TheRailwire
General Discussion => Scenery Techniques => Topic started by: nuno81291 on July 14, 2020, 01:12:29 PM
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Hey gang, I am still faced with a shortage of Isopropyl at any stores near me. I am about to order some online but was wondering if anyone has a substitute for applying scenery/groundcover/ballast.
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You try Home Despot, or Lowie's?
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Water with a few drops of dishwashing detergent. I use this most of the time, because if you have used Dullcote on anything around where you're applying scenery, and you get isopropyl alcohol on the Dullcote, a strange and not-so-wonderful reaction will occur. Sometimes, you can fix it with another coat of Dullcote, and sometimes not. I try not to risk it.
Hope this helps,
DFF
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I too prefer IPA in the mix with wet water glue. But I have done it without any IPA and just added a few drops of Dawn dish soap to the mix. It helps break the surface tension like IPA but not as well and makes bubbles that you have to burst as you go.
If yo want to try it do it on a sample area and see what you think.
Or you could use cheap vodka instead, maybe, I’ve never tried that.
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I just see @davefoxx Pipped me at the post (pun intended). But yes he raises a very good point. IPA and dullcoat or the Krylon acrylic clears will react badly with any hint of IPA. Blooming into a horrible white crackle finish.
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Use Denatured Alcohol readily available at Home Depot or Lowes. It is 100% so you will have to water it down to match the 70% or 90% you are after.
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Methyl hydrate works really good as a "Wetting agent".
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Use Denatured Alcohol readily available at Home Depot or Lowes. It is 100% so you will have to water it down to match the 70% or 90% you are after.
Just remember it is flammable !
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I too prefer IPA in the mix with wet water glue. But I have done it without any IPA and just added a few drops of Dawn dish soap to the mix. It helps break the surface tension like IPA but not as well and makes bubbles that you have to burst as you go.
If yo want to try it do it on a sample area and see what you think.
Or you could use cheap vodka instead, maybe, I’ve never tried that.
Important note - IPA is isopropyl alcohol, not India Pale Ale.
You'll have significantly different experience if you try using beer.
lol
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windex
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Yes, denatured alcohol will also work as well as IPA. But 99% IPA should be easily obtainable from any hardware stores like Ace or Aubuchon. My local Ace hardware (in Billerica, MA area) has usually several 1 gallon cans in stock. And the price, while appearing high, is for one gallon of 99% IPA, compared to the small bottles of 70% or even 91% is not bad at all.
Look for it in the paint thinners section. It is called IPA99 or sometimes isopropanol 99%. If they don't have it in stock, they will gladly order it for you.
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91% IPA? 99% IPA? Aren't you guys worried about taking the paint off of anything close to the scenery, e.g., painted track, when using that strength of isopropyl alcohol? Generally, I go with 70% as a wetting agent or even to clean locomotive wheels. Am I missing something here?
DFF
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Nope, if I have 100% alcohol, no matter which type, I dilute to 70% with water. The 70% IPA is incredibly hard to get now and it's probably cheaper to buy 100% and make your own though I never did the calculation.
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If you buy 100% and leave it out it absorbs water from the air till it is 91%.
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If you buy 100% and leave it out it absorbs water from the air till it is 91%.
Or just take an empty container and mix 9 parts water to 1 part 99% IPA. Most people use concentrates in food, so why not in their hobbies?
This thread was about finding some alcohol to mix into water to make it "wetter". With that in mind, regardless what strength alcohol is added to water, it probably ends up being about 0.2% solution when used as "wet water".
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Ohhhhhhhhhh. Concentrate. I see. When I use 70% IPA, I’ve been doing it full strength. Can I dilute 70%? Does that make it less likely to react with Dullcote?
DFF
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I use a fine mister so I just use water to wet the area. Then another spray bottle or eyedropper with matte medium. Right after spraying the glue I spray water through the pump to clean it.
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That’s more or less what I do for ballast and ground cover. I use a 1 pint sized mister filled with water and about an eye-dropper full of 70% IPA (the alcohol Ed, not the beer 😀) to pre-wet the area, then I use a turkey baster (f’ing big eye dropper) to drizzle on a 1:3 mix of white glue and water. Then moist the area again with water with a few drops of Dawn.
I ballasted my Kato unitrack that way and it didn’t remove the paint. Im guessing the alcohol was just too dilute for those problems.
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Ohhhhhhhhhh. Concentrate. I see. When I use 70% IPA, I’ve been doing it full strength. Can I dilute 70%? Does that make it less likely to react with Dullcote?
DFF
I don't see why not. If you mix equal parts (50/50) of 70% IPA and water, it will roughly result in 35% IPA. That should have less of an effect on dullcote, but you should test it for yourself.
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You guys had me worried, especially with a new layout project on my near horizon. One of the Walgreens up here in Boulder (I'm working in-person again...sigh) had 36 oz bottles in stock. I'll likely thin it 50/50 with water at go-time though given the uncertainty surrounding supply.
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You guys had me worried, especially with a new layout project on my near horizon. One of the Walgreens up here in Boulder (I'm working in-person again...sigh) had 36 oz bottles in stock. I'll likely thin it 50/50 with water at go-time though given the uncertainty surrounding supply.
It would still be worth trying to visit a hardware store to see if you can grab a gallon can of 99% IPA. That should last you for quite some time.
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I just see @davefoxx Pipped me at the post (pun intended). But yes he raises a very good point. IPA and dullcoat or the Krylon acrylic clears will react badly with any hint of IPA. Blooming into a horrible white crackle finish.
Sometimes, it's not so horrible, @Steveruger45 :
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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Josh, that does look good. I’m guessing that was a “Happy Accident “ as Bob Ross might have said.
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Three metal roofs using the Dullcote/alcohol haze reaction intentionally:
[attachimg=1]
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Three metal roofs using the Dullcote/alcohol haze reaction intentionally:
Same.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/3/1158-071217143734-36351067.jpeg)
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Same.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/3/1158-071217143734-36351067.jpeg)
Wow!
That is a gorgeous, and very realistic-looking model!
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Best wetting agent I have ever used is Kodak Photo-flo, used in film (remember that?) processing to prevent water spots
on negatives. It is still available from Amazon or Adorama Camera. Like detergent, you only need a few drops.
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Best wetting agent I have ever used is Kodak Photo-flo, used in film (remember that?) processing to prevent water spots
on negatives. It is still available from Amazon or Adorama Camera. Like detergent, you only need a few drops.
Yes, I remember it being mentioned on one of the '60s vintage Scenery books from Kalmbach.
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Well I’m happy to report that some plain old water with a drop of dish soap did the trick. Works so well that I wonder why I started using isopropyl in the first place :? :?
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dish soap is what I've always used. Not only is it non-toxic, unless swallowed, it's also almost odor-free. And most homes have some.
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I've never gone the IPA route because plain old water with a drop or two of Dawn in my atomizer works so well. I always pre-wet scenery and ballast before applying Elmer's white glue/water/detergent mixture of "glue" to the scene with a big dosing eyedropper...but, it's important when pre-wetting to have a very fine "atomized" mist, and not big drops raining down on freshly contoured ballast or dirt which will easily crater what you've spent your precious time getting just right, which means that large spray applicators such as old 409 sprayers or the equivalent you can buy brand new, always have much too coarse water droplets and too much velocity. An easy solution is the small spray applicators you can buy for CA "Zip-Kicker"/"Accelerator" at your LHS, which produce a very fine, low-velocity mist.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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That’s good advice on the sprayer. Personally, I still prefer the IPA route for consistency. I’ve had issues using the drop of soap approach when some idiot (usually me) shakes or drops the bottle and bubbles are suddenly everywhere I don’t want them to be.