TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: C855B on April 08, 2012, 03:18:01 AM
-
...what sort of layout would you design, and hopefully build?
It looks like I have the opportunity to get some cheap space in a warehouse, roughly a 40'x50' rectangle. Main "catch" is this is under the auspices of the local history museum and it's been suggested I consider accommodating public viewing.
Design away!...
-
If it was me, and IF it was in my home town, I would do a 1:1 version of the railroad I am modeling. Norther Pacific, Tacoma Division, 4th Sub. the "Prairie Line." It was about 40 miles long, and terminated at a Major Yard in Tacoma, Wa. their was a handfull of branches, and logging lines along the route also. With it being 40 Miles, By my calculation, you would need about 1500 feet for the main line, witch is doable in a big enough space, and even more realistic if you made it multiple levels.
I guess the point is, I would find a small, Fairly short local Sub, or line and do a 1:1 model of that.
-
Local
History Museum means that it must connect with the locale. Building something that can be educational in a hurry means that you will want a 'crew' to build it.
Consider HO scale as it offers more commercial products and will offer opportunities to more closely model signifigant local history. While N may be our personal choice, it may not be realistic for a museum display...
-
First I would gather a crew and then sit down and discuss what local railroad or area be modeled and planed from there.
Then I would choose HO since its easier for the public to see from normal public viewing distances and could be highly detailed.
-
Oh... apparent misunderstanding here. The museum is not involved in this at all, other than by virtue of the building owner's connection to the museum. He just suggested the possibility of public display as a means of making it an attraction, generally. I will be paying a modest rent for the space, and some of the light bill. It is mine to use as I see fit. This just happens to be inexpensive, available space. I had been seriously looking to buy a lot next to the main junction here and putting up a post-frame building. Ours is a small Midwest town in decline, so land is very cheap. This particular space would get the layout into construction sooner rather than later.
So... it will be N. Besides, I need to leverage 45 years of collecting. Make no mistake, this will be my layout. I had planned to tip my hat to the local area in a scene or two anyway, just for the fun of it.
As far as which RR to model, turning back the clock to the '60s, the immediate region was served by seven RRs - IC, MP*, B&O, L&N, SOU, C&EI* and CB&Q. I have the faintest of interests in but one, CB&Q. I'm a Western road modeler (...booooo, hisssss...) with a weakness for big power. None of the local RRs were known for big power, especially during my target period circa 1970.
I'll work on the "crew" aspect. Living here six years, I've only recently made acquaintance of the handful of local railfans. We have not yet discussed model railroading between the passing trains, so I don't know if any of them would be interested.
=====
I am working on a preliminary benchwork plan in my head, which will need to be adjusted or even replanned once I get into the actual space and see where the access and support columns hit. My thinking at the moment is generally a backbone with peninsulas allowing 6' aisles. Construction would be basic plywood prairie, broken down into mostly 2x4 sections (tho' not "modules") where the track, scenery and wiring could be cut at the joint lines in the instance I have to move it. I've been in entirely too many clubs where we "lost" our space, and the layouts using traditional "permanent" methods could not be moved and had to be destroyed. I'm 58, and this will likely be my last layout, so if I need to find another space suddenly (when, for instance, my 15-year-older benefactor passes away and I have to deal with heirs) I won't lose too much of the value of the work already done.
* - I especially hate the Mop. For starters, it was an incredibly boring RR. Then, you guys may accuse the UP of being "the Borg", but what you may not know is that UP's purchase of MP put the MP management in charge. The post-1982 UP is the Mop in a yellow dress.
-
Sounds like the iron triangle of Centralia, Salem, and Mount Vernon.
Craig
www.bluford-shops.com
-
[chuckle]
I figured you would recognize it, Craig. Space I'm talking about is catercorner to the Centralia history museum. OK view of the tracks, too, at least from upstairs.
-
If it was with the local history museum in my town I would do a pretty good sized representation of the Boston & Maine's Conway branch, which ran through town.
If they are nudge nudge know what I mean, know what I mean, making comments on it accommodating visitors, I would try and keep with the theme of the local area.
-
How about a floor plan of the area you have. Such as obstacles that will need to be either built around or over such as doorways and windows. Also areas that will need to have access like electrical and water.
Jon
-
If I were you I'd go with Sherman Hill. UP was awesome in the 1970's and that space would allow you to do it justice. Actually, I'd expand of that to do Cheyenne to Green River (Hanna coal, Atlantic City ore, Green River soda ash). Big power, big trains, big scenery.
If it we're me, I'd consider using half to model my main interest, CN and CP in southern Ontario in the late 1980's, and the other half to model the EL from Meadville to Bingo. :drool:
-
To Ian's comments... I don't think there's a quid pro quo in play here. I've worked with the benefactor on civic projects on and off for five years, and that's not the way he works. He was mostly indicating appreciation of the effort to date and a willingness to help if I wanted to make it a local draw.
I won't be able to inspect the space directly until later this week, so no precise floorplan yet. I can estimate the available space based on what I could see from the first floor, including ramps, staircases and mechanicals.
Mike nailed the gist of it. My desired plan is vignettes of the UP main from Omaha west including the LA&SL circa 1970, picking from various points in Nebraska, around Green River, Wasatch, Afton Canyon, and a couple of nostalgic spots in SoCal. Current project name is the Gibbon, Cozad & Western. There is going to be a lot of open space portrayed, with no real continuity like trying to model a specific segment of a specific line. Again, primarily vignettes.
But I do like the idea of dividing the space thematically. Given the design in my mind's eye, I could easily devote a section of the layout to local scenes, and have a loop within a loop for operations representing local roads.
-
...what sort of layout would you design, and hopefully build?
FWIW, for myself, space is one of several constraining resources. Time is far more scarce, and of course there are always questions of cost, reliability, maintenance, lighting, control system, backdrops, etc.
For public display, you might want to give some thought to some kind of sound system. I'm always amazed at how sound can bring a model scene to life.
Ed
-
First thing I'd do is make sure I lock up a 10 year lease, and perhaps an option to buy. Model railroads don't appear overnight, and it would be a drag to be 5 years into the project and have the relationship with the landlord go sour.
Lee
-
Good points, Ed. Time and costs within reason are or are about to be mostly taken care of (early retirement). Engineering background should cover most of the reliability and maintenance considerations, though maintenance is part of the "crew" issue I need to solve. Lighting is likely to be multi-color LED spots on tracks, with suspended 4' or 8' tubes for work lighting. Control will be DCC with JMRI.
Backdrops I'm still thinking through. A tall "skyboard" approach is coming to mind. My wife (an artist) has volunteered for cloud duty, not to mention scenery.
Sound? I'm going to have to think about it. Not a fan of model sound, but I see your point from the display aspect, as sound has a "popular" appeal. What are your ideas, and what stood out for you where sound enhanced the perception of a scene?
Lee, what you say is primarily why benchwork is absolutely going to be sectional. The objective is to be able to cut the top layer apart at the joints, move the bits, and resume elsewhere if need be. But you're absolutely right, for another reason - this space is not conditioned. If I buy an HVAC system for it, it will be with the understanding, formal or informal, that we're mutually committed for a good long time.
-
The first things I would assure are:
Aisle space, rather than cramming in all the layout you can. 5 or 6 ft wide aisles in all or most cases.
Simplicity, at least for the mainline route for reliability, just in case you do public shows.
High scenery to track ratio. Use and show off N to its fullest.
-
I'd do what I'm doing now. I've got a 12' X 30' room, with one window in it and no closets, but, I'd like to have about 40' X 60' and, I plan on either a home purchase or building a "facility" sometime in the next couple of years. Right now, I've developed a modular layout system that incorporates a minimum of 12' long LDE's...actually, most of the planned ones are considerably longer than that and the "modules" (which I call "units" are mostly 6' long X 3' wide on the ends with common hardware to make setting them up and tearing them down easy, with integral folding legs. The 3' wide measurement with the "standard" track positioning and double track 1.5" apart mainlines is only necessary on the ends of the LDE's which have dedicated profiles and trackage within their individual scenes. All LDE's occupy a length that is in 6' increments.
That's the basics...oh...and the base railhead to floor height is 52", each LDE has at least one Digitrax Loconet panel, the skyboard is 18" above railhead height and there are at least two (sometimes three) white 36" drafting lamps with 5,000 K compact fluorescent 25 watt bulbs illuminating the scenery. Flowing front fascias are mandatory as is non-plywood-plains benchwork, using laminated Masonite subroadbed for automatic track easements and the best sound-deadening available. Did I mention that it's also very cheap?
I am working on two dedicated LDE's for my present space. They are: Echo Junction in Utah in 1951 that is 24' long, and Devil's Slide Utah, with the twin bridges, Wilhemina Pass, and the Ideal Concrete Factory and the center siding there...it's also 24' long. These barely fit in my present space, but, I am able to run trains NOW. When the layout is in its final configuration these two scenes will be at least 24' apart with Henefer between them.
I have other units that I am also working on which are specific scenes in both Echo and Weber canyons. Those scenes won't fit into my present train room, but when I take the whole shebang to a show, they will fit. Those two scenes are Curvo Utah (where the U.P. crosses over itself and goes Westward with left hand running, and the signature twin Warren Truss Bridges on both sides of the Taggarts tunnels which was a favorite photo spot for U.P. photographers from the 1869 beginning.
Eventually, I will be building most of the run from the Ogden Yard, including the Ogden Union Station's operations (over 40 passenger trains a day) and interchanges with the SP, D&RGW and the Bamberger there...through Wahsatch where helpers were cut off and ran back to Ogden. Trains left for all four directions of the compass out of Ogden every day and in 1951 through 1956 (my generous time period for trains, motive power and cars) trains were pulled by Big Boys, F-3's, GP7's and 9's (with the ubiquitous cabless "B" units), all the E units, PA's, FA & FB's, Fairbanks Morse Units, FEF's, Baby Turbines and Verandas (no tenders) with some freights being helped by 3700 class oil-fired Challengers to Wahsatch...Oh..and one train being pulled by either a Consolidated or Light Mike...the Park City Local. Various other engines and trains from the SP and D&RGW arrived and left Ogden. Other engines which I'll eventually have to scratchbuild went and arrived northward and southward. LOTS of operation potential!
This section of the U.P. was very busy every day and it was ABS controlled with small sections near "rock fences" being under CTC control, so no major dispatching panel will be needed. I have a photo of the actual panel used to control those sections...and it is small.
It's about a 60 mile section of double track between Ogden and Wahsatch with the typical U.P. center sidings at Peterson, Morgan, Henefer, Devil's Slide, Echo and Wahsatch, with several trailing point sidings servicing stock pens and minerals along the way. The one major industry was the Ideal Concrete plant at Devils Slide with a complex pick-up, set-out procedure that involved non-priority freights and the Park City Local moving cars between Echo and Devils Slide.
I'm also leaving room for modeling the Park City Branch which branches off the U.P. mainline at Echo Junction and was run every day in my time period.
The point in this long-winded epistle is that a lot of research can be done to really make a "railroad" and the use of LDE's (Layout Design Elements) with prototype track arrangements takes away much of the possibility of goofing up the sidings and industries...because you're modeling (copying) a prototype! Using an adequate modular concept as a layout platform makes you able to run trains before you have the whole thing built. AND, you can take sections of it to shows if you are ambitious enough!
If you've got enough space...no need for double decking...which puts the kibosh on ideal scenery-to-track ratios and ideal railhead to floor height.
A lot of room means you can build it big...but not too big. I still limit my passing sidings to a length that will accept a train being pulled by a Big Boy, 35 40' cars and a caboose. These trains are plenty long and look great snaking through the canyon scenes, tunnels and bridges. 9' 8" center passing sidings are also plenty long and frankly will barely fit in a 12' LDE length unless I use #6 turnouts instead of my preferred #8's.
My philosophy (and the philosophy of the N scale Division of the Hostlers Model Railroad Club out of Ogden Utah) is that we build big scenes for little trains....to maximize N scale's fabulous scenery to track ratio. And the time period I've chosen runs some of the largest, most spectacular engines ever made, through some of the most spectacular scenery in the Western USA.
DCC with sound is easy to put in steam engines with big tenders like Big Boys, Challengers, FEF's, and MacArthurs. It also fits easily in E's PA's, F's, FA's and B's as well as the Fairbanks Morse units. Geeps are not too difficult either, but involve me machining their frames. And they sound great on the near silent laminated Masonite subroadbed. It makes a HUGE difference as opposed to running on Styrofoam or plywood subroadbed.
Anyway...just some thoughts and the above is what I am actually doing after several years of planning and thinking about it. It's great fun!!
Cheers!
Bob Gilmore
-
We just got a new home up in the mountains above Ashland and have a room 15x25 downstairs that's all mine :D I figure it will take me years to fill it up, but the basic plan is to use 6'x1' modules mounted to the walls around the room and then migrate inwards with a series of islands. The beauty of using modules is that I can be up and running trains quickly and as I change my mind or want to add in an island, can split them apart without heavy carpentry. (using freemo standards) I want to model SP from Taylor Yard out to the San Fernando Valley so I can have a mix of urban and orchards. If I had more room, per your question I would love to expand the layout north and head up the coast to San Francisco and link Taylor with 4th Street Station. In the space I have I could probably pull it off in Z scale, but lacking the willingness to buy expensive bench queen brass steamers, I'll go with N and suck it up :D Made a great deal on a bunch of Mikes and Pacifics so short of a couple of switchers and a fleet of cab forwards, I'm ready to get cracking.
Joe.
-
:| If I had a huge ammount of space I would model the entire state of Nevada in Zed Scale. The rail lines just cut through a small portion of the state,but Las Vegas and Reno usuing micro-micro LED's would be awsome. I would either do this or model almost the entire Rio Grand Southern in N&3 which a fellow modeler is doing in most of his basement. Nate Goodman (Nato).