TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: dougnelson on April 05, 2018, 11:27:47 PM
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Friends:
Long time coming, but by popular demand, we have just restocked with a limited run of B60b kits. Kits are $20. Shipping is $7.00 per order. These kits do not include trucks. Trucks and roof ventilators are available from KeystoneDetails.com. Let me know ASAP how many kits you would like and I will send a PayPal invoice for you to pay by credit card, debit card, or PayPal. I think that the demand will outstrip supply, so do not delay.
To order: send an email with the number of kits you would like to: hellgatemodels@yahoo.com
I will respond with a PayPal invoice.
Thanks,
Doug and Claus
Hell Gate Models
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Email sent.
Thanks in advance.
OOO
OOO <~~~ the SixPak
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Cool. 8)
Mark
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Ordered. Paid. and shipped. :D
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I know that HGM has provided link information for the specially for HGM designed 2DP5 trucks (roller or friction) and the messenger vents (angled and straight), here they are at Keystone Details (http://www.keystonedetails.com) so you can order them mow and have them when your kit arrives? (maybe, lol) The truck frames are designed to work with 0.563" x 36" wheelsets of your choices.
These choices allow total flexibility for you to have variation in your kits.
2DP5 Roller bearing (http://www.keystonedetails.com/products/n-scale-details/2018/3/30/n-scale-2pk-roller-bearing-2dp5-truck-for-hgm-b60b-kit)
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b4ec6829687f9e19a9a279/t/5abefaa988251bcf7a0bb94f/1522466437022/hgm+rb.jpg?format=750w)
2DP5 Friction bearing (http://www.keystonedetails.com/products/n-scale-details/2018/3/30/n-scale-2pk-roller-bearing-2dp5-truck-for-hgm-b60b-kit-w9y33)
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b4ec6829687f9e19a9a279/t/5abefc4403ce64873183f0c3/1522465877417/hgm+fb.jpg?format=750w)
Straight messenger vents (http://www.keystonedetails.com/products/n-scale-details/2018/3/30/n-scale-prr-angled-messenger-vent-14pk-6wsps)
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b4ec6829687f9e19a9a279/t/5abeffcb70a6ad85f495b0ac/1522466772882/messngr+vnt.jpg?format=750w)
The angled messenger vents were placed here in error. I cannot find any imagery with them on a B60b.
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Ordered one more baggage car for the to-do list.
Any PRR experts out there who like to paint with water borne or water based acrylics? If so, any recommendations for this car circa 1955?
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On the first day of availability, we have sold 75% of our stock, so if you want to order, do not wait. Send an email stating how many you want to hellgatemodels@yahoo.com. I will send a PayPal invoice for you to pay with credit card, debit card, or PayPal.
A little history. Claus and I were bitching about the lack this car in N scale. It is a very distinctive car, so there wasn't even a stand in. You cannot model PRR passenger trains without the B60b, so we decided to stop bitching and do something. We did it for ourselves, but we soon had many requests from friends, so we went into production. That was back in 2001! It is still unbelievable that no manufacturer has ever done this car as ready-to-run. Walthers of course did the B60b in HO. No surprise they never did it in N. The B60b traveled all over the US and Canada, so you don't have to model Pennsy. Maybe someday. In the mean time, we are selling these kits by the hundreds.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/1350-060418182905-55181182.jpeg)
Instructions:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/1350-060418184808-5519364.jpeg)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/1350-060418184809-5519628.jpeg)
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E-Mail has been sent. This would be a cool addition to my SP mail train.
Thanks,
Wolf
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I sent an email as well.
Taylor
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Email sent for 2 models!
Yup, i bought some more pennsy junk :facepalm:
Drasko
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Email sent for 2 models!
Yup, i bought some more pennsy junk :facepalm:
Drasko
Good choice. You definitely need PRR B60b cars for your ATSF Fast Mail. :D
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Good choice. You definitely need PRR B60b cars for your ATSF Fast Mail. :D
OK, but you Pennsy guys desperately need ATSF 60' fishbelly mail storage cars, and some of the rebuilt 4000 series express reefers, in your mail trains. (It seems to be true in N scale that if the PRR demand something, it is much more likely to really happen. Now, if I could just find a photo of an ATSF mail storage car in a NH train, we'll be set).
But seriously, Doug is right, ATSF modelers- actually just about anyone who models a train in the US with a lot of head end, needs a B60b.
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OK, but you Pennsy guys desperately need ATSF 60' fishbelly mail storage cars, and some of the rebuilt 4000 series express reefers, in your mail trains. (It seems to be true in N scale that if the PRR demand something, it is much more likely to really happen. Now, if I could just find a photo of an ATSF mail storage car in a NH train, we'll be set).
But seriously, Doug is right, ATSF modelers- actually just about anyone who models a train in the US with a lot of head end, needs a B60b.
We do. What are our options out there?
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OK, but you Pennsy guys desperately need ATSF 60' fishbelly mail storage cars, and some of the rebuilt 4000 series express reefers, in your mail trains. (It seems to be true in N scale that if the PRR demand something, it is much more likely to really happen. Now, if I could just find a photo of an ATSF mail storage car in a NH train, we'll be set).
But seriously, Doug is right, ATSF modelers- actually just about anyone who models a train in the US with a lot of head end, needs a B60b.
Show me an NP or SP&S passenger train with a PRR B60b in the head end, and my Hellgate B60b is coming out of retirement! I always liked that car. It is treasured piece of my collection. Would be great to have an excuse to run it in the Northwest.
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Now if Hellgate would just do the B&O C-15. It is actually pretty similar to the Pennsy B60, except that it is only 50' long and has just one, centered door per side. It also has some rather unique trucks that aren't available anywhere in N scale, so maybe a source of C-15 models would motivate somebody to make those trucks.
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Now if Hellgate would just do the B&O C-15. It is actually pretty similar to the Pennsy B60, except that it is only 50' long and has just one, centered door per side. It also has some rather unique trucks that aren't available anywhere in N scale, so maybe a source of C-15 models would motivate somebody to make those trucks.
Sounds like a great idea... You know the folks lining up!
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The C-15 is high on my scratchbuilding and casting list, though if someone beats me to it I won't complain.
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Good choice. You definitely need PRR B60b cars for your ATSF Fast Mail. :D
You are absolutely correct! This will make 3 total.
Drasko
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We do. What are our options out there?
Sadly, not too many of the heavyweight era.
PRB brass 73' ATSF baggage cars with and without fishbelly sides, sometimes available on Feebay.
Roberto Martari's beautiful stainless steel etched side baggage car overlays, with or without fishbellies, hard to get.
Fine N Scale resin wood sided express reefers, before rebuilding with steel sides.
Rivarossi etc. baggage, a one of a kind car, but reasonably prototypical.
Did I miss anything?
Otto K.
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Sadly, not too many of the heavyweight era.
PRB brass 73' ATSF baggage cars with and without fishbelly sides, sometimes available on Feebay.
Roberto Martari's beautiful stainless steel etched side baggage car overlays, with or without fishbellies, hard to get.
Fine N Scale resin wood sided express reefers, before rebuilding with steel sides.
Rivarossi etc. baggage, a one of a kind car, but reasonably prototypical.
Did I miss anything?
Otto K.
That's pretty much it Otto. Hey @Joetrain59, fish belly baggage cares!!!!!!
Drasko
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The Rivarossi is actually a few scale feet short of its prototype. And while it is "one of a kind" there were a fair number of similar cars rebuilt from old baggage-library and baggage-lounge cars. And the combine can be cut up and baggage ends spliced together to make a fair representation of the baggage cars (the ones with 2 big doors) that were rebuilt from early steel coaches- although that did not happen in earnest until the early 50s.
But while one can occupy some time chopping up Rivarossi cars, we really, really do need more baggage, coaches, RPOs, diners, and lounges with sills and steam ejector AC (well, no AC on baggage cars).
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Yes, the RR baggage is about 2' too short, but still a very reasonable representation of car 1849, down to the rivet lines. It's just an odd prototype to pick, out of hundreds of head end cars...
Otto K.
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I think the choice of prototype for Rivarossi cars had to do with the drawings being readily available - as were the rider baggage-coach (another odd choice) and the diner. And they wanted things that could all fit on the same frame- at least we have had a plausible ATSF baggage car from the beginning. I think Atlas just plucked drawings from various Kalmbach and Carstens publications and sent them to Italy along with the ATSF car plan book from the 1950s. (And let us all give thanks for whoever it was that got Roberto Martari interested in making models of SP and ATSF cars)
Given that the MT baggage car seems to sell well, and that they have rerun it in many road names, that Hellgate can sell 75% of a run of B60b's in 24 hours, and that Rivarossi must have sold many thousands of a rather unique ATSF design (of course, they did have a HW monopoly for 30 years), and that Atlas new baggage car sold out at some online outlets in hours, should tell manufacturers something. Which is- we want more baggage cars. And more head end cars generally.
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What suggestions are there for the stirrups? I've been looking over photos of PC's Spirit of St Louis and have noticed these in the consist as well as #13 Mail and Express that also ran over the Panhandle. Since I've somehow backdated some rolling stock to 1970 I am all of a sudden interested in these. And are there any left? I'm about to go out and railfan with a few PRR guys as I now nothing about PC's passenger service pre-Amtrak and am going to be asking lots o' questions of them. Thanks for any help and suggestions.
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I have a very few left. For the stirrups, I recommend Gold Medal Models Kato Smoothside details, part #3. There may be other etched metal options.
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Thanks and email sent. I guess I should have looked for the website as parts listings suggestions were there. :facepalm:
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Mine just showed up in the mailbox. That was quick. Thanks, Gentlemen!
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Wow, placed order on Saturday and got in on Monday,(Arrived from California to Michigan and delivered by noon Monday on the door step ). That is express service Pennsy style. :D Thank you !!! Now ill have to wait for the trucks from Shape Ways via snail service. :| At least I have some time to paint and prep the bodies. Castings are top notch with little flash and some minor sanding required to remove some small amount of flash. Not bad.
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Wow, placed order on Saturday and got in on Monday,(Arrived from California to Michigan and delivered by noon Monday on the door step ). That is express service Pennsy style. :D Thank you !!! Now ill have to wait for the trucks from Shape Ways via snail service. :| At least I have some time to paint and prep the bodies. Castings are top notch with little flash and some minor sanding required to remove some small amount of flash. Not bad.
Yeah shapeways has me 7 days til the ship date right now.
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Received my car yesterday -- outstanding!! Thanks.
Now, without opening a huge can of worms --- what brand of paint has a good color for a circa 1955 car-?
Is there a reasonable version of Tuscan Red out there - ?
Thanks,
Wolf
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Add me to the list that "got mine"!
Outstanding, fellas!
Thanks!
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Received my car yesterday -- outstanding!! Thanks.
Now, without opening a huge can of worms --- what brand of paint has a good color for a circa 1955 car-?
Is there a reasonable version of Tuscan Red out there - ?
Thanks,
Wolf
You know, it probably doesn't matter. Tuscan changed over the years, I think, and these cars were pretty filthy. Just make sure it isn't too purple.
Doug used Boxcar Red for a reefer and I did the same. By the time I was done with it, I could have painted it brown and nobody would have noticed.
These things were always pretty filthy so, there's a lot of wiggle room with base color.
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You know, it probably doesn't matter. Tuscan changed over the years, I think, and these cars were pretty filthy. Just make sure it isn't too purple.
Doug used Boxcar Red for a reefer and I did the same. By the time I was done with it, I could have painted it brown and nobody would have noticed.
These things were always pretty filthy so, there's a lot of wiggle room with base color.
Excellent --- thanks, for the guidance!!
Wolf
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Mine just showed up in the mailbox. That was quick. Thanks, Gentlemen!
Me too.
Apparently Doug uses the same wormhole for shipping that Chuck does.
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Now we need a new run of R50bs.
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Now we need a new run of R50bs.
For realz. Those reefers were something incredible.
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Now we need a new run of R50bs.
I wonder if there is any chance. Those were @thbguy and GHQ produced. thbguy hasn't been on here since July 2017.
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what color should the trucks be painted for the b60's. Is it an olive drab type of color similar to the rb50's?
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what color should the trucks be painted for the b60's. Is it an olive drab type of color similar to the rb50's?
Depends... The olive on R50b trucks lasted until January 1944.
Walthers did runs of olive trucked B60b cars. Looks to be the same kind of thing.
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/maps/86-modeling/205-walthers-prr-passenger-car-models
...I should also add that the HGM model has the porthole door which I think started in the post war period, so it's prob safe to say that you should paint the trucks black because they likely would have been black because the kit represents a post war prototype. There prob were not a lot of porthole door olive greened B60b's, if any. But never say never with Pennsy.
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So I started my build of this model.
First and foremost, I DO NOT want this post to be construed as a criticism of a home grown project by Doug and Claus.
In all the years they have run these, I was never able to obtain any and I FINALLY have my three kits, I am both grateful to their perseverance, and their willingness to continue to make them at their pace.
I am also glad and grateful to have contributed with new trucks and vents for the kits, purchased separately.
Please also keep in mind I have never worked with a resin cast model before so the material and condition were new to me as a modeler.
So, out of the box, I noticed that the chassis was bowed in the side view quite a bit in the center, and this concerned me because I knew I would be adding my truck design when they arrived, and I wanted to make sure the bolster planes were parallel to each other. The bow would obviously have to be fixed. I also did not want the new MT bolster pins (more on that in a minute) binding no the trucks on track radii.
The new trucks are designed specifically for the MT bolster pin. The casting material drills beautifully (nice surprise!), and a 2mm drill works perfectly with the pin, which inserted with finger pressure and stayed in nicely.
Rummaging, I found some old 1/8 brass square tubing that was stiff enough to straighten the casting. I cut them shy of the ends and filled them with #12 lead shot, tape on the end at first, soldered one end, reversed and soldered the other end to trap the shot. I made two of these and clipped them to the chassis castin on the inside surface parallel and spaced to clear the bolster pin hole in case the pin protruded into the car. Then I wicked some thin CA under them to adhere them to the chassis.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/2711-150418204622.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=5622)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/2711-150418204705.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=5623)
After that set up, I dammed each end inside the channel to prevent the lead shot and glue from running into the bolster pin hole, poured in some more lead and sealed it in there with thin CA.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/2711-150418204751.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=5624)
If anyone is wondering, the casting alone is approx 0.1oz, the brass tubing was 0.1oz before filling and 0.2oz after. The additional lead takes the the chassis to 0.75oz. This reall makes for a steady, smooth car movement and tracking, IMHO
Here is the car with some Keisel trucks under it, (which in fact are a near representation of a CR prototype out there), but I can't wait until I get the 2DP5 trucks under it and finish up the rest of the car.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/5/2711-150418204950.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=5626)
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I've fixed bowed sides of shells on resin casting boxcars by putting them in moderately (not boiling) hot water for a while then gently pushing them back into shape. I'll be a while before I get to them but to keep them straight I put the chassis and shell together (just fitted) so they keep it from bowing.
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Depends... The olive on R50b trucks lasted until January 1944.
Walthers did runs of olive trucked B60b cars. Looks to be the same kind of thing.
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/maps/86-modeling/205-walthers-prr-passenger-car-models
...I should also add that the HGM model has the porthole door which I think started in the post war period, so it's prob safe to say that you should paint the trucks black because they likely would have been black because the kit represents a post war prototype. There prob were not a lot of porthole door olive greened B60b's, if any. But never say never with Pennsy.
No doubt the PRR experts will find this a remarkably dumb question, but looking at the Walthers cars in the link, for both the B60b and the R50b- did PRR drop REA lettering on all its cars in 1954, or just some? All the 1954 vintage cars in the link have no REA lettering. Also, according to my monitor and eyeballs, there are at least 4 different colors on that page that are identified as "Tuscan" or "Tuscan red"- in some cases, 2 different shades in the same timeframe. Is that just a lighting/graphic image choice in the images, or did PRR change "Tuscan" WWII to postwar to mid1950s, and/or use different colors within any of one of those timeframes?
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No doubt the PRR experts will find this a remarkably dumb question, but looking at the Walthers cars in the link, for both the B60b and the R50b- did PRR drop REA lettering on all its cars in 1954, or just some? All the 1954 vintage cars in the link have no REA lettering. Also, according to my monitor and eyeballs, there are at least 4 different colors on that page that are identified as "Tuscan" or "Tuscan red"- in some cases, 2 different shades in the same timeframe. Is that just a lighting/graphic image choice in the images, or did PRR change "Tuscan" WWII to postwar to mid1950s, and/or use different colors within any of one of those timeframes?
Don't worry, us PRR experts look down upon EVERY other railroad. ;)
Kidding aside, this is the place to ask! It's how we all learn.
As for the tuscan color, after weathering, again, it'll look fine. Just don't use anything too purple or it'll look weird. I think it's all the same color in the photos. I don't know about the PRR dropping REA lettering. No idea.
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No doubt the PRR experts will find this a remarkably dumb question, but looking at the Walthers cars in the link, for both the B60b and the R50b- did PRR drop REA lettering on all its cars in 1954, or just some? All the 1954 vintage cars in the link have no REA lettering. Also, according to my monitor and eyeballs, there are at least 4 different colors on that page that are identified as "Tuscan" or "Tuscan red"- in some cases, 2 different shades in the same timeframe. Is that just a lighting/graphic image choice in the images, or did PRR change "Tuscan" WWII to postwar to mid1950s, and/or use different colors within any of one of those timeframes?
And @chicken45 calls himself a PRR expert... :facepalm:
There’s another page on Jerry’s website that talks about R50 paint schemes.
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/passenger/148-r50b-paint-lettering
Based on those two pages, I’d say that starting in February 1954, the REA lettering came off all the head end cars. Probably came off the express X29 boxcars too. Of course, as Chicken pointed out, these cars rarely saw a wash rack, let alone a paint shop. There were likely REA marked cars wandering around for awhile after 1954, although the REA lettering may have been crossed out.
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And @chicken45 calls himself a PRR expert... :facepalm:
There’s another page on Jerry’s website that talks about R50 paint schemes.
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/passenger/148-r50b-paint-lettering
Based on those two pages, I’d say that starting in February 1954, the REA lettering came off all the head end cars. Probably came off the express X29 boxcars too. Of course, as Chicken pointed out, these cars rarely saw a wash rack, let alone a paint shop. There were likely REA marked cars wandering around for awhile after 1954, although the REA lettering may have been crossed out.
I actually had that R50b page open first, lol. That’s how I came my conclusion about the olive trucks.
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Here is an interesting page with some seriously tight images of a B60b being used as an outbuilding, in case you really want to superdetail one:
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/b60b/Interesting (http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/b60b/Interesting)