Club layout short driving me nuts

[Maletrain]

Regarding the effect of DC on Frog Juicers, this is all I could find  (on the Tam Valley website):

"Common Contact Questions:

"Q: I sometimes operate my DCC layout as DC.  I know they will not work with DC but will this hurt my frog juicers?
"A: A lot of model railroaders have done this and it has not caused any damage.  However, I can't warranty your frog juicers in this case."

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Now that it's solved...

A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel down his pants. the bartender says, “hey dude, what’s with the steering wheel?” the pirate responds, “ARRGH, it’s driving me nuts!”

[Point353]

Now that it's solved...

A pirate walks into a bar with a steering wheel down his pants. the bartender says, “hey dude, what’s with the steering wheel?” the pirate responds, “ARRGH, it’s driving me nuts!”

[peteski]

A monkey with a pirate hat - how very appropriate! 

[Sumner]

Regarding the effect of DC on Frog Juicers, this is all I could find  (on the Tam Valley website):

"Common Contact Questions:

"Q: I sometimes operate my DCC layout as DC.  I know they will not work with DC but will this hurt my frog juicers?
"A: A lot of model railroaders have done this and it has not caused any damage.  However, I can't warranty your frog juicers in this case."

I'm finishing up all the bus wiring on the layout and changing them into new and different districts.  I was testing to see if all the different sections of the new district were connect to each other with a Tech 2 power pack by connecting to the end of the buss and checking along at different points for voltage.  I forgot that this part of the bus was originally connected to a Tam Valley Hex frog juicer and it was still connected.  I had the power pack turned up to about 9 volts.  Then I saw the LEDs on it were lit up.  I checked on the internet like you did and found that I probably didn't hurt it.  I'll know more when I connect that track up to the right track outputs on the command station soon.  I'm hoping that it is still fine.

Sumner

[peteski]

I would imagine that any device using DCC signal as its power will be fine if accidentally connected to DC.  After all DCC is basically a DC voltage which reverses polarity multiple times a second. So with DC it is like the DCC signal "froze" for extended period of time.  I wouldn't  expect the devices like frog juicer to actually function as designed, but no damage should occur.

[jagged ben]

As.long as the voltage isn't too high. 

[peteski]

As.long as the voltage isn't too high.

True, but most DC throttles are not designed to go over 12-15V and DCC is also designed to handle those and a bit higher voltages, so theoretically it is safe. Buy yes, if you throw 30VDC into the circuit, things might get nasty.

[Maletrain]

I'm no electrical engineer, so this is just supposition on my part. But, wouldn't most DCC boards use computer logic type components that run on DC, so that the first thing in the power pickup circuit is a rectifier?  If so, the it doesn't matter if it's AC or DC in, because it is DC out, either way.

Maybe somebody with more knowledge about such things can explain what parts of a DCC circuit could be at risk from DC.  But, let's not go into the issue of voltages above the component ratings.  That will kill anything, even if it all goes into a rectifier.

[peteski]

Yes, the electronics (microcontrollers or miniature fully-functional computers) which run the decoders and other "intelligent" DCC accessories like the juicer absolutely require filtered and regulated DC voltage to run from.  Yes, I'm sure there is a rectifier in the juicer, and as I mentioned, feeding DC voltage should not harm them. Items such as DCC  decoders even recognize DC voltage and go into DC-running mode (if so enabled). As far as the juicer goes, it might  not properly detect the track polarity mismatch and not switch its output appropriately. But since the frog is isolated from the other tracks this should not be a problem.  I don't own any juicers so this is all theory on my part.