Sprung Kato GG1 pantographs

[Robbman]

Ok Bryan,  I guess I'll have to wait and see the results.  If it works - great!  If it doesn't - don't say that I didn't warn you that the equalizer holes were too close to the pivot points. 

I'm also curious how you will retain the 0.010" linkage rods. On factory made pantographs ends of those linkages are normally flattened by some sort of machine.  I also think that 0.010" wire is a bit too thin. But then again, I shall wait and see.  If I were in your position, I would not commit to production until I had a working proof of concept first, but again, you own a model manufacturing company while I just sit on my behind making comments (based on my experience and on "Peteski's logic"). 

What brain is doing IS a proof of concept... nothing was ever said about making it a production item, just finding a way to add them to he Kato model.  Your logic and experience are best put towards reading a thread from top to bottom... this isn't Trainboard or Atlas... you will get dinged for being an a$$ (not an a$$hat) for no reason.

[Ian MacMillan]

you will get dinged for being an a$$ (not an a$$hat) for no reason.

This you know well 

[sizemore]

Looks like Bryan wants to re-do  the bottom arms of that pantograph. If he uses blue finish, it won't match the top pieces (which have brown/black finish).

I was referring to the technique, "Bluing" can be different colors based on the composition of the Bluing compound such as performing "Cold" bluing with results in a black/dark grey finish.

The S.

[peteski]

What brain is doing IS a proof of concept... nothing was ever said about making it a production item, just finding a way to add them to he Kato model.  Your logic and experience are best put towards reading a thread from top to bottom... this isn't Trainboard or Atlas... you will get dinged for being an a$$ (not an a$$hat) for no reason.

Ok, instead of "proof of concept" should I have said "a prototype"?  To me an arbitrary (at least in my view) drawing is not enough of a proof that Bryan's design is sound and will actually function as expected.  My experience (yes, that again) tells me that Bryan's design most likely will not work properly.

BTW, you have no idea about how extensive my modeling experience is so I think your comment was out of line.  If you yourself read through the entire thread, you should realize that I not only read through the entire thread, I have been actively participating in this discussion from the beginning (as my first reply is a 3rd post from the top).   

I'm also man enough to admit that I was commenting from memory, not having the item on-hand.  I now dug out the pantographs (both Kato and Arnold) and I agree with Bryan that it will be difficult to come up with a design which will result in equalized and sprung pantograph without modifying either the base of the panto or the locomotive's body. But I still have my doubts whether Bryan's design (as it is now) will work well enough. I'm entitled to my opinion, ain't I? I'm not trying to be negative - just realistic.

As far as a$$uming that this will be a production item, since Bryan does not disguise the fact that he is ESM, that's why I thought this might become a production item. Can you blame me for assuming that?

Sizemore: I took your wording too literally. 

[Hiroe]

I'd also be interested in a few (dozen) sets, should this project work out.

[Hiroe]

Actually, thinking about this the last few days, I'm wondering if maybe this project needs to go in a different direction.

A counter-proposal: I will supply a few of the older Arnold/Rapido/Sommerfeldt box pans, that can then be disassembled, and the sheet-metal parts laid flat so that artwork can be taken from them. The lower arms are stamped sheet parts, the upper arms are formed wire. Modify the artwork of the lower arms, extending them to the proper dimensions for PRR prototype pans, and the artwork for the base to allow the mounting of pins that will engage the stock mounting holes on the kato shell. (the shoes can be adjusted for size if someone prefers; but I find them acceptable as-is.) Then, it's a simple matter of etching all the parts from brass, and assembling them into a working pantograph; using thin brass or PB wire for the upper arms, equalizers, and X braces on both upper and lower arms. (I'll even volunteer to build these myself, if provided with the etched parts.) Once it's assembled, the whole pan can then be dipped in chemical blackener. This would result in a nicely sprung pan, complete with latching tabs, capable of operating on working wire.

--Drew

[bbussey]

I actually did that a few years back, adapting the Arnold design to match the dimensions of the American prototype.   While you would have fully functional pan (including from an electrical standpoint) you would then lose the prototypical detail at the base of the pan (including the more prototypical mounting pins under the insulators).  The Kato pan can be made to conduct electricity by adapting the Arnold pickup shoe design to the existing Kato design, which would take far less effort than equalizing the Kato pan.

It should be possible to have the best of all worlds on the Kato pan - adding equalization and possibly electrical conductivity, without sacrificing existing detail or compromising the host body (other than to drill a hole for a feeder wire to the pan frame).

The pickup shoe would have to change over to metal anyway if it would be constantly rubbing against wire or etched metal catenary.

[nkalanaga]

"The pickup shoe would have to change over to metal anyway if it would be constantly rubbing against wire or etched metal catenary."

Agreed.  My first "working" pans used plastic shoes.  The total run under wire was about six feet, and the trains may have run once a week, out and back one time.  After less than a year, and probably 600 to 700 feet of actual running, the styrene was noticeably worn.  Actual USE would probably wear it out in a few operating sessions.  Delrin or something similar would probably work better, but metal would likely be cheaper, as well as usable for pickup.

[DKS]

I know I'm way late to this party, but I thought folks might like to know that Tomix of Japan makes literally dozens of different pantographs, all available as replacement parts from Hobby Search. Supply may be a little spotty, but you never know--there are pages and pages of them:

http://www.1999.co.jp/search_e.asp?Typ1_c=104&SC=1000&Typ=0&sortID=1&scope=1&urikire=0&andor=0&scope2=0&SFlt_f=0&SFilter=Manufacturer&ItKey=Tomix&SPage=2

[bbussey]

I have the new etched lower pans in hand, but I haven't had time to work with them yet due to other commitments.  Maybe this weekend, we'll see.