So is this "freight" FEF from KATO a 1950s version?

[OldEastRR]

Or is it the modernized excursion loco just painted differently?

[Missaberoad]

Since 844 is the only "Modernized" FEF it is a 1950s version.
I can't say how accurate all the details are to the era however.

[Missaberoad]

Judging from the photos on Kato's website, at least on the fireman's side the tooling looks identical between the two versions.

Kato describes the model as "Semi modern" and with the exception of some missing pipe detail looks pretty close to these late in service photos.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/up838-4.jpg
http://railpix.railfan.net/steamgif/up_842.gif

Here's a good shot of the obvious missing/different pipes/hoses.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/up838-graydon1.jpg

[up1950s]

Email received today

bigger https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zi4UQKBeFrE0v8AC0JQJlovGJ_21dpOwv4NSUC45lBiSoiuiN_WSuVxw6qO29hq7HmKbQux8xzVmlp7hntpuBUBJpmtHDfOC9BQm4DXxsM_p_6fhp5oE04BkRJ75TYDP5W3koN6W2bDb4aKGFkm0mqkEGbLeyjw6xkwQMPUdWdhVvSYQd-y2CVktea8bMT8AYnEtHx_1Fckrzvyptj4rTWeibZnQQ0EScllKO5jNihAIB44alI9BfXbfQoxaYwh7H3kvhVAvmeWuQebJvhGHR5PHv-t6SAzwiEjQkIxTvwhjHM0n1GaCPq6rpMZBgNvO-nrLP9CYEbg0SeF1KjFF9U-y5GzsYZURLoSEyvSuH-qehJCOGDPxTmJVftDaULcOoUVfZkpfvTSiteFvYfw6JL_DVyuiFaIm8-9kgE_jq4mKR3bkUHRTOfDIPf5U6JRoOVuo27XNFIK9drwdIdUO94wZiDJhqZ8Pd7zr627U9RPOg6-7FhITrDnvIrkLHjytx-ShEJpeGhEV82FKMS69qYakSuMGQ1d2jrh4I0_TOCH8TTiIcC-D4B1qn1CcUKH6tkENPxPHZNjsQwg1CtKNuRQOi5Cn9bQ-p9NbpKEB8G7AkUvQAw=w1300-h476-no



This month, Kato USA will be re-releasing the N Scale Steam locomotive FEF-3 #844 as well as doing a brand new production of FEF-3 #838 in freight paint! We have shipped in a number of advanced production samples which we have sent out to participating hobby stores to give you the opportunity to see this model "in the wild" prior to its release!

Attached, you can find a list of the participating stores that will have this model on display (We recommend that you call them to check availability and time!), as well as final product photos of this new N scale locomotive!

[robert3985]

The first release of Kato's 844 is not totally "correct" for the 844 in either transition era service (from 1947 through 1959) or while she has been in excursion service (1960 through present-day).

The second release of Kato's FEF-3 in different road numbers will only be totally "correct" for late "freight" service if the tender's oil bunker is modified to the much simpler, pre-EPA non-safety appliance original configuration.

Also, the "flat black" paint is incorrect, as UP's steam engines were only painted in glossy paint, never flat.  They got progressively "flatter" as the dirt & grime accumulated, but there were always glossy areas to be seen.

Additionally, Kato calls their flat black paint scheme a "freight" version, but FEF's glossy black paint was used when they were exclusively pulling passenger trains prior to April, 1946 at which time they started being painted UP's famous two-tone-gray "Greyhound" scheme.  In the early '50's, when they were still assigned to passenger service, UP discontinued the Greyhound scheme, and they were progressively painted back to glossy black as they were shopped.  Their new glossy black paint had nothing to do with later being assigned to freight service in Nebraska in the last two years of their service life (1958-1959).

As to whether the Kato "freight" version is going to be a correct 1950's version is not an easy question to fully answer due to incomplete information about this second release of the FEF-3 from Kato, but I can give you an educated guess.

Let's discount the lusterless black paint (which is incorrect for ANY version of UP steam engines) and start with three items that are easy to see on an FEF-3:

• There were only ten (10) FEF-3's ever built, numbers 835 thru 844, and during the years of approximately 1948 or 1949 thru 1958, all of the FEF's (FEF-1's, FEF-2's and FEF-3's) were intended to be equipped with Worthington SA feedwater heaters.  Records haven't been found as to when this conversion actually started, but it's generally agreed it was underway in 1951, with one or two being converted as much as four years earlier.  UP loved to fiddle with their steam locomotives, always attempting to improve both performance and reliability, and converting to the Worthington SA feedwater heater was a major modification to these engines as the smokebox had to be elongated approximately 12" to 18".  The Kato FEF-3 engine portion represents an FEF-3 that has had the Worthington SA feedwater heater modification, which is a plus for it being a "1950's version".
• The tender on the first release of the Kato FEF-3 844 has a modernized oil-bunker top, which means it is only correct for the 844 after its 4 year major shopping from 1992 thru 1995, when the walkways, oil-dams and other safety appliances were added to her oil bunker to comply with safety and EPA regulations.  Needless to say, if Kato does not backdate the oil bunker top, then that will make this release not correct for the 1950's, and when I look closely at the large photo of the "freight" version of the FEF-3 at the Kato USA site, it appears to me that the oil bunker top is the same as in the first release, which means the tender is correct only for the period between 1995 and today, and is a big minus for it being a "1950's version".
• The first release's white lettering is also incorrect and should be flat aluminum.  I can't tell from the recent Kato photo if they've corrected this inaccuracy, but I am going to guess they haven't

Union Pacific never painted their FEF's into a "freight" paint scheme, or used flat-black, or low-luster black for their steam engines.  Their black paint on every one of their steam engines was glossy black out of the shop, which became dirty during use.  All FEF-3's were painted this exact same glossy black scheme during the height of their careers prior to April, 1946, when the first FEF (#809) was painted two-tone gray with light gray lettering and striping (which was soon changed to Amour Yellow for a few years).

FEF's were also never assigned exclusively for freight at any time in their career, but were always ready and able to pull passenger trains or be used as passenger helpers or emergency passenger power when the need arose, right up until their last day of operation in 1959.

The Kato FEF-3 is an excellent representation of the prototype, late in its operating life...meaning from about 1948 or 1949 (when the first Worthington SA feedwater heater was first applied...the exact date or engine number isn't known) until 1959 when steam operations on the UP stopped.

The only deal breaker to all of the Kato goodness and this model being entirely correct for ANY FEF-3 pulling either freight or passenger equipment on the UP up to 1959 is the modernized oil-bunker appliances that Kato has chosen to apply to their model, and they are in a very conspicuous place on top of the tender, directly behind the cab...not easy to ignore.

A couple of things are certain, low-luster paint and white lettering are both incorrect, and if they don't replace the oil bunker top with a much simplified, pre-safety-appliance & pre-EPA version, then it will be even less "correct" for a 1950's FEF-3.

If they do backdate the oil bunker top, then it will be correct for a 1950's FEF-3, except for the non-glossy black paint and possibly, the white lettering.

Photo (1) Just for your reference, here's what the top of the oil bunker should look like on a 1940's thru 1950's FEF:


A few comments on Kato's referring to this release as a "freight version".  There never was a "freight version" of an FEF-3.  However, sometimes they could be seen pulling a freight, or helping a freight on the front or pushing on the rear with a caboose on the back.  A little-known tidbit about UP policy is that after a major shopping of a passenger steam locomotive, that freshly shopped engine was run once or twice doing freight duty to ensure everything was operating flawlessly.  It was much easier to pull a freight train over on a siding to await additional motive power, or to correct the problem, than to do the very same thing with a train full of unhappy passengers.  UP was just covering its a$$ and so there are quite a few photos of FEF's and other passenger engines, pulling freight trains, usually with fresh, clean paint from just being shopped.

When the FEF's were assigned to Nebraska to mainly pull freights where there were very few steep or long grades, they were still frequently called upon as emergency power to assist diesel powered passenger trains.  So, they were never fully removed from their primary passenger duties.

This means that for the UP modeler whose era is sometimes between 1952 and 1959, it would be entirely correct to see a glossy black FEF-3, with Worthington SA feedwater heater and non-safety applianced oil bunker pulling a passenger train, assisting a passenger train on the front end ahead of the primary diesel power, helping a freight either on the backend or double-headed, pulling a long freight in non-mountainous territory, or a short freight in mountainous territory and lastly, pulling a fast MOW supply train from station to station.

The Kato model is not appropriate for any FEF-3 operations whatsoever prior to possibly 1948 or 1949 even with tender oil bunker backdating because the Worthington SA feedwater heater (which the Kato model prominently displays) had not yet been applied.

I can deal with the low-gloss (not really "flat") black paint and even the white lettering, but I can't live with the non-1950's oil bunker details, and I will modify every single Kato FEF-3 that runs on my layout with appropriate oil bunker details.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Englewood]

I saw the freight version at the hobby shop today. Nice looking model! Can't wait to get mine so it can join my 844.

[OldEastRR]

So if one removes all the extra stuff off the tender the model will look more fitting for the '50s?

[robert3985]

So if one removes all the extra stuff off the tender the model will look more fitting for the '50s?

Easier said than done....but "yup", it will

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[havingfuntoo]

Nice history on the FEF-3s, I enjoyed reading your commentary. Thank you for taking the effort and imparting the knowledge Bob. 

[Nato]

                    Yes Bob, Thanks for the detailed history, I also plan to modify the oil bunker on mine when it arrives as I 'am pretty sure it will not have a changed oil bunker. Athearn is just a s guilty on their Oil Challengers , using the modern bunker from their 3985 excursion locomotive on otherwise nicely done freight and passenger versions. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah. 

[robert3985]

Y'all are most welcome ( @ Nato & @ havingfuntoo ) about posting a little FEF-3 history.  It's a lot of fun for me. 

ADDITIONALLY, Katousa has posted a new video 'splaining some of the same things I have pointed out, such as glossy vs low-luster paint, and that there was never a "freight version" of the FEF-3.  They also pointed out that the paint they've chosen for the firebox, smokebox and smokebox face is darker than the first release of the 844 (a good thing).  But, no word if the lettering is white or aluminum.  Looks like it will still be white (bad).  However, they have added some red lettering to the firehose door on the tender, which is nice.

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Also nice (and accurate) are the round cylinder covers, which were nickel plated and shiny.  Kato has left them correctly plated on the "freight version".  Very good!

Those of you who may wonder why the wheel bearing covers are still painted aluminum should note that this is not "decoration" but is an indicator to service personnel that the bearings are roller bearings and don't need waste-oil rags stuffed into them.  I noticed that the circular hub covers on the lead trucks were not painted aluminum on the Kato model, and they should also be painted aluminum for complete accuracy.

All in all, I am not too put-off by the low-luster paint (it is NOT "flat"), and the new paint certainly emphasizes the massive quality of these large, advanced steam locomotives! 

If I were to purchase one or two (I am not planning on it since I have a number of brass FEF-3's and FEF-2's plus a couple of shiny Kato 844's awaiting superdetailing and re-lettering) I would get the straight DC version, and add a Soundtraxx Econami large steam sound decoder.  Although the speed control isn't quite up to (but still excellent) the ESU's quality, the Soundtraxx Econami's steam sounds are better (IMHO) and the whistle is exponentially better than the ESU's.  FEF-3's used the same chime as both the big Challengers and Big Boys.  Both FEF-2's, FEF-3's and Big Boys were designed for 300psi boiler pressure, so the whistles sounded exactly the same.

Just for your enjoyment, here's a video I shot several years ago of the 844 running east at speed at Wahsatch, the top of the Wasatch/Echo Grade, sounding her whistle for the grade crossing there. Remember the doppler effect and that a model's whistle would sound a bit lower in tone: 

As a side-note, you might want to notice that the Armour Yellow paint color on the passenger cars is noticeably different almost from car to car.  Even UP can't get it perfect, eh? 

Photo (1) - Also, here's a photo I took of 844 when she was painted in her "all black" scheme a few years ago.  Note the aluminum bearing covers and the red lettering on the fire hose cabinet:


Photo (2) - Here she is from the front, taking on water at Union Station in Ogden on the same day.  Shiny, shiny and notice the darker graphite color of the smokebox and the aluminum paint on the lead truck's hub covers:


Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[up1950s]

I have 2 838's coming my way , forgot I ordered one in May or so . From what I have noticed in pictures so far 840-844 in the late 50's had that right side box on the tender . Not all plumbing on the left side of the engine is the same within those numbers , some have fatter pipes . By the time I get them the info will dictate what number fits the detail best .

[robert3985]

I have 2 838's coming my way , forgot I ordered one in May or so . From what I have noticed in pictures so far 840-844 in the late 50's had that right side box on the tender . Not all plumbing on the left side of the engine is the same within those numbers , some have fatter pipes . By the time I get them the info will dictate what number fits the detail best .

@up1950s , The "plumbing" was different on FEF's if they had, or didn't have the added-on Worthington SA feedwater heater.  Not all of them got it, although it was intended that they would all be converted, but UP stopped its steam program in 1959, and not every FEF had received the upgrade.  They each got the Worthington SA feedwater heater during a major shopping because the smokebox had to be rebuilt and extended by around 12", and the FEF-3's were the first to get converted, all of them eventually.  Records are incomplete as to when each one got upgraded, but the 844 received her Worthington SA feedwater heater sometime between 1954 and 1956.  This means that on the left side of the engine (the fireman's side) the feedwater heater plumbing was completely changed from the original Sellers Exhaust Steam Injector to the more efficient and reliable Worthington SA Feedwater Heater with the turbine under the cab on the left side, the pump located between the 2nd and 3rd driver on the left side, and the smokebox extended about a foot to accommodate the feedwater "box" in front of the double or triple stack housing.

When the 838 received her Worthington SA feedwater heater is a fact I don't know, but it's about 80% certain it was after 1952.  Some FEF-3's (as many as two) may have been fitted as early as 1949 while still in the Greyhound paint scheme, but I've never seen a photo of ANY FEF in TTG with the Worthington SA feedwater heater upgrade...and I've looked...but it is a possibility.

To make things much clearer...here are a couple of comparison photos:

Photo (1) - UP FEF-2 (same as FEF-3 except for the bolt-on, drop-coupler pilots and fabricated sheet metal double stack) with original Sellers Exhaust Steam Injector and associated piping on fireman's side of locomotive:


Photo (2) - UP FEF-3 after having had the Worthington SA feedwater heater installed, with turbine, pump, piping on fireman's side, and box ahead of double stack integrated into elongated smokebox:


"Larger" pipes (and more of them) on the fireman's side of the smokebox indicates the earlier Sellers Steam Injector was still in place if you can't see the rest of the engine.  From the engineer's side (the right side) if you can see the front of the engine, look for the "box" in front of the stack housing and if it's there, the pump, turbine and simplified piping will be on the side you can't see.

Best way to make sure you get your dates correct is to find dated photos of your FEF-3...835 thru 844 and look closely for the box, the pumps and the piping.

For just some added information, FEF-3 838 still exists in the Cheyenne roundhouse, being officially "retired" in 1961 and used as a parts supply for the never-retired 844.  844 has had some very extensive shoppings so how much of her is really the 838 is anybody's guess.  I suppose there are records of the swappings somewhere and it'd be interesting to see how much of the 844 nowadays has been scavenged from the 838, the 833 at the Ogden Union Station, and a Big Boy somewhere along the line. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[reinhardtjh]

Pssst... They're here....

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kato-N-1260402-FEF-3-Locomotive-UP-p/kat-1260402.htm

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Kato-N-FEF-3-Locomotive-UP-p/kat-1260401.htm