TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: daniel_leavitt2000 on November 10, 2009, 06:49:18 PM
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I don't know if this has been discussed, but Red Caboose put up an ad in the latest issue of RMC (page 94 I think) auctioning off their tooling. I guess IM was only borrowing it. I hope someone reliable purchases it.
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I'd heard about this, but don't know any details. I would think if IM were interested, they would have bought it already when they entered into their partnership earlier this year. It would be a shame if this product line were to languish, especially the auto-racks. I guess this means that the bulkhead flat that was in development is not to be.
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Any rumours on "tooling cost"??????????
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Perhaps it is some of their tooling, not all? Maybe some older stuff, or HO or O?
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I sort of thought the bulkheads were dead - with Atlas doing them in HO - and hopefully in N...
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The tooling is being auctioned off in three lots, one for each scale. The ad seemed to indicate that this was all the tooling for the company.
Man, think of what Blueford or Fox Valley could do with this. The cars are all tooled very well, but printing wasn't always top notch. I think both companies could do a lot with it.
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I wonder if this affects the RC announcements at IM?
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Somebody told me last sumemr that the tooling had been for sale for awhile but the asking price was way too high. They are probably trying to get the best price possible.
Yes there is an excellent oppurtunity to get some great tooling......if the price is right. But remember that many manufacturers $ are pretty tied up right now and the funds may not be available.
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I sort of thought the bulkheads were dead - with Atlas doing them in HO - and hopefully in N...
Which bulkheads were they going to do?
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I'd love to see Atlas buy RC's O-scale tooling, and add it to their own line.
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I hope someone buys the old Precision Masters couplers.
Those are unique and reliable replacements for the Rapido. I still use them for some equipment.
Ron
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Man, think of what Blueford or Fox Valley could do with this. The cars are all tooled very well, but printing wasn't always top notch. I think both companies could do a lot with it.
I don't think there's much you can do with RC's tooling. They ran pretty much every car to death and milked them for almost every road name. There are some possibilities, but nothing earth shattering...
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I think the plan was to do the same ones Atlas did - high and low bulkhead ends on the 73' cars.
RC announced them in N/HO before Atlas - then Atlas did - and then the RC project seemed to die.
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I liked their autoracks, and have a ton of the modern "beer cars".
From what I've seen, the autoracks would be the only big "seller", but that market has been hit hard, and pretty much full. There's no more "12 number frenzy" on autoracks, or the beer cars.
Buying/owning tooling is just one small step in the manufacturing process. Paint and assembly is the challenge that the buyer also has to deal with.
Might end up in a "cottage/garage" type business. One small injection machine, run the parts, build up some inventory, then get them painted/boxed/etc.
Hard to say what may happen to the tooling.
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I don't think there's much you can do with RC's tooling. They ran pretty much every car to death and milked them for almost every road name. There are some possibilities, but nothing earth shattering...
I disagree with such a blanket statement, for example who else has a 4740 covered hopper? A lot of the stuff was run so long ago that many people have since entered the hobby that are not even aware of the stuff.
Improved decoration would be a huge plus to some of us.
Mark
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I want to know where the surplus stock went. During the "housecleaning" I bought two dozen 57' mech reefer kits - 12 different PFE numbers each of two underframe styles. They were able to send one of every number, which makes me think that there were bins (and bins and bins) of these things. If I had any idea that the stock was going to flat vanish from the planet I would've doubled the order.
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There is some merit to what AH is saying. Several of the cars were run to death. The Autorack is an excellent car, but the price point made it a pnly a so-so seller at a profitable street price. So many showed up on the auction sites or on clearance it was very hard to make a profit on the car.
The Centerbeams did pretty well but unless there a re a bunch of new roads, a new production run might not sell as well. The Atlas HO car is a different car I believe.
Th Coil cars did quite well. IM posted in their Modellers club newsletter that they had not received enough advance reservations on the new run and would hold the eservations open again. But they aree the same schemes that have already been done, some fairly recently. Although, they were popular schemes, how many more can you sell? There are still a fair amount of schemes that have not been done.....like the 2 most popular C&O Hood schemes.
I too widh for more 4700 and 4740 Grain Hopper schemes. Especially the 4700's. There are a ton that haven;t been done yet and some would sell quite well in N I believe.
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My search for the 6 numbers of the N&W (hamburger) scheme on the 4740s spanned this decade and I'm still one number short. Although the lettering is fairly accurate there are no end reporting marks. That's how long ago these were run.
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I'm still kicking myself for not stocking up on the coil cars when they were available. I've got two of the NW cars, and was eyeballing some Reading ones when Mr. Wallet said "no"....
These are extremely common prototypes, and I don't think the demand for them has been fully met. The new Atlas coil car is promising, but it's too modern for those of us still wearing Polyester and listening to vinyl records...
Lee
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I would love to see a number of these cars upgraded: etched roof walks to the covered hoppers (with the present tooling, this is difficult for users because they are molded on); etched walkways and stirrups on the coil cars; fix the tooling on the open and single-panel center beams to make them more correct (they're pretty close, but still). Also, I wonder if the auto-rack tooling could be readily adapted to a tri-level rack? I agree that the bi-levels have probably saturated, but there are still some schemes one could do (more BN please) and demand will no doubt rebound in time since this is likely to be state-of-the-art for a while to come.
This raises a general question for an amateur like me: is tooling like this adaptable, or would one just have to start over with changes like this? I suppose it depends how the tooling is designed.
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I agree that the bi-levels have probably saturated, but there are still some schemes one could do (more BN please) and demand will no doubt rebound in time since this is likely to be state-of-the-art for a while to come.
There are definately more schemes, including one which I would have bought. 8)
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How about this scheme?
http://railbaron.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1818783
Good stuff!
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One could use the bi-level tooling as the basis for a rack with enclosed sides but no ends or roof (RTR), or as the basis for a tri-level. And that flat could become a twin-45 or something similar.
And I could always go for six more numbers of the bi-levels for CP Rail (black), CPAA (red), GTW (blue), and CN (black)... cars that were around in 1987-89.
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I'm after the black "NW" scheme (not that crappy 1980s boxcar red scheme!). I bought one of the RC cars to dissect and repaint into the N&W black scheme.
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I hope whoever does them does them up in a FEMA paint scheme:
http://www.rense.com/general58/fearthecomingtrain.htm
I think it'd be fun to mess with the NWO conspiracy crowd...
Ahahahhahahahahaahahahah
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Death Camps for Cutie!
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Here's the NW scheme I'm talking about:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=47242
(photo taken by a guy that works in the model rr business)
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I hope whoever does them does them up in a FEMA paint scheme:
http://www.rense.com/general58/fearthecomingtrain.htm
I think it'd be fun to mess with the NWO conspiracy crowd...
Ahahahhahahahahaahahahah
It gets even worse when you read the comments to the video. How do those people survive from one day to the next I'll never understand? The definition of stupid can be found in the ramblings of the coment section of that first video.
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The definition of stupid can be found in the ramblings of the coment section of that first video.
I'd say pretty much ALL of youtube!
Quote my favorite video of all time:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6204903272262158881#
"This is worse than reading youtube comments!"
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And what really sucks is that Walthers is probably NEVER going to bring that FEMA Death Camp kit they just announced to N-scale!
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It's people! Soylent Green is people!
;D
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Ahahahahahahahahahahhahaahah
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Yeah, that's the ticket... combine bits of a Walthers steel mill and a Plastruct refinery and you'll have a pretty good Soylent plant. Anybody make a half-decent rear-load garbage truck?
(A module idea in the making? THAT would sure weird-out a lot of people. [evil grin])
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RC's n scale lacked too much detail to really ever attack me.
They have a large selection on N scale body styles, but for some reason could never crack more than a foot or two of shelf space at the LHS.? The N scale offerings were not to the same standard as the HO or O...too bad because they have some cars that are near misses. :-\ :'( :o
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It's funny you mention that, when I was at MBK, we had gotten a BUNCH of their centerbeams.
RC's problem, in my book, was that they never really got release scheduling figured out.
They'd do a TON of stuff, all at once, and flood the market (cannibalizing their own sales - Do I want the CN centerbeams this month, or the cool looking NOKL ones?). Then they'd go dormant for a while.
Also, they would tend to do this only with individual car types, for example, 2005 was the year of the centerbeam, then there was the year of the autorack, then...
Some of the newer guys seem to have gotten it much more right: Bluford's "This mont we're doing modern, next month 80s, next month 60s" schemes on cars, or FVM's "This month hoppers, next month, Soo boxes, then other boxes, then GEVOs" approach. This way the pipeline gets itself cleared up for focused modelers, and you always have something with the "what's new and cool" buzz.
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It's funny you mention that, when I was at MBK, we had gotten a BUNCH of their centerbeams.
RC's problem, in my book, was that they never really got release scheduling figured out.
They'd do a TON of stuff, all at once, and flood the market (cannibalizing their own sales - Do I want the CN centerbeams this month, or the cool looking NOKL ones?). Then they'd go dormant for a while.
Also, they would tend to do this only with individual car types, for example, 2005 was the year of the centerbeam, then there was the year of the autorack, then...
Very true. All at once!
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It's funny you mention that, when I was at MBK, we had gotten a BUNCH of their centerbeams.
RC's problem, in my book, was that they never really got release scheduling figured out.
They'd do a TON of stuff, all at once, and flood the market (cannibalizing their own sales - Do I want the CN centerbeams this month, or the cool looking NOKL ones?). Then they'd go dormant for a while.
Also, they would tend to do this only with individual car types, for example, 2005 was the year of the centerbeam, then there was the year of the autorack, then...
Some of the newer guys seem to have gotten it much more right: Bluford's "This mont we're doing modern, next month 80s, next month 60s" schemes on cars, or FVM's "This month hoppers, next month, Soo boxes, then other boxes, then GEVOs" approach. This way the pipeline gets itself cleared up for focused modelers, and you always have something with the "what's new and cool" buzz.
That's true. Most of us are on some sort of budget so if a lot of what we want is offered at one time we might have to pass up potential purchases. Also, as consumers we may not like the limited availability of rolling stock, but we're less inclined to shell out our shekels now if we knew that the manufacturer (and dealers) would have these things sitting around for years. From a manufactureres prospective, inventory on the shelf = money on the shelf.
Erik
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Exactly.
And at the higher volume retailers, they simply don't have the shelf space for it all, so then it comes in, sits, and gets blown out later at a deeper discount.
The consumer wins financially, but loses because, as we see, it's an unsustainable model.
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You guys get all the more modern cars. I've got a tone of their X29's and I'm glad I did. Actually I usually got them at a decent price. Wish I could find more of the corrigated end one thou as it seems they flooded the market years ago with the straight end X29's.
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Yea but, if you go to a store, what does an empty shelf equal ?
???
There is nothing more pathetic than a hobby store with one or two crummy things left in stock.
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I'll agree with the Fest or Famon marketing by Red Caboose. Another thing that may have hurt them is lack of a distribution network. Now with IM distributing them and timing the releases, maybe things can be reborn. RC has some very niche filling cars that would be a shame to loose.
As a shop, we would have loved to carry the product before but discount was horrible dealing with Walthers. I know we wouldn't sell enough to deal with RC direct. A smaller shop can only sell so many $40 autoracks before their customer base is tapped out and that seemed to be all that was coming out at the time. At at that, even though the road names are all over the place in a real train, customers still tend to buy just the locals so we would be waiting for quite a long time between useable releases.
I hope IM does something positive with RC and keeps the releases flowing and varried. We ordered quite a few of the coil cars for the shop and now it seem like they just might not happen. There is more to life than Centerbeams and Autoracks, the X-29 and flats were very welcome releases to see from IM.
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I'm hoping to get one of the 42' flat cars ...
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I'm after the black "NW" scheme (not that crappy 1980s boxcar red scheme!). I bought one of the RC cars to dissect and repaint into the N&W black scheme.
I like the crappy 1980s boxcar red scheme. In fact, I gave RC all the info to do the billboard scheme. But previously I had made my own replacing the standard etched panels with new mesh ones, along with new etched ends.
(http://bbussey.net/ns/p/aTTGX977222.jpg) (http://bbussey.net/ns/p/aTTGX977222d.jpg)
TTGX 977222 (NW) (http://bbussey.net/ns/aTTGX977222.htm)
It will be a shame to lose these cars from the market, both from a kitbashing standpoint and additional potential model variations.
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I'm hoping to get one of the 42' flat cars ...
I've got 2 sets of the PRR MOW equipment which has 2 flats (one yelloe, and one gray). If you want the gray one, we can work something out.
Bob
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It will be a shame to lose these cars from the market, both from a kitbashing standpoint and additional potential model variations.
What is to say they will disappear? Maybe for a time until the molds are purchased, but when (and I guess if) they are bought, the new owners will have the nicest autoracks in N scale. It'll be a real shame and a backwards step for N if they disappear permanently, but if they do, I have about 25 that don't fit in with my new era so I've some bashing fodder going forward for a while (long while).
I won't touch the RC covered hoppers, but the centrebeams, 62' RBL's, and the bi-levels are well represented in my fleet. I'm also looking to get a few of their 57' refers... don't own any yet but the look nice enough in pictures. The twelve numbers at a time was a bit much, six seems better (unless you just have to have seven of something). I really, really love the bi-levels RC made; great looking, capture the feel of the prototype, and they were not too bad on the wallet given the street price.
NW, I like the billboard N&W (have two of them), but I'll take the black one you're wishing for, too.
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Man Im hoping to build a fleet of their auto racks...but I just cant afford to buy 150 of them off the bat! Lets hope they stick around in the market and shows for me to buy over the years!
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I think Atlas should buy the N scale tooling and run with it. They could sex up the hoppers with etched walks and finer end detail like their 5701 grain hoppers, upgrade the coil car to complement their upcoming NSC car, and have the finest auto-rack in the business, in any scale.
I like the crappy 1980s boxcar red scheme. In fact, I gave RC all the info to do the billboard scheme. But previously I had made my own replacing the standard etched panels with new mesh ones, along with new etched ends.
Bryan, I saw those accordion doors on your web site - very cool! That would be a neat detail item to market, if your ever so inclined.
Man Im hoping to build a fleet of their auto racks...but I just cant afford to buy 150 of them off the bat!
Kleins has more than 100 in stock for $25 a pop, and they'll probably be around for a while. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for new racks. Road name selection is still decent.
-Gary
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RC is grouping all the tooling as a one-shot sale and not piecing it out, so the odds of an Atlas picking off the most recent tooling and adding it to the Hillside stable is unlikely at the current time. The old Precision Masters tooling such as the 40' reefers is included, which even RC hasn't released in years, so that might be causing pause among potential buyers as well.
I etched a bunch of different doors (Portec, RAVE, Tri-Folds, etc) to create a number of auto rack models for a 30-car consist article I'm supposed to be writing for NSR, but I still have about 25% of the train to finish construction on, plus I have to weather them all, plus I have to finish the West Shore module it will be staged on. It's going to be a while yet, as other things have taken priority at the moment. I don't know if the doors are in marketable form though, as I would push them through ESM which means the packaging and such would have to be "market ready." As part of ESM's "parts push" we'll be testing the theory with the Creco doors, of which the etchings arrived yesterday and will be packaged and ready to go sometime next week.
bb
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Kleins has more than 100 in stock for $25 a pop, and they'll probably be around for a while. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for new racks. Road name selection is still decent.
-Gary
I've picked up 20+ from MBK since they were blowing them out. Entirely fallen flags and early schemes that now work with my plans. I have 63 in my era and 15 that are too late for my era... but they can become fodder for the knife. Long have I waited for good N scale racks and I support the mfg by purchasing them. Now that Bluford and Trainworx are doing the other side of the auto industry equation, AP boxes, I'm in buy mode for those and the racks, not so much right now, though a final total near 100 would be nice. What we need is a nice frame flat and I'll have all the equipment needed to model an assembly plant (well, the RR part of it at least). Oh, a pickup or SUV from the late 1980's would be nice to fill the storage lot by the loading ramps.
Maybe my out of era racks will get some of your doors, Brian...
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I'd be interested in some doors too - once I figure out which doors the racks should have - either through ESM or privately. No hurry though... many more projects ahead of the racks in the schedule....
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Kleins has more than 100 in stock for $25 a pop, and they'll probably be around for a while. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for new racks. Road name selection is still decent.
-Gary
Wife still wont give me $3750!
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Kleins has more than 100 in stock for $25 a pop, and they'll probably be around for a while. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for new racks. Road name selection is still decent.
-Gary
Wife still wont give me $3750!
What's wrong with her? ;D
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Wife still wont give me $3750!
Dude, what is wrong with you? Sell her car and buy the auto racks. Easy Peesy.
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Kleins has more than 100 in stock for $25 a pop, and they'll probably be around for a while. That's the lowest price I've ever seen for new racks. Road name selection is still decent.
While there are several schemes still to do and hopefully somebody will do them; at $25 a pop, MB Klein is not really breaking even on them one you count the cost of the sale. Many dealers will be wary of ordereing a large amount as they won;t be able to amke a profit on them. They are excellent cars but it's going to be a tough sell to whoever buys the tooling, unless they get it at a good discount. The other cars however, most would still do pretty well. The Coilcars, especially if they will release them with the hoods not pemanently attached will do well as there a re a bunch of schemes that haven;t been done yet. The Beer cars and Mechanical reeferes still do pretty well. About the only ones that did proorly were the X29's and 40' reefers.
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While there are several schemes still to do and hopefully somebody will do them; at $25 a pop, MB Klein is not really breaking even on them one you count the cost of the sale. Many dealers will be wary of ordereing a large amount as they won;t be able to amke a profit on them. They are excellent cars but it's going to be a tough sell to whoever buys the tooling, unless they get it at a good discount...
Oooh, I have to disagree with you on that point. I helped RC with a number of the auto rack schemes, and happen to know that the model was extremely popular for them. But as someone pointed out up thread, the condensed release schedule eventually affected the demand. Yet, 11 releases consisting of 45 cars hardly constitutes a slow mover. And that's not including the BNSF special run for BLW, the Ferromex that got scrapped because the contractor did not make the car properly, and a few schemes that were on the board but did not get into production.
If the auto rack tooling ever became available to me, I would be looking to make tooling additions to add to the appeal. The design of the current model is extremely well designed and fully modular. It would not be difficult to model racks manufactured by someone other than Thrall, additional types of doors other than the full clamshells, roof variations, and of course additional stamped side panel variations. The roofless, doorless, and roofless/doorless variants also could be done, which opens up dozens more possible schemes.
Food for thought, for anyone picking up the surplus auto racks from MBK to strip and repaint - RC made close to 20 different panel configurations to accommodate heralds, so try to secure a car that matches the model you're planning on making.
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Oooh, I have to disagree with you on that point. I helped RC with a number of the auto rack schemes, and happen to know that the model was extremely popular for them. But as someone pointed out up thread, the condensed release schedule eventually affected the demand. Yet, 11 releases consisting of 45 cars hardly constitutes a slow mover. And that's not including the BNSF special run for BLW, the Ferromex that got scrapped because the contractor did not make the car properly, and a few schemes that were on the board but did not get into production.
Good point on the condensed release schedule affecting demand. The fact that alot of cars started showing up on Ebay at greatly reduced prices and you can find deep discounts thru many dealers is further evceidence of that. That also means dealers will probably be very wary of ordering large numbers w/o buyers. Of course with the pricing of the new Bay Windows the gap in pricing is closing a bit, but it's still a sizeable gap.
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A gap that would no doubt increase with any newly-produced auto racks.
In spite of it being the best N scale auto rack model ever, there is a glut of the current model. The only viable option in introducing more auto racks into the market at this point would be to introduce the variations - but even that may not bear fruit until the surplus of the original shrinks more significantly.
The down side is the situation is bad for the auto rack market. The small upside is that there is material available for kitbashers.
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Wife still wont give me $3750!
What's wrong with her? ;D
Wife still wont give me $3750!
Dude, what is wrong with you? Sell her car and buy the auto racks. Easy Peesy.
Something about being an adult and responsibility and cant immediately burn away all my money on trains...blah blah blah... ;D
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Well folks, it looks like the reality of this sale so far, is all or nothing for the tooling.
What do you think they will bring????
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Was at the GTE Show in Denver 2 weekends ago. The former owner of RC was there selling RS. Don't everyone shed too many tears...... Cars were $4.00 EA. Mostly boxcars and centerbeams. The Grang Railroad Gang pretty much cleaned him out. ;D