BLI M1 accurate consist

[PHANTO68]

I know that the M1s were used for both freight and passenger service, and that there were different paint schemes for the same engine depending on whether a particular engine was going to be used to haul freight or passenger consists.  Given the color scheme of the BLI M1s as delivered, is that an accurate scheme for a passenger train?  Every shot I have seen so far has them pulling freight.

Thank You

Bob in MD

[chicken45]

@Ed Kapuscinski actually answered this for me. You didn't really seem them time pulling varnish. They were more like "pre J class" locos in practice.

[Dave V]

@Ed Kapuscinski actually answered this for me. You didn't really seem them time pulling varnish. They were more like "pre J class" locos in practice.

And yet I have photos in one of my books of an M1 with an eastbound lightweight passenger train at Lewistown in the mid-50s.   

Never say never with Pennsy!

EDIT:  I'll have to check again...  They may have been modernized P70s.  Either way, though...

[eric220]

As I recall they were designed as dual service as a class (hence the keystone number plate and passenger 3-chime whistle) but in practice, they were mostly used for fast freights.  The M1s were designed in the 1920's and delivered beginning in 1930, which was right around the time that large numbers of K4s were being displaced out of the NEC due to electrification. The job of pulling heavy passenger trains could be handled by double headed K4's, leaving the M1's available for freight service. Of course, they were equipped to handle passenger service, so if the need arose, they were the logical first backup locomotives. Some could be found in snapper service on Horseshoe, where they would also have been logical candidates to be added to heavy passenger trains, if needed.

[Mike C]

 They look real good pulling the Broadway Ltd ......

[Bob Bufkin]

And yet I have photos in one of my books of an M1 with an eastbound lightweight passenger train at Lewistown in the mid-50s.   

Never say never with Pennsy!

EDIT:  I'll have to check again...  They may have been modernized P70s.  Either way, though...
I also remember seeing that photo.  And I think they were hauling modernized P70s.   Also remember reading that only certain M1s were assigned to haul both freight and passenger.  There are extra lines, connections involved with steam hauling passenger cars in regular service.  Communication line the conductor uses to inform the engineer it is time to move comes to mind.

To me an M1 hauling reefers, stock cars or fast fright if the ultimate service for them.

[chicken45]

And yet I have photos in one of my books of an M1 with an eastbound lightweight passenger train at Lewistown in the mid-50s.   

Never say never with Pennsy!

EDIT:  I'll have to check again...  They may have been modernized P70s.  Either way, though...

That's why I didn't say "never"! I know better haha!

[strummer]

If you go to Youtube and type in "The Pennsylvania Railroad"; you should be able to watch a 3 minute video taken mostly at Horseshoe Curve. Go to the 2 minute mark, and there is a brief shot of an I1 leading a small tendered M1 with varnish.

This probably doesn't help, but it really is a pretty good video, I think.

Mark in Oregon

[eric220]

If you go to Youtube and type in "The Pennsylvania Railroad"; you should be able to watch a 3 minute video taken mostly at Horseshoe Curve. Go to the 2 minute mark, and there is a brief shot of an I1 leading a small tendered M1 with varnish.

This probably doesn't help, but it really is a pretty good video, I think.

This one?

Calling that train "varnish" is a bit of a stretch, but it is in fact one of those Pennsy passenger trains that looks like a massive mixed train. Bizarre to see an I1 at the head end of a train that ends with passenger cars. As has been said, never say never with the Standard Railroad of the World.

That video does include some good shots of M1s doing what they did best.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

This reminds me. I feel like I've seen multiple cabooses per train enough now in the "classic era" for my curiosity to be piqued.

Does anyone know why that would happen?

[strummer]

This one?

Calling that train "varnish" is a bit of a stretch, but it is in fact one of those Pennsy passenger trains that looks like a massive mixed train. Bizarre to see an I1 at the head end of a train that ends with passenger cars. As has been said, never say never with the Standard Railroad of the World.

That video does include some good shots of M1s doing what they did best.

That's the one.

And here I thought using the term "varnish" it would make me sound like I knew what I was talking about... 

Mark in Oregon

[jmlaboda - RIP]

Does anyone know why that would happen?

Possibly they were used on Extras, which at the end of its run the return of the locomotive and caboose was not expedient to do so they were held for an appropriate train returning in the opposite direction.  Not unusual back in the day to see cabs (or cabins, since this is a PRR thread) added to the usual tail end car for their return to a previous point of departure.  Most mainline train operations had this as a fairly infrequent but common enough addition of extra cabs, making for an interesting arrangement when one could find such.

Back during the 80s when RAIL CLASSICS magazine ran their cab spotting articles pix of multiple cabs being on the tail end of a train were quite common... and it became a selling point for quite some time for railfans and modelers because of the caboose articles.  I have some in my collection that I happened to pick up on eBay and I am sure I will eventually go digging through them once again to relive what it was like when cabs were such a big part of railroading and to be reminded about how great these articles were.  It definitely was a time to remember for most who railfanned the era!!!

[Missaberoad]

This reminds me. I feel like I've seen multiple cabooses per train enough now in the "classic era" for my curiosity to be piqued.
Does anyone know why that would happen?

Back when cabooses were assigned to specific crews if the crew needed to deadhead to another terminal they would need their caboose to travel with them.
Still a common practice today except its typically a taxi or contractor that provides the transportation.

During the later era of pooled cabooses it would likely being equipment being balanced between terminals, like the locomotive consists with 10+ locomotives.

edit: for spelling

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That's kinda what I thought, but thanks for the clarification!

There was one example I knew of from when I was a kid. Conrail's train ALCA (Allentown-Camden) had to change ends in Philly to get from the line from Allentown to the one to Camden. So, back when they ran with cabooses (and had more than they needed), they just stuck one right behind the power to speed up the end change. I remember seeing this train a lot as a kid, and it almost always had a cabin car right behind the engines.

Then, they stopped using cabooses and ALSO built a new connection so the runaround move was no longer necessary.

[dougnelson]

There was no difference in paint between PRR passenger and freight engines, but passenger engines were likely cleaned more often than freight engines.