Athearn Big Boy Improvements

[basementcalling]

Bob, your list probably rivals the punch list UP has to get their historic Big Boy back in to operational condition. I'd hate to see your list to improve a model you don't really like. 

[kirmies]

Bob,

I had put together a list of my desired improvements to make to the Athearn Big Boys before seeing your posting here and it's amazing how similar the lists are suggesting we're both on the right track to produce really high quality models. Over the next few weeks I'll have a go at solving the articulation problem and let you know how I get on.

The Athearn model is way superior to any of the N-scale brass Big Boys I've seen both in terms of both the level and sharpness of the detail so, if the articulation can be sorted, I feel they're the route to the best possible 1:160 model.

Peter

[robert3985]

Then you should ditch the Athearn and go back to brass models.  The Sakatsu Big Boy I have is articulated the way you want: The rear engine is attached to the boiler and the front engine's pivot  point is slightly behind its rear driver. But I'm sure that this type of articulation creates a new set of problems when traveling through unprototypically tight curves most of us have in our N scale trackage (I don.t know as I haven't run it yet).

Peter @peteski,
I did just the opposite of what you suggest.  I ditched the brass models, because although they were articulated properly, and detailing brass is much easier than detailing plastic IMO, they didn't pull worth a damn...like 10 cars and a caboose!!

Rumor has it that back in the late '80's, some Ntraker had a brass Big Boy that he'd "fixed" that would pull over 100 cars.  I never saw it, but several members of the club I was in swore they'd seen it in operation.  I'd have to see it to believe it, since I've had the brass BB's completely apart many times and IMO making the front engine actually do any pulling would be very problematic.

I am completely happy with the performance of the Athearn Big Boy/Challenger models, but because of my passing siding length on my layout (9', 7-1/2") this equals 1 Big Boy, 30 PFE 40' reefers and a caboose, which is long enough to look "right", and allow trains to take advantage of my UP-style center sidings between the double-tracked mainline tracks.  BUT...other than not enough separate detailing for me, the three things that bother me most about the Athearn big articulated UP engines are (1) the distance between the tender and the cab...which takes me about 30 minutes to fix... (2) All the "daylight" under the boiler when viewed from the side, meaning most of the prototype's support structure between frame & boiler is missing because of the way the engine is articulated, allowing the rear engine to freely pivot, and...(3) the way the cab swings out on curves and the smokebox doesn't.

The more I think about it, the more I think I am going to not touch the articulation problem at this time, but fill in the "daylight" with pieces that look "real" enough, but allow the rear engine to pivot, such as the rear cylinder support between engine and boiler (completely missing), something to block "daylight" under the firebox, such as what Kato did with their FEF-3 (a very thoughtful touch indeed!), the boiler support on the front engine that on the prototype allows the front engine to support the front of the boiler, but still pivot side to side...and lastly...fabricate the big steam pipes that go up from the the rear cylinders then jut 90 deg. forward to the front cylinders.  On the prototype, these are not articulated, since they're solidly connected to the boiler and rear engine, but since the rear cylinders on the model are connected to the pivoting rear engine, these steam connections, if modeled (they are absent on the Athearn model) would have to be articulated to allow the rear engine to pivot under the boiler.  It could be, that after I get the "daylight" problem eliminated, I'll be able to live with the funky articulation on the Athearn models. Maybe not too.  We'll see.

Just the single modification of shortening the drawbar to get the engine & tender to a proper distance apart severely curtails using my BB's & Challengers on layouts with small mainline curves.  Since my layout's minimum mainline radius is 24", my modification won't affect operation, but definitely will limit operation to layouts with a minimum mainline radius of 18" or above.

Photo (1) & (2)- Shortened Drawbar Comparo on Athearn Challengers:




Here's what I'm doing structure-wise with my Big Boy cab...messing with the windows, opening up the ventilation hatch on top.  Challenger cabs will get the same treatment, but they'll also get extra "fins" on the cab top, and on the steam turret to comply with photos of particular Challengers I'm using as references for my 1947 thru 1956 era.  The "fin" on the back of the Big Boy cab appears to be a bit too small, and I'm thinking about making a new one for it also.  Lastly, the cabs will get clear, metal-framed wind deflectors attached to the the outside frame of each cab window.

Photo (3) & (4) - Athearn Big Boy Cab Mods So Far:




Next, I'll be stripping the number off the cab and re-numbering using Microscale Aluminum UP steam lettering (a very nice set of decals) along with proper interior paint color and painting new Styrene details up on top.

Although not part of the cab assembly, I'll also be adding a few details to the cab interior, including better looking crew seats, some backhead details that can be easily seen from the open cab windows, and at least a fireman and engineer.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

EDIT: I apologize about repeating myself from my initial couple of posts.  I've neglected this thread for too long!

[robert3985]

Bob, your list probably rivals the punch list UP has to get their historic Big Boy back in to operational condition. I'd hate to see your list to improve a model you don't really like. 

Peter @basementcalling ,
Haha...I'm sure the UP Steam Program Crew has a lot more to do than I do!  However, I was in Salt Lake City and Ogden when the 4014 went through with my camera taking all sorts of reference photos!  Frankly, I never seriously thought I would ever see a Big Boy under steam in Weber Canyon, but now my son and I will be at our favorite spots in Echo & Weber Canyons when it makes it here in the next couple of years!

Y'know, I never have improved an engine I didn't like.  Don't know if I ever will... 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

Bob,

I had put together a list of my desired improvements to make to the Athearn Big Boys before seeing your posting here and it's amazing how similar the lists are suggesting we're both on the right track to produce really high quality models. Over the next few weeks I'll have a go at solving the articulation problem and let you know how I get on.

The Athearn model is way superior to any of the N-scale brass Big Boys I've seen both in terms of both the level and sharpness of the detail so, if the articulation can be sorted, I feel they're the route to the best possible 1:160 model.

Peter

Peter @kirmies  ,
I am anticipating what you come up with as far as articulation is concerned.  I've looked at it a bit, and it always appears that I'd need to machine a new front frame, and modify the rear one to get power to the front engine, along with gearing, U-joints and shafts.  But, I haven't seriously got into it yet, and I hope that my articulating the big steam piping from the rear cylinders to the front cylinders will make me happy... 

I agree with you about the detailing on the Athearn models vs N-scale brass Big Boys.  My Key Big Boys had most of their boiler details cast-on...such as the grabs on the steam and sand domes, and the detailing on the pilot, including the hand-rails and no late aftercoolers at all.  Electrical conduit was totally absent, and the recessed grabs over the cab windows were a very improper, shallow etched-in detail. 

I am very happy with the Athearn Big Boy and Challenger models as base models to improve.

So far, the mods I've done (cab details, shortening the drawbar, scraping off cast-on grabs, piping and throttle linkage on the boiler and replacing handrails and aftercoolers on the pilot, recessing and replacing the round-head screw in the front stack, drilling out the rear stack) have been quick and easy.  I haven't fabricated & attached the new brass parts yet, but that won't be difficult.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[basementcalling]

Peter @basementcalling ,
Haha...I'm sure the UP Steam Program Crew has a lot more to do than I do!  However, I was in Salt Lake City and Ogden when the 4014 went through with my camera taking all sorts of reference photos!  Frankly, I never seriously thought I would ever see a Big Boy under steam in Weber Canyon, but now my son and I will be at our favorite spots in Echo & Weber Canyons when it makes it here in the next couple of years!

Y'know, I never have improved an engine I didn't like.  Don't know if I ever will... 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Bob, your modeling is beyond top notch. I remember the Weber Canyon shot you took that won the MR photo contest back in the day. It convinced me I wasn't even going to bother modeling that stretch of UP, because I'd never like my results compared to what you've accomplished. The NTrak module with some chunks of ceiling tile as canyon walls went into the dumpster, (well the ceiling tile did.) and the frame was repurposed to an industrial area. My Rivarossi Big Boy and Challenger have tender pickup I added, but I've never touched the shell details.

I was in Cheyenne two years ago as part of a trip to Denver and spent 3 days haunting the station area and eastern side of Sherman Hill. The post office workers gave me funny looks when I mailed myself a box full of zip lock bags of Sherman Hill dirt for a module of the station at the summit.

I didn't make it to Echo and Weber Canyons as I couldn't get that far west that trip, but one day I would love to see the area in person.

[garethashenden]

I am completely happy with the performance of the Athearn Big Boy/Challenger models, but because of my passing siding length on my layout (9', 7-1/2") this equals 1 Big Boy, 30 PFE 40' reefers and a caboose, which is long enough to look "right", and allow trains to take advantage of my UP-style center sidings between the double-tracked mainline tracks.

Are these center sidings effectively long trailing crossovers? I didn't know UP used those. It's a good way of getting most of the benefit of two sidings for the space and cost of only one.

[u18b]

What I would like to see is detailed dis-assembly photos and instructions.


I have a Challenger with a burned out bulb.  I want to replace it with a micro LED but for the life of me I can't figure out how to get to it.

And to date, I have not been able to find instructions anywhere.

Love your work Bob.