TheRailwire

General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 11:45:09 AM

Title: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 11:45:09 AM
Hi there,

Right now there is one set of Kato's California Zephyr for sale here in Germany. The box says it is the 106-055 one. According to the Kato website this set was released in 2004 and 2006. All other releases have different numbers.
The seller says it is from 2018 and the price he is asking is for a new set. Maybe he bought it at that time as new.
So the question is, is it maybe a re-release which is not listed on the Kato website or is that set 16 or 18 years old?

Thomas  :)
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: oakcreekco on June 24, 2022, 11:52:32 AM
Kato's website generally is very good showing release dates and part numbers.

I would say that the CZ set in question is the old run.

Either way, these are beautiful sets. Love mine.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: peteski on June 24, 2022, 11:54:08 AM
Like you mentioned, the seller could have bought it new 16 years ago, and never ran it. Or maybe the seller bought it more recently as new from a hobby shop where the train set sat unsold for all those years (new old stock)?

If each release of this set had different car names/numbers, maybe ask the seller for some of those names/numbers and they see if you can figure out which release those are from?  Actually, when you mentioned "new numbers", do you mean new road names/numbers on the cars, or new part number for the train set?
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: CBQ Fan on June 24, 2022, 12:13:47 PM
I feel like there were two releases with two sets of road names/numbers before they went with the 056 part number.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Sokramiketes on June 24, 2022, 12:34:45 PM
Best way to track these releases is by the car names in the sets. 
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 12:43:29 PM
Yes, I did that. I asked the seller for the car names of some cars. That will clarify the age of the set.

Quote
Actually, when you mentioned "new numbers", do you mean new road names/numbers on the cars, or new part number for the train set?

In this case I meant the part numbers of the set.

'Old new stock' is quite unlikely because only a few shops sell US trains. The few which are doing so sell their stock to the modellers quite quick.
Everything else is ordered on request.

Thomas
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 12:45:32 PM
I feel like there were two releases with two sets of road names/numbers before they went with the 056 part number.

I think so too, at least that's what the Kato website says. Although the two -055 sets contain cars with different car names.

Thomas
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 12:47:25 PM
Either way, these are beautiful sets. Love mine.

I would love to have one, not only because I have already the CBQ F3 ABA set...  ;)

Thomas
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 24, 2022, 04:07:26 PM
Ok, I got the names from the seller, so this set is the first release from 2004.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Simon D. on June 24, 2022, 05:31:28 PM
Hattons in the UK have two pre-owned Zephyr sets available if this is helpful.

Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 25, 2022, 05:21:08 AM
Hm, can't find the sets on their website. Only the Silver Streak sets.
Ordering from the UK is not that easy anymore...

Thomas
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Simon D. on June 25, 2022, 09:35:43 AM
Apologies I think I got the two confused.


It's not easy to buy the other way round either due to a fit of national madness a while back.


Good luck in your quest.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: nscalbitz on June 29, 2022, 11:15:49 PM
Like you mentioned, the seller could have bought it new 16 years ago, and never ran it. Or maybe the seller bought it more recently as new from a hobby shop where the train set sat unsold for all those years (new old stock)?

If each release of this set had different car names/numbers, maybe ask the seller for some of those names/numbers and they see if you can figure out which release those are from? ...or new part number for the train set?
hi
Kato were inconsistent IIRC from 2000 and did reissue an unchanged set with original part numbers. If I hadn't archived them off my computer I'd pull the tracking for you. 'Mostly' they were new sets, I think at least twice there were re-releases, nearly a decade apart. I have a second set (2017)  that does not match the first release exactly in cars. Its great when buying singly to know, but now I have to sell them off except the set. It was a gift from my mentor,
regds
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: NorsemanJack on June 30, 2022, 01:27:36 PM
Five releases:
106-055
106-055
106-055B
106-056
106-057
   
Dome Observation:
Denver & Rio Grande Western   Silver Sky
Chicago Burlington & Quincy   Silver Solarium
Western Pacific   Silver Crescent
Chicago Burlington & Quincy   Silver Penthouse
Chicago Burlington & Quincy   Silver Horizon
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on June 30, 2022, 04:10:28 PM
According to the above it was definitely the first set released in 2004 the seller offered as new from 2018.
Guess what, he sold it for the price as if factory new. But not to me  ;)

As a side note, some sellers on ebay.com are even asking a lot more, $499.00  :o

Thomas
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: NorsemanJack on June 30, 2022, 05:44:19 PM
Guess what, he sold it for the price as if factory new. But not to me  ;)
Why is this a problem?
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: peteski on June 30, 2022, 05:44:36 PM
According to the above it was definitely the first set released in 2004 the seller offered as new from 2018.
Guess what, he sold it for the price as if factory new. But not to me  ;)

As a side note, some sellers on ebay.com are even asking a lot more, $499.00  :o

Thomas

Prices on eBay can be really crazy.  This is due to the eBay's current pricing structure.  Unlike like in the past where seller had to pay insertion fee for each listing (regardless if it sold or not), now they can list them repeatedly without any fees paid unless the item sells.  That enables opportunistic sellers to list their items for ridiculous prices, waiting for some fool to buy the item for that price.

As for the 2004 set, if it was really new, then  it might actually be worth the money it sold for.  Sometimes older sets are even more valuable than recent releases. It is not like model trains get stale sitting unused in a box (to be worth less money). The only problem is if the buyer expects the car names/numbers in the 2018 set, they will be disappointed.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: w neal on June 30, 2022, 06:23:46 PM
And don't forget the extremely rare dome baggage car "Silver Shed". It seems the Q was one of the few roads that put a dome on "everything".
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: NorsemanJack on June 30, 2022, 07:10:02 PM
I feel like there were two releases with two sets of road names/numbers before they went with the 056 part number.
There were.  See my earlier post.  I am baffled why this poster feels that an original release should be cheaper because it isn't "factory fresh."
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: pedro on June 30, 2022, 11:28:38 PM
And don't forget the extremely rare dome baggage car "Silver Shed". It seems the Q was one of the few roads that put a dome on "everything".

😬 That’s a classic! You still have it?
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on July 01, 2022, 04:44:57 AM
Why is this a problem?

No, it is not a problem. I wouldn't have expected it.
The only thing that wasn't ok in my opinion is, that it was said to be from 2018 and not 2004.
Personally, I wouldn't have bought it for that price, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: John on July 01, 2022, 06:19:31 AM
As a side note, some sellers on ebay.com are even asking a lot more, $499.00  :o

thats just crazy
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: w neal on July 01, 2022, 09:48:31 AM
Oh yeah! One of the least popular experiments that Havelock ever created. The Q's lesser known Silver Shed, a Kubo custom exclusive.

My thanks to Dan Cluley, who managed to pull the blueprints for this from filing cabinets amongst the wreckage of the Q's Cooks Terminal Warehouse the night after the wrecking ball took out the top floor.


(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/29/2674-010722094707.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=29637)
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: CBQ Fan on July 01, 2022, 07:04:30 PM
Oh yeah! One of the least popular experiments that Havelock ever created. The Q's lesser known Silver Shed, a Kubo custom exclusive.

My thanks to Dan Cluley, who managed to pull the blueprints for this from filing cabinets amongst the wreckage of the Q's Cooks Terminal Warehouse the night after the wrecking ball took out the top floor.


(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/29/2674-010722094707.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=29637)

What is that thing and why does it exist?
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: w neal on July 02, 2022, 08:40:13 AM

"What is that thing and why does it exist?" - Ralph Budd 1954
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: oakcreekco on July 04, 2022, 02:32:20 PM
Running my CZ set this 4th of July weekend. Running right now, and it's a sweet set in every way. No issues.

FWIW: The Kato set # is 106-055.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: craigolio1 on July 04, 2022, 08:13:13 PM
Oh yeah! One of the least popular experiments that Havelock ever created. The Q's lesser known Silver Shed, a Kubo custom exclusive.

My thanks to Dan Cluley, who managed to pull the blueprints for this from filing cabinets amongst the wreckage of the Q's Cooks Terminal Warehouse the night after the wrecking ball took out the top floor.


(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/29/2674-010722094707.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=29637)

Is this an April Fools thing? Did a prototype (or idea) for this really exist? I’m prone to believe just about anything, so go easy on me.

Craig
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: nkalanaga on July 04, 2022, 11:04:30 PM
If there's a prototype I can't find it online.  On the other hand, I still don't know if GN's #1150 "Lake Superior" or #1250 "Lake of the Isles" dining car were ever painted Big Sky Blue, due to lack of online evidence.  I know those two existed, but apparently there are no online pictures of them during the critical period.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: CBQ Fan on July 05, 2022, 09:43:27 AM
I can say with certainty that this thing never existed in real life. It is either an April fools joke or a modeler with talent and too much time.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Simon D. on July 05, 2022, 12:35:31 PM
I this what you want?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204014248514?hash=item2f80326242:g:BL0AAOSwXJRiuc~M (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204014248514?hash=item2f80326242:g:BL0AAOSwXJRiuc~M)

Pricey probably, especially with shipping from the UK.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on July 05, 2022, 01:21:36 PM
I this what you want?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204014248514?hash=item2f80326242:g:BL0AAOSwXJRiuc~M (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204014248514?hash=item2f80326242:g:BL0AAOSwXJRiuc~M)

Pricey probably, especially with shipping from the UK.

That's the one. Yeah, the shipping and customs fees might be the killer.
Thanks for the link.

Thomas  :)
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Simon D. on July 05, 2022, 06:09:21 PM
Forgot to add that if you offer about 10% less Rails often take it.  Shipping from UK often much more reasonable than the other way round.  It's been up for a little while now, so worth a try.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: keeper on July 06, 2022, 08:11:02 AM
I just asked them about the shipping costs and I found out that customs would be another 19% plus handling from the carrier.
Title: Re: Kato California Zephyr
Post by: Simon D. on July 06, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
You shouldn't have to pay the VAT (value added [sales] tax) for an exported item, which is 20%.