GN Tail Observation cars in BSB ?

[Puddington]

Does anyone know if the Great Northern Railway ever got around to re-painting their tail observation cars (ie: Port of Vancouver ) into a version of the Big Sky Blue livery ? If so, does anyone know of a photographic reference.

Many thanks in advance.

[Hyperion]

I know that some of the old Pullman Observations (the ones with the areas to stand at the rear, I'm not a passenger guy so I don't know what those are called) were repainted, but I can't find anything that ever says or shows that the streamlined ones ever were.  If you can find a consist of the Empire Builder after 1967 that would indeed verify that they were repainted since the full consist was done, but I can't find a consist for the Post-BSB period, nor can I even find so much as a picture of the rear of the Empire Builder after it was painted BSB.  The brochures of the EB from that time period put a lot of focus on the new Domes, so I'd be inclined to believe that the Observation cars were moved to other trains.

Walthers did a version where they painted one in BSB.  But I think that may have just been an excuse to offer a repainted version of the Empire Builder.

[Nato]

    Another answer from Mr. Know It All. The two GN Obs cars used on the Seattle Vancouver BC. International trains "Port of Vancouver" and "Port of Seattle" ,never recieved the Sky Blue colors. The BN merger occurred before any repaint of these two cars, they also never recieved BN colors, but when they went to Amquack (trak) they operated in EB orange & green colors. The Mountain series obs cars from the mid century Empire Builder with their large windows (Con Cor car) were running on the Western Star by then and would have been repainted to Blue again,but BN merger halted all blue repainting. Con Cor's blue model is incorrect. These cars were later used again in Amtrak service in their original orange & green colors. At least 3 of them survive one was painted in SP Daylight colors for use behind SP 4449 on the train that ran round trip to the Worlds Fair in New Orleans. The original 1947 PS built obs cars similar to Kato's model were rebuilt once with more rooms and smaller lounge and re used on the EB untill early 1960's then they were rebuilt to coaches. Atleast one if memory serves went to New Jersey Transit who purchased some GN/BN coaches in the early 1970's.                                                                       Nate Goodman (Nato).Salt Lake, Utah.

[Puddington]

Ok, so "inquiring minds wanted to know...." On another site someone mentioned a publicity photo of a "all BSB" GN Empire Builder... it rang a bell with me so after wracking my peanut brain for where I'd seen it I remembered a brochure I bought years ago..... and "there it was"................

But this now starts to cause me issues with what the "far more knowledgable" ( and that's an understatement) have said reagding the Lounge-Observations cars at the rear.....

I have scanned and enhanced the shot....



Ok, so from front to back we have...........

2 x F45's ( and what the hell were they doing there ?)
Baggage
Dormitory/Baggage
60 seat coach
Dome coach
Ranch Coffee Shoppe car
Dome coach
Dome coach
Great Dome
Lake series Dining car
River series Duplex sleeper
Pass series sleeper

and then.................

Well, it looks like a 6-4-1 Lounge Obsrvation car - al la Coulee series......... at least to me....

Here's a close up and enhancement...........to the best of my ability...........



Clearly the last car seems to be the "last car" behind the hill cut.... is so, is it a BSB lounge - observation car, and if so, which one.............? Or is it another "Pass" sleeper..........I don't know !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > >

Help........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 : : : : ???

[jmlaboda - RIP]

This has been discussed elsewhere before and experts on the GN Goats List at Yahoo! Groups catagorically state that none received BSB paint.  None were even in service on the Empire Builder when it received the initial consist of repainted cars, a consist that did not remain together for very long.  The few observations that remained beyond the mid-60s rebuilding of some to 60/68-seat coaches were religated to the Western Star, since the Big Dome was the lounge car for the Builder after delivery.

Now "IF" there is an observation car on the above train, it likely is one of the business cars that GN had, either the built new PS car or the modernized heavyweights, and as did two of the Compas training cars.  They all recieved the BSB paint before BN.

Oh, by the way... have you not noticed that the car ahead of the "last car" has to sets of paired windows on the end, just like the last car?  Looks to be another "Pass" sleeper... the windows are wrong on that end for a "Coulee" observation, which would have a vestibule on this end.  And the "Coulee" observation cars were rebuilt to coaches before BSB was introduced, so it couldn't be one of them.
http://algomacentral.railfan.net/images/Oldies/chicago_1_1965.jpg

[Ryan87]

There are no Vestibule doors on the front end of the last car, it's not a observation...