Question on Kato SD40-2 frames and part numbers

[randgust]

I'm known for Stupid Ebay Tricks by making unsupported conclusions, and I'm trying to prevent the next one.

I'm 'trying' to get another Kato SD40-2 'early' DC mechanism - not the second generation with the redesigned trucks, or the one with all the frame cutouts (before the 'improved' 2007 retool, according to Spookshow Mark) that still has screws holding it together.   Part number on the frame casting is    17647R and 17647L on what I am looking for.  See http://www.spookshow.net/katosd4x.html top mechanism picture.

Now the real question.... how in the devil do you tell the locomotives apart by the final Kato part number, packaging, locomotive numbers, or anything else?     I generally can't get sellers to pop a shell off to tell what's in there.    Are ALL Early Production and Snoots the original mechanism with the mid-production being the only upgraded one?   Maybe the tip-off is the presence/absence of ditch lights on the shell?

I got memorably burned on buying a Kato C30-7 mechanism by not realizing that trucks didn't come with it.   Lesson learned. 

[u18b]

Randy

Look again at spookshow's page.

The newer screwless version ALSO has a thin black "frame" that goes around the bottom of the metal just above the trucks.

Notice the detailing on the fuel tank is different.  The older one is plainer.

Also, see that extended plastic between axles 2 and 3 that is designed to cover the pick ups?
That plastic is missing on the newer versions.

Are you asking what to look for when buying on ebay so that you can be sure?

Also, if it hasd an A/C unit on the roof, then it is the newer chassis.

[u18b]

Also,

Screwless trucks have LITTLE square holes for the gears.
Older version has the gear holes we are used to- larger and in a slightly L shape.

A photo of the bottom of the truck would show this.

Also- (so far)  ditchlight is screwless.
No ditchlights is the older chassis.  (at least so far).

[bnsfdash8]

The early SD40-2 and snoots all have the frames that are screwed together.

[ns737]

HI all Kato sd40-2 mechs  are dcc ready . only the early sd40 and c30-7 are dc only.

[learmoia]

HI all Kato sd40-2 mechs  are dcc ready . only the early sd40 and c30-7 are dc only.

Except the Early Kato SD40-2s and SD40s share the same frame design the difference is in the trucks.

Upgraded SD40s and 45s simply used the early SD40-2 DCC frame so everything is interchangeable..

One thing to note.. SD40-2s with Ditch lights - New Frame - Without Ditch lights - Old Frame.  ~Ian

[randgust]

Thanks Ron, that tip on the fuel tank is a winner, hadn't noticed that difference on the cast-on detail but it is a dead giveaway when all you see on the listing is a side shot.    I figured the ditch lights 'should be'.

I already repowered my Intermountain SD45-2 with one of the Kato chassis, the question is how I spot a second one with the shell on.   There's just no comparison in performance, really.  As I'm DC, and virtually everything that is 'first line' is Kato, matching motor speed/gearing is a prime issue.  I've gotten tired of fighting non-Kato chassis on multiple unit lashups and trying to tweak them, let alone that the Kato chassis will outpull an Atlas or an Intermountain by about 30%. 

[JanesCustomTrain]

Except the Early Kato SD40-2s and SD40s share the same frame design the difference is in the trucks.

No, they may look similar but they are not the same.

Upgraded SD40s and 45s simply used the early SD40-2 DCC frame so everything is interchangeable..

There were no SD40-2 with non DCC frames.

You can use old non DCC SD40/45 frames and put 'early' SD40-2 trucks on it, that will work.

You can use DCC SD40/45 frames and put 'early' SD40-2 trucks on it, that will work.

But you can't put SD40/45 trucks to SD40-2 frames, they wont fit, the gear tower has a different shape and will not fit into the  SD40-2 frames.

The new SD40-2 frames (screw less) will only fit the new SD40-2 trucks and the SD70ACe trucks plus the revised SD70M trucks.


Jane

[jagged ben]

This is really simple...

... Are ALL Early Production and Snoots the original mechanism with the mid-production being the only upgraded one?   

Yes.

Maybe the tip-off is the presence/absence of ditch lights on the shell?

YES. 
You want one without ditchlights. 

[JanesCustomTrain]

Now the real question.... how in the devil do you tell the locomotives apart by the final Kato part number, packaging, locomotive numbers, or anything else?

Anything between Kato # 176-4800 and 176-4949 is fine, these are the 'early' models.

The new 'mid production' models start from Kato #176-4950 and 176-8200 (nose light)


Jane