot, it becomes obvious the focus point is changing, but between just a couple of shots, it is barely discernible.

Then, there's the f-stop I'm using and the inherent DOF of the lens at each focus point.  A narrow f-stop equals more DOF, but the DOF doesn't remain constant as it changes from near shots to more distant shots, and may produce artifacts when the stack is combined.  Ideally, I'd shoot at the sweet-spot f-stop of my lens, which is usually between f5.6 and f8, and make my stack BIG...meaning a lot of photos, with focus points spaced as evenly as possible, which is tiresome at best, and really nearly impossible to do manually when shooting a stack of 30 or 80 photos.

If the focus-stacking software in the camera will automatically do this descending/ascending focus point shooting automatically, allowing the photographer to choose the nearest and most distant focus point, then this would be a really big asset, and take most of the tedium and inaccuracy out of doing this manually.  If it will produce a lower-res reference shot, but still save the full resolution stack photos to combine later post-camera with HF or PhotoShop...that would be excellent.

However, if you happen to already have a Nikon or Canon DSLR, you may not have to buy an additional dedicated Panasonic or Olympus camera body & lens to use for your model railroad photography, because Helicon Focus offers their Helicon Remote app...which turns your laptop or smartphone into a remote (either Wifi or USB depending on your camera) tool to do a number of things, including automatically taking stacks of photos using leading-edge algorithms based on your camera and lens settings for optimum focus-stacking results.

I have this app, but I haven't used it yet for any serious focus-stacking model railroad photography (but that will change in the next day or two!), but, it will allow me to find a steady, tripod-less location on my layout to take closer-to-the-subject focus stacks, never having to put my face up against the camera, peer into the camera's LCD, or touch it to release the shutter and/or fiddle with my focus points, since I can access focus, exposure, bracketing, time lapse, and video controls remotely using either a USB cord, or WiFi.

Here's the link:  http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconsoft-products/helicon-remote/

The main advantage of this app, which costs $48 for an unlocked, registered version as opposed to the free demo version so you can test it for free...is that it automates taking the pre-composed photo stack, loads the files into your smartphone or into your camera so you can access the files later with your focus stacking program...with no requirement to use Helicon Focus as your focus-stacking program.

The secondary advantage is being able to remotely view what your camera is seeing...and control its basic exposure and focusing features without having to stand on your head to look at your camera's LCD.  This allows placing your camera in normally inaccessible places to get some very interesting in-the-scene shots.

If you already have HF Pro, the cost is lowered to $40, and the app is included in HF Premium.

Remember, this app works on most Canon and Nikon DSLRS (with a few exceptions) and wirelessly on Canon & Nikon DSLRs compatibly equipped.  It does NOT WORK on other brands of DSLRs.  Also, some smartphones are also incompatible.

If this sounds interesting, and you've got a suitable Canon or Nikon DSLR, this app is a cheaper, but more advanced option than buying a dedicated Panasonic or Olympus DSLR for your focus-stacking, model railroad photography needs.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore