NP Passenger car paint color mini-project

[mmagliaro]

I use a mix of Walthers, custom-painted Kato, Con-Cor, and Rapido cars to make up a somewhat "foobie" North Coast Limited.  (I say "foobie" because none of the cars are made from accurate car sides places onto cores, and although I
have baggage, diner, coaches, and domes, I certainly don't have a correct mix of them).

But be that as it may, one thing that always irked me was that the one Rapido Panorama car I have stood out like a sore thumb because the dark green top half of the car is almost black... much darker than any other manufacturer's version
of the NP passenger dark green.  Rapido claims that they got their color from the NP Railway Historic Society.  I have to say, I dispute this.  And below, I'll show why.

So, I placed the Rapido, a custom-painted Kato (not painted by me) and Con-Cor car next to the actual color sample card I got in the set from the NPRHA.  In the card set, the NPRHA says that the paint on this card came from an ACTUAL can of the real paint used to paint the NCL cars.  Now, you can argue that paints age in the can, and that photos have color variance in them.  But I still say, you probably can't do better than having a sample of the actual paint used on the actual car. 


MAKE SURE YOU BLOW THIS PHOTO UP TO FULL SIZE ON A NICE BRIGHT MONITOR so you can really see the colors.
It's hard to render colors in a compute setting and having them really come out the way they look in real life.
(On my browser, I can click on the image, and it will show it full-size, with scrollbars all the way at the bottom and
far right so you can see the colors better)

As you can see from the 3 cars on the left, the Rapido (top) is clearly too dark.  (well, I hope you can see it...   )

Surprisingly (if you read the articles on the web), the Con-Cor car at the bottom is VERY close to the correct color.
Nearly everywhere I see those cars mentioned, people say they are the "wrong color."  The Kato is light, but in my view, not as far off as the Rapido.

I took the color card to a paint store (a real paint store, not a "big box" home store), and they mixed me a quart of
solvent-based enamel to match that card.  I think they did a great job.  I put it in the airbrush, cut 50/50 with mineral spirits, and repainted the top half of my Rapido car.

The photo on the right is the "after".  I am much happier with the new color.  In a line of cars, the Rapido no longer stands out "like a sore thumb".

I also learned two things.
1. Yes, you can get enamels mixed in a home paint store, if they are solvent based, and they'll spray just fine
from an airbrush (make sure you thin them first, of course).

2. Don't try spraying DullCote over enamel!  Ick... The first time I tried this, the DullCote made the enamel completely crinkle up and it was ruined.  I had to strip it all off and repaint it.  Then, I used a matte polyurethane spray, followed by light dustings of DullCote and it worked fine.

[Sokramiketes]

Nice job on the dark green match.  I'm partial to the Scalecoat NP light and dark greens but haven't compared to the NPHS issued drift cards.

I'm curious about your experience with Dullcote over enamel.  The whole Testor's line of enamel paint is fine under Dullcote (lacquer).  So either a different chemical composition in the paint store paint, or insufficient cure time is likely to blame.  I just sprayed some flat cars with Dullcote today which were painted yesterday with Testor's enamel - no problem.

[mmagliaro]

Nice job on the dark green match.  I'm partial to the Scalecoat NP light and dark greens but haven't compared to the NPHS issued drift cards.

I'm curious about your experience with Dullcote over enamel.  The whole Testor's line of enamel paint is fine under Dullcote (lacquer).  So either a different chemical composition in the paint store paint, or insufficient cure time is likely to blame.  I just sprayed some flat cars with Dullcote today which were painted yesterday with Testor's enamel - no problem.

I've done that too, and not had a problem.  I let the enamel dry 48 hours and it felt awfully dry.  The second time,  I let it dry 72,
and on a test piece off to the side, Dullcote would still ruin it.  At the store, they said, "Oh, no, you can't spray laquer over enamel.  It will crinkle it, no matter how long you let it dry")   
I suspect it's the actual enamel formula.  I did some quick poking around the web and found more than one hobby/paint article that says, in effect, that hobby lacquers over Testors enamels are just fine,  but that in general, lacquer over enamel is a bad idea.

[eja]

Yea !

Max is here !   

Hi (former) Atlas  friend... 

I bow in respect to your modeling skills ...


eja

[nkalanaga]

I'm also a fan of the Scalecoat NP colors, and have painted both brass and plastic cars with their spray cans (no airbrush).  Scalecoat II works fine on plastic, but takes several days to dry hard, at least here in humid Appalachia.  Scalecoat I can be baked on brass car sides, and is almost impossible to damage after baking.  Neither Dullcote or Glosscote have ever damaged either one.

I wish they'd make GN Big Sky Blue and Glacier Green.  Their Empire Builder colors are as nice as the NP.

On the other hand, don't try baking Krylon.  The results are not pretty...

N Kalanaga

[mmagliaro]

Yea !

Max is here !   

Hi (former) Atlas  friend... 

I bow in respect to your modeling skills ...


eja

Oh brother.... 
I mean, thanks, but... oh brother!

Hello to you too, and to all the Atlas friends who are making the leap.

[mmagliaro]

I'm also a fan of the Scalecoat NP colors, and have painted both brass and plastic cars with their spray cans (no airbrush).  Scalecoat II works fine on plastic, but takes several days to dry hard, at least here in humid Appalachia.  Scalecoat I can be baked on brass car sides, and is almost impossible to damage after baking.  Neither Dullcote or Glosscote have ever damaged either one.

I wish they'd make GN Big Sky Blue and Glacier Green.  Their Empire Builder colors are as nice as the NP.

On the other hand, don't try baking Krylon.  The results are not pretty...

N Kalanaga

I agree with the fans of Scalecoat.  It was alwaye my favorite paint for all my PRR and NYC stuff.   Sprays beautifully in an airbrush, dries to a rock-hard finish that feels like factory paint, and covers superbly.  I just wasn't sure that the NP colors would really match,
given all the variation I see among the commercial products. 

Well, that, and it was a Saturday, and I couldn't quickly get my hands on Scalecoat, and I was really intrigued by trying
the experiment of getting a paint store to mix paint for a train project, and seeing how it would come out.

There was one guy there who was particularly familiar with spraying from airbrushes and he really seemed to know his
paint chemistry.   He was sure it would work as long as I was using a compressor to atomize the paint, and he was right.

The only thing I might do differently is try a 60/40  paint/thinner mix instead of 50/50.   50/50 was very watery.  It went on great,
and it didn't run.  But I had to spray over the car quite a few times to build up some color.  But then, that's not a bad thing
because it keeps the details crisp.  Either that, or ease up on the pressure.  I had it pretty high at about 25 psi (I was paranoid about spraying "thick hardware store paint" out of the airbrush.

[CBQ Fan]

I think the Rapido cars look good and the WOT cars are very, very close.  I threw in a Centraila diner for good measure and the dark green is a little on the light side but still looks good!

[GN Goat]

I agree the Rapido cars look dark.  Since I use IM F diesels to pull my NP passenger train, I used Walthers cars, because they match the InterMountain locos pretty well.   I have one Rapido car.  I use it as an "observation" car to bring up the rear.  Either way, the North Coast Ltd is the prettiest passenger train ever IMO.

[nkalanaga]

I model 1974, so paint match isn't quite as critical to me.  Both NP and GN paint had been fading for at least four years by the time then.  It is nice to see at least some manufacturers trying to be accurate.  Years ago there were some very strange colors on even the better models...

That said, Intermountain/CCS need to check their Big Sky Blue.  It is way too dark, at least for passenger cars.  I could probably weather a freight car and make it acceptable.  Their Empire Builder, NP, and BN paints look fine to me.

[Nato]

                        If you look back in the archives for this group you will see pix of my NCL train,usuing Con Cor factory  painted cars and Kato Smoothside cars that were custom painted for me.The factory painted (not custom) Rapido cars look pretty good,but Con Cor wins. The Walthers color is definately off,Intermountain Centrailia is also not too bad.Con Cor improved the colors used on their cars when they started selling them as open stock items, they previously did a Limited  Edition Train Set. The old Accu Flex NP colors were  very good. Maybe 16 years ago Con Cor announced that they would be usuing Scale Coat paint on their cars. Their UP cars which were at first too orange-yellow color and then a pale canarry yellow have looked just right to me ever since so I believe they must still be usuing Scale Coat on their cars and locomotives.Remember the first company to offer NP two tone green was good old Arnold Rapido in the 1970's.I have Brass Car Sides sides for the dome sleepers which I have yet to paint and install on Con Cor dome cars. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake,Utah.

[mmagliaro]

I agree the Rapido cars look dark.  Since I use IM F diesels to pull my NP passenger train, I used Walthers cars, because they match the InterMountain locos pretty well.   I have one Rapido car.  I use it as an "observation" car to bring up the rear.  Either way, the North Coast Ltd is the prettiest passenger train ever IMO.

Interesting that you mention the diesels.  I have an ABBA set of Kato F7's custom-painted (not by me) and they are on the light side as well,
so they match my Walthers cars the best.  But on the whole, they are close enough to the Con-Cor and others I have that
I think the train looks good.  The one Rapido car always stood out... that's why I repainted it.   It don't mind if every car isn't an exact match.
I just didn't want one "weird" one in the mix.   
(If I was really that determined, I'd strip them all and airbrush them all with one shade!)

[nkalanaga]

Max:  That's also my opinion.  A slightly incorrect, but matched, train looks a lot better than a mismatched one.  No two prototype photos ever seem to be exactly the same, no two layouts have exactly the same lighting, and no two people see colors exactly the same.  But everyone can see if two colors match when they're looking at them side by side.