TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: bbussey on January 25, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
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Had the opportunity to see samples of the Micro-Trains single window coach last night, as did @peteski. Looks very very good. The February releases on the model will be NYC (four-wheel truck) and 1960s PRR (six-wheel truck), both of which will be on display today. Four-side tooling on the roof. New Haven McGinnis within the next couple of months.
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Thanks for the heads up, Bryan.
And thanks to @Shipsure and the rest of the crew at MT for their persistence in making this model- and waiting to release it until they really "got it right" even though we've been clamoring for it for a decade. Or at least, I have been. Here's hoping the car is a big success for MT.
I think I will pick up a couple of the NYC to repaint, and trade out the trucks- I need some 4 wheel trucks for other projects. That will hold me over until undecs become available and/or they bring some out in Erie paint/lettering.
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A Pullman green painted unlettered four-wheel truck version also was on display, so that may be part of the February release as well.
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Is the under frame the same between the 4 wheel and 6 wheel truck versions?
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Pics or it didn't happen :lol:
Edit: seen it on FB. Good things!
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Who makes the decisions on what road names are to be issued in each run, and what are the influences that determine the choices? Is it strictly an internal company process?
With KATO it's pretty much a famous western RR bias, well-known. Maybe Atlas can fill us in about theirs.
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Who makes the decisions on what road names are to be issued in each run, and what are the influences that determine the choices? Is it strictly an internal company process?
With KATO it's pretty much a famous western RR bias, well-known. Maybe Atlas can fill us in about theirs.
Bribes. Send them to @Shipsure .
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@Puddington is looking down with a smile... 'it's about time.....'
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Who makes the decisions on what road names are to be issued in each run,....
I do. I buy undecs and paint and decal them into whatever I want. Of course, they occasionally make something I want "off the shelf"- which is fine by me.
Of course, the occasional polite letter or positive comment may also help you get what you want.
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Pics or it didn't happen :lol:
(https://i.imgur.com/qvbruis.jpg)
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@Puddington is looking down with a smile... 'it's about time.....'
This. I only wish ol' Pud was here to see them in person.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qvbruis.jpg)
Remind me to send MT a re-railer for their next anniversary.
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This. I only wish ol' Pud was here to see them in person.
My thoughts, exactly. Now if only the Leafs could win the cup, that smile would get even bigger!
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I think this single window is a deep fake imposed over a paired window. :trollface:
Can't believe I really get to buy them...
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I might have to get a few of these, they look much closer to the Preamble cars and the trailing 4 cars of the American Freedom Train than anything else that is currently out there.
Will take some work to make a combine and the observation
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Is that a non-AC roof? No big bulges?
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Had the opportunity to see samples of the Micro-Trains single window coach last night, as did @peteski. Looks very very good. The February releases on the model will be NYC (four-wheel truck) and 1960s PRR (six-wheel truck), both of which will be on display today. Four-side tooling on the roof. New Haven McGinnis within the next couple of months.
They are doin 1960’s PRR P70? Scotch lite keystones, right?
Interesting. I’m trying to figure out how to use this or mod it.
My biggest struggles are that many later P70 variants only had one vestibule.
I don’t know about 6 wheeled trucks in the 60’s but you could swap the trucks and plug some windows for a fbR.
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I'm guessing both the NYC and PRR cars made it to PC in some manner of commuter service? My PC modeling is limited to '75 and '76 in Ohio along the Panhandle.. These are tempting. I'll do a little research on the subject to find out over the morning's trucker's blend I just brewed up.
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Yes, Scotchlite red-keystone scheme. Same scheme they’ve been releasing recently on the other bodystyles.
One bolster and underframe for both truck styles. The existing six-wheel truck with the offset bolster hole is being utilized. And the “airspace” above the truck between the end of the centersill and the back of the coupler has been eliminated. Standard 1015 coupler with push-pin mount.
[attachimg=1]
NYC
[attachimg=2]
PRR Late
[attachimg=3]
Painted/Undecorated
[attachimg=4]
Underbody w/4-wheel truck installed.
The cars are “derailed” because the table isn’t level and they were rolling off the display.
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That certainly is a handsome car, so I understand the interest. I take it that it was predominately an Eastern RR style, the West of that era dominated by Harriman designs.
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I take it that it was predominately an Eastern RR style, the West of that era dominated by Harriman designs.
Based on the roadnames that Branchline released on their HO model, some non-Eastern roads would include GN, MP, GM&O, L&N, CB&Q and SP&S.
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Is that a non-AC roof? No big bulges?
The "big bulges" were less common on coaches than sleepers. Many lines DID have vents on top of the roof on the coaches (with roofs resembling sleepers, "betterment", "balloon" and other solutions), but others opted to run the vents internally- so a road specific question. I can't cite the source off the top of my head, but recall reading that a major reason for running the vents above the roof on a sleeper was that if run internally, they would have interfered with the mechanism, and cut down on space generally, for the upper berths in the car- which is not an issue with a coach.
MT has already released "balloon" roofs for some of their cars, and this one seems like a natural for that as it would let them approximate more prototypes. And various roof styles are also available in resin and 3-D materials, along with SEAC hatches and such if those are appropriate for a given road. And we can also hope somebody does "betterment" roofs.
Did anyone who has seen the single window models note whether roofs or other parts can be interchanged with the paired window coach and/or other MT heavyweights? (which is to say, is it the same length as the other coach or one of the other cars?). Not a big deal for me, as I should be able to answer the question for myself in a few weeks.
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Yes AC can always be added, but would be hard to remove.
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The model is 78 scale feet long. I’m not certain, but I believe the paired-window model is 80 scale feet. The remaining MTL heavyweight bodystyles are either shorter or longer.
On New Haven air conditioned coaches, the ducts were inside the roof clerestory. It probably was the same for New York Central and other roads.
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That certainly is a handsome car, so I understand the interest. I take it that it was predominately an Eastern RR style, the West of that era dominated by Harriman designs.
The Harriman designs, while important, hardly dominate even the SP and UP. Very early steel construction limited to a few roads.
AT&SF, GN, MIILW, CRI&P, NP, CB&Q, MP, FRISCO, WAB, GM&O, T&P, are just a few of the roads west of the Mississippi that didn’t even favor balloon roof coaches.
Charlie Vlk
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Yes, Scotchlite red-keystone scheme. Same scheme they’ve been releasing recently on the other bodystyles.
Haha, figures. I just grabbed the paired window car for my PC commuter train. Now I realized I should've waited!
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That certainly is a handsome car, so I understand the interest. I take it that it was predominately an Eastern RR style, the West of that era dominated by Harriman designs.
Well, both MT coaches (paired window and single window) are Eastern prototypes (B&O and NYC respectively, or so I understand). And I suspect that ATSF, NP, GN, CBQ etc historians might take some exception with the idea that Harriman designs "dominated" the west. I have been a bit surprised that Wheels of Time has not produced a full length SP or UP heavyweight coach in N scale. But then, I am even more surprised that this is the first single window coach of the several heavyweight coaches produced, and that to date, no one has mass produced a Santa Fe heavyweight coach.
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The model is 78 scale feet long. I’m not certain, but I believe the paired-window model is 80 scale feet. The remaining MTL heavyweight bodystyles are either shorter or longer.
On New Haven air conditioned coaches, the ducts were inside the roof clerestory. It probably was the same for New York Central and other roads.
The paired window coach is also 78' (more or less). Of course, this is always complicated by how one measures- measuring roof length of the paired window, I get 5.8725 (78' 4") according to my inexpensive digital caliper.
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Just goes to show how little I know about passenger equipment, esp. anything pre-WW II. But the MTL car is still a looker; sadly I can't find a purpose for it on my nearly all-UP-in-1970 MRR.
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Yes, Scotchlite red-keystone scheme. Same scheme they’ve been releasing recently on the other bodystyles.
One bolster and underframe for both truck styles. The existing six-wheel truck with the offset bolster hole is being utilized. And the “airspace” above the truck between the end of the centersill and the back of the coupler has been eliminated. Standard 1015 coupler with push-pin mount.
(Attachment Link)
NYC
(Attachment Link)
PRR Late
(Attachment Link)
Painted/Undecorated
(Attachment Link)
Underbody w/4-wheel truck installed.
The cars are “derailed” because the table isn’t level and they were rolling off the display.
Thanks for posting those, @bbussey !
I think I may pick up a few of these for an fbR! I hope to see these in the earlier schemes eventually.
The stripes are tough to decal.
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This is why there has always been a single window coach hullabaloo. It is probably the single most abundant heavyweight car ever. Yet somehow is one of the last to be produced.
It would be like if N scale just now got it's first F7 :P
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Just goes to show how little I know about passenger equipment, esp. anything pre-WW II. But the MTL car is still a looker; sadly I can't find a purpose for it on my nearly all-UP-in-1970 MRR.
MoW use brah, MoW use.
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MoW use brah, MoW use.
Gotcha. Trying to visualize it in silver. However, at least a third of the windows would have to plated over. You know how that is.
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Gotcha. Trying to visualize it in silver. However, at least a third of the windows would have to plated over. You know how that is.
Now you need to buy two. One for the MoW consist, and one for the scene at the shops where the crew is welding plates over the windows.
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Haha, figures. I just grabbed the paired window car for my PC commuter train. Now I realized I should've waited!
Grab the NYC instead of the Pennsy, since it’s prototypically accurate.
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I am truely happy for those of you that are happy. :) Although the PRR had many P70 variants, I don't think that any of them looked like the MTL single window coach. All P70s were built as paired window coaches. There were a few P70 betterment cars that had single windows (both smaller windows and picture windows) but those cars were somewhat different, some with round roofs, some with one vestibule. There were so many variations that I hesitate to say never, but it is not a likely match for a PRR car. PC maybe. Also, I do not know of any PRR coaches that rode on three axle trucks. But I am happy you're happy.
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New Haven had cars in the series with both truck styles, which makes things easier from that standpoint. The trucks on the model are interchangeable, and it stands to reason that the new four-wheel truck will be available separately, so any “mis-equipped” releases can be modified easily.
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I am truely happy for those of you that are happy. :) Although the PRR had many P70 variants, I don't think that any of them looked like the MTL single window coach. All P70s were built as paired window coaches. There were a few P70 betterment cars that had single windows (both smaller windows and picture windows) but those cars were somewhat different, some with round roofs, some with one vestibule. There were so many variations that I hesitate to say never, but it is not a likely match for a PRR car. PC maybe. Also, I do not know of any PRR coaches that rode on three axle trucks. But I am happy you're happy.
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-co1300s25.jpg)
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I *think* 1300 is a former N&W car.
(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-co1300s25.jpg)
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What about 1301? :trollface:
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I *think* 1300 is a former N&W car.
Aye, that it is!
But still, MT got it right, EX-N&W or not!
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The for the info about the trucks bbussey!
Looks like a need a couple painted undecorated ones to decal up for Missouri Pacific Lines.
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Had the opportunity to see samples of the Micro-Trains single window coach last night, as did @peteski. Looks very very good. The February releases on the model will be NYC (four-wheel truck) and 1960s PRR (six-wheel truck), both of which will be on display today. Four-side tooling on the roof. New Haven McGinnis within the next couple of months.
Yes, I did get to fondle that model and (while I'm not expert on heavyweight cars, or their accuracy) it looked really good. Same quality as the other MTL heavyweight cars.
The 4-wheel trucks are also new item. Those looked a bit featureless and the surface, but that is probably prototypical, and I also didn't care for their shiny black surface. If MTL were to sandblast the mold to get a nice satin finish (or whatever needs to be done to get rid of the glossy finish), those trucks IMO would look much better. Actually that goes for all the MTL trucks which have very shiny finish. Before someone mentions it, painting the slipper plastic is not a good solution (paint will rub off rather easily). Besides, it would be good not to have to do anything to them.
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Somebody have to show me a pic of a single-window PRR P70FBR for me to believe they existed.
Not that it matters anyway --- I'm now into NH so I'll be (sigh) decaling the Pullman green undec Atlas coaches since the McGinnis scheme always seems to be the first NH paint scheme they offer in any car type.
Boy, I wish I could tell Atlas to make cars in the paint scheme I'd like first.
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So you have to paint them green and decal "NEW HAVEN" down the side? That is not much harder than decaling "ERIE" down the side. Should be about the simplest paint job ever.
Even though they did Erie baggage cars I will still be re-decaling then as well. They used a imitation gold color instead of yellow.
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Yes, I did get to fondle that model and (while I'm not expert on heavyweight cars, or their accuracy) it looked really good. Same quality as the other MTL heavyweight cars.
The 4-wheel trucks are also new item. Those looked a bit featureless and the surface, but that is probably prototypical, and I also didn't care for their shiny black surface. If MTL were to sandblast the mold to get a nice satin finish (or whatever needs to be done to get rid of the glossy finish), those trucks IMO would look much better. Actually that goes for all the MTL trucks which have very shiny finish. Before someone mentions it, painting the slipper plastic is not a good solution (paint will rub off rather easily). Besides, it would be good not to have to do anything to them.
Has anyone tried air erasing a Micro-Trains truck for a similar effect?
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Has anyone tried air erasing a Micro-Trains truck for a similar effect?
Was thinking same- if for no other reason than to have a surface for paint to adhere.
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Yes, I did get to fondle that model and (while I'm not expert on heavyweight cars, or their accuracy) it looked really good. Same quality as the other MTL heavyweight cars.
The 4-wheel trucks are also new item. Those looked a bit featureless and the surface, but that is probably prototypical, and I also didn't care for their shiny black surface. If MTL were to sandblast the mold to get a nice satin finish (or whatever needs to be done to get rid of the glossy finish), those trucks IMO would look much better. Actually that goes for all the MTL trucks which have very shiny finish. Before someone mentions it, painting the slipper plastic is not a good solution (paint will rub off rather easily). Besides, it would be good not to have to do anything to them.
one of the first things I looked at was roughing up the surface of the trucks. I even tried to produce them in styrene or ABS, but because of the detail and having pebbled or matte surfaces makes ejecting them impossible. You can have a flat surface as long as it is at or near the horizontal plan of the shot...on the sides it causes it to stick. Bead blasting afterwards is not economically feasible.
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Woo hoo... SP&S #270 - #276, built in 1915, and survived into the early 1950s ! (actually went later than that, but some were modified, or turned into X-xxx cars.) I could put 6-wheel trucks on the undec and reletter. Or.. here's to hoping that Lowell Smith takes the ball and runs with these to make SP&S versions.
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one of the first things I looked at was roughing up the surface of the trucks. I even tried to produce them in styrene or ABS, but because of the detail and having pebbled or matte surfaces makes ejecting them impossible. You can have a flat surface as long as it is at or near the horizontal plan of the shot...on the sides it causes it to stick. Bead blasting afterwards is not economically feasible.
@Shipsure , did you end up tooling two holes in each end for the 2 vs. 3 axle trucks?
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The 4-wheel trucks are also new item. Those looked a bit featureless and the surface, but that is probably prototypical, and I also didn't care for their shiny black surface. If MTL were to sandblast the mold to get a nice satin finish (or whatever needs to be done to get rid of the glossy finish), those trucks IMO would look much better. Actually that goes for all the MTL trucks which have very shiny finish. Before someone mentions it, painting the slipper plastic is not a good solution (paint will rub off rather easily). Besides, it would be good not to have to do anything to them.
This outfit sells a fountain pen in matte black Delrin: http://karaskustoms.com/signature-pens/decograph-delrin-black-std.html (http://karaskustoms.com/signature-pens/decograph-delrin-black-std.html)
Wonder if the plastic material is matte black or if the finish is the result of some operation after molding?
(http://karaskustoms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/740x556/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/b/bb_deco_8.jpeg)
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(http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-co1300s25.jpg)
That's why never say never, however for it to be correct you will need to model PRR Lines West between early 1960s and 1968, give or take until PC repainted the car.
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That's why never say never, however for it to be correct you will need to model PRR Lines West between early 1960s and 1968, give or take until PC repainted the car.
Yes, but then, the time frame was determined by the lettering scheme. It is to MT credit that they found a similar prototype for the car (or I assume 2 or more similar prototypes, as theirs is numbered 1301 and the photo is 1300).
And I personally want to thank @Missaberoad for posting that photo before I put my foot in my mouth with an "authoritative" statement that PRR never owned such a thing. And I am hoping I never said there was no such thing as a PAIRED window NYC coach- because there were, actually, quite a few (even without counting converted parlor cars).
Does anyone know the history of these cars and how they came to be in PRR paint?
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Yes, I did get to fondle that model and (while I'm not expert on heavyweight cars, or their accuracy) it looked really good. Same quality as the other MTL heavyweight cars.
The 4-wheel trucks are also new item. Those looked a bit featureless and the surface, but that is probably prototypical, and I also didn't care for their shiny black surface. If MTL were to sandblast the mold to get a nice satin finish (or whatever needs to be done to get rid of the glossy finish), those trucks IMO would look much better. Actually that goes for all the MTL trucks which have very shiny finish. Before someone mentions it, painting the slipper plastic is not a good solution (paint will rub off rather easily). Besides, it would be good not to have to do anything to them.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007UAXJQ
Dupli-Color Adhesion Promoter
Clears to a dull flat surface in most conditions. Won't crack or rub off easily. Use it by itself, or as a base coat for further weathering.
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I *think* 1300 is a former N&W car.
N&W PG Class, probably N&W #1650, which was sold to PRR January 28, 1964.
Need MTL to release the N&W PG schemes on this car (they have the info). 8)
Mark
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Yes, credit to MTL for finding a prototype photo on which to base their car. In no way am I criticizing MTL regarding this car. Only providing information so people can be informed. Although this is not a foob, I completely support Thomas Kincade, Halloween, dead presidents, and other assorted foob cars as they support the company and allows them to provide the prototypically correct stuff we crave.
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This outfit sells a fountain pen in matte black Delrin: http://karaskustoms.com/signature-pens/decograph-delrin-black-std.html (http://karaskustoms.com/signature-pens/decograph-delrin-black-std.html)
Wonder if the plastic material is matte black or if the finish is the result of some operation after molding?
(http://karaskustoms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/740x556/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/b/bb_deco_8.jpeg)
Pretty sure that’s machined from rod, rather than molded.
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Yes, credit to MTL for finding a prototype photo on which to base their car. In no way am I criticizing MTL regarding this car. Only providing information so people can be informed. Although this is not a foob, I completely support Thomas Kincade, Halloween, dead presidents, and other assorted foob cars as they support the company and allows them to provide the prototypically correct stuff we crave.
Doug, I did not mean my previous comment to be critical of what you said, just wanted to point out that, given the late PRR paint scheme that MT has been using on several offerings recently. I should have worded my comment better.
I've started using the term "representation" for situations like this PRR car where a manufacturer markets a car that is "close"- that is, the product is not an accurate model of the N&W/PRR prototype, but one where the manufacturer has used an accurate paint scheme on the closest available model in their product line. As is the case of many of the MT cars, while not 100% accurate, it is likely only noticeable to a few people with relatively high degree of expertise on the cars of a particular railroad. Anyway, most of the MT choices are a big step up from "foobies"- even when not 100% accurate.
For myself, I will use the car for Erie and L&N consists, and may even do one for Grand Trunk Western (in the early 50s, GTW bought several single window coaches from C&O)- which reminds me I need to search through my collection of Semaphores (the magazine) to find the article on those cars.
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one of the first things I looked at was roughing up the surface of the trucks. I even tried to produce them in styrene or ABS, but because of the detail and having pebbled or matte surfaces makes ejecting them impossible. You can have a flat surface as long as it is at or near the horizontal plan of the shot...on the sides it causes it to stick. Bead blasting afterwards is not economically feasible.
Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. However I have observed many examples of N scale trucks (likely in multiple types of plastic) which have much duller looking surfaces than what MTL tricks look like. Obviously I don't know how they accomplish that, but is seems to be quite possible. They are not totally satin finish, but also not mirror-smooth like MTL trucks. They are sort of in-between. Anybody who owns models from several manufacturers can easily observe the difference in the glossiness.
Daniel, the adhesion promoter coating might help on POM plastic (Delrin, Celcon, etc.) a bit, but I really don't see it being anywhere as good as sandblasting the surface before painting. POM is very, very slick.
As I understand, adhesion promoter is mainly used in the automotive industry for painting urethane body parts (bumpers and such). In that application it really makes a difference.
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Grab the NYC instead of the Pennsy, since it’s prototypically accurate.
NEVER! lol This is a Pennsy household.
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NEVER! lol This is a Pennsy household.
(https://pics.astrologymemes.com/youre-goddamn-right-14369672.png)
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Finally, I can model this in N scale. Time for a window patch and a run on the back end of a mail train.
(http://cgwrr.com/MKSModels/NYC2726_1.jpg)
(http://cgwrr.com/MKSModels/NYC2726_2.jpg)
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I might have to get a few of these, they look much closer to the Preamble cars and the trailing 4 cars of the American Freedom Train than anything else that is currently out there.
Will take some work to make a combine and the observation
I was thinking the exact same thing. After the AFT some of those exReading cars (4?) went to the British Columbia Railway. One of them was a combine and another was the observation. I recently acquired a set of four Wheels of Time coaches with the intent to re-window them but I’d like to see these.
Craig
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These are in stock at MBK. Just ordered 5 NYC cars. I need Commonwealth trucks for Erie so I just went with the lower priced NYC over the PRR car. First model train purchase in a looooong time.
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These are in stock at MBK. Just ordered 5 NYC cars. I need Commonwealth trucks for Erie so I just went with the lower priced NYC over the PRR car. First model train purchase in a looooong time.
You could have just asked Joe to sell you some trucks! :P
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Oh I didn't order trucks yet. I need the 6 wheel trucks like they used on the baggage car.
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Oh I didn't order trucks yet. I need the 6 wheel trucks like they used on the baggage car.
The NYC coaches come with 4 wheel trucks
What do the trucks you are looking for look like?
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These are the trucks I need:
https://www.micro-trains.com/index.php?_route_=erie-rr-baggage-car-rd-580-rel-04-15-14700140
I'll order them direct from MTL. :)
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You could have just asked Joe to sell you some trucks! :P
I think what he means Bryan is that he is going to swap out the 4 wheel trucks supplied on the NYC for MT 6 wheel commonwealth top equalized trucks (otherwise known as the "Erie baggage car truck") already provided by Joe or the other exceptional customer service folks at Micro-trains. Which makes the NYC coach a very, very close stand in for an Erie coach. That is what I am going to be doing, at any rate, when my NYC cars get here on Monday or Tuesday.
http://www.spookshow.net/trucks/compass.html
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/erie2280.jpg)
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Yep. Also since you posted that photo. It shows how Erie converted them to air conditioning. They plugged up the roof vents and added the one vent at the end. Also the "thingie" hatch on the roof.
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Yep. Also since you posted that photo. It shows how Erie converted them to air conditioning. They plugged up the roof vents and added the one vent at the end. Also the "thingie" hatch on the roof.
Not sure if the shell is the same, but I have snap in roofs very close to that!
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Not sure if the shell is the same, but I have snap in roofs very close to that!
I thought you were working on that roof hatch, but didn't know you made a whole roof.
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It would't take much to modify my PRR clerestory version in to that and include a hatch.
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007UAXJQ
Dupli-Color Adhesion Promoter
Clears to a dull flat surface in most conditions. Won't crack or rub off easily. Use it by itself, or as a base coat for further weathering.
Every time this used to come up I would try to tell folks that using adhesion promoter is the solution. Despite having used it successfully for about a decade now, and even starting a thread about it, it seems like folks like to ignore the info and continue to gripe about how they cannot get paint to stick to "slippery plastics". I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
Adhesion promoter is magical stuff, and if you've never tried it, you should.
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I think what he means Bryan is that he is going to swap out the 4 wheel trucks supplied on the NYC for MT 6 wheel commonwealth top equalized trucks (otherwise known as the "Erie baggage car truck") already provided by Joe or the other exceptional customer service folks at Micro-trains. Which makes the NYC coach a very, very close stand in for an Erie coach. That is what I am going to be doing, at any rate, when my NYC cars get here on Monday or Tuesday.
http://www.spookshow.net/trucks/compass.html
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/erie2280.jpg)
So when is MTL going to take their green SWC, put their "Erie baggage car truck" on it, use an "Erie" print pad, and make what I want in one piece?
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So when is MTL going to take their green SWC, put their "Erie baggage car truck" on it, use an "Erie" print pad, and make what I want in one piece?
Pretty soon, I hope, but maybe put in a request with @Shipsure.
For me personally, I will end up stripping the NYC lettering, blanking a few windows to make an approximation of an 1100 series rebuilds (will end up with 2 extra windows on each side- 19 instead of 17, but you do what you can), swapping in Erie trucks, and painting in 2 tone green. I need the 4 wheel trucks for other projects, so these are perfect for me.
Erie also had one diner-parlor that was rebuilt from these coaches with some windows modified, but without the streamline appearance of most of their rebuilds. 2996
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/erie2996.jpg)
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And diner lounge 2999
(http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~tubbs/history/ErieLackawanna/Passenger62.jpg)
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Just parking info here about the Erie AC:
The year 1934 brought cars 2250-2256 into the modern era with the installation of steam-jet air conditioning. Unlike most Pullman-built cars, this air conditioning addition did not add large ducts on the sides of the clerestory roofs. Minimal changes to the roof included a large access hatch at one end of the top of the roof and the closing of air vents at the sides of the clerestory roof. Air conditioning units were added to the underbody of the cars. By 1937 steam-jet air conditioning had been added to most of the remaining cars.
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Thanks for the AC info, Chris. From the roof hatch, I figured it was something like that (I am not sure if there is a difference between "steam-jet" and "steam-ejector" AC, but both needed a big hole in the roof).
The clerestory on the single window model is very smooth now that I see it on screen, well, it is smoother than it looks- to my eye very much like the patching of clerestory windows on the roof of Erie 2996 pictured a few entries above- appears that the AC vents shown in the various photos would need to be added, but only a couple of small vents need to be shaved. And, in an attempt to be first (shown with a UP painted paired window for comparison)....
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/2972-100220155008.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14908)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/2972-100220155136.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14909)
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2 different bolster centers with the 4 wheel vs 6 wheel?... how are they doing the 6 wheel truck? Different underframe mold insert?
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2 different bolster centers with the 4 wheel vs 6 wheel?... how are they doing the 6 wheel truck? Different underframe mold insert?
Same bolster hole. The six-wheel truck is the standard MTL heavyweight truck.
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@thomasjmdavis , if these are your models, can you pull the trucks off and share another pic?
@learmoia , I had suggested to MT some time ago that if they added a second hole to the underframe, that they could in fact use common tools. I am very curious to see what they ended up doing.
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The truck centers of the single window coach measure 4.05" (per my trusty cheap caliper) which equals 54 scale feet, which is what is shown for the cars in drawings on the Canada Southern site-
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/g-27.jpg
While I can't say for sure, not having the PRR car as an example, I will take Bryan's word for it that same bolster is used for both 4 and 6 wheel trucks. The pics of the PRR on the MTL site make it look (to me) like the 6 wheel truck (with offset bolster pin) is mounted with the bolster pin towards the end of the car, while on the paired window coach, the bolsters are more inboard, and the bolster pin is located towards the center of the car. This assumes they did not provide a second (centered) bolster pin hole in the 6 wheel truck (?). Note that in previous production, the baggage car also mounts its trucks with the bolster pin toward the end (and I think the RPO, but would have to pull it out of storage). On the sleepers and paired window, the bolster pin is offset toward the center.
If I mount a 6 wheel truck on the single window, I get this.... Single window is car with dark underframe. Paired window light gray.
Note from Tom D- I removed the photo that used to be here because it is not accurate in showing how 6 wheel truck is mounted on single window car- see conversation below and notes from Shipsure- the 6 wheel truck has been modified so there is no offset of the bolster pin.
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FWIW.
In my capacity as Director of Modeling Services for the NKPHTS, I contacted MT about a special run of the single-windows coaches for the NKPHTS to sell with custom decals. It turns out that these are reasonably close to both the NKP 90-series and 60-series heavyweight coaches, which lasted in service until 1960. But the 60-series had 6-wheel trucks, while the 90-series had 4-wheel trucks. We wanted the 4-wheel version (there were more 90-series cars than 60-series, and they were built later), but I asked whether someone could buy the six-wheel trucks separately if they wanted to do a 60-series model. I was told that the trucks would be available for sale separately "next month" (e.g., March).
This indicated to me that the six-wheel trucks would be of a different design than what is currently in the MT catalog. Otherwise, they would have just told me "Yes, tell them to buy [PART NUMBER]."
John C.
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@thomasjmdavis ,
Can you remove the truck on both cars and take another picture without the trucks in place? I wish to see the design of the shell and underframe. Thanks in advance.
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John C.- it would make sense to me if MT were to produce a version of the 6 wheel truck with a centered bolster pin- not saying that they are- as this would make it easier to use as a replacement for older trucks on Rivarossi and Lima cars. It would also make sense on the single window coach, since the NYC cars with 6 wheel trucks have the same truck centers as the cars with 4 wheel trucks.
Anyone take a photo of the underside of the PRR version at a show prior to release or get one in the mail last few days? Or @Shipsure care to comment? It is a product that has been released, seems silly to be speculating when the real thing is available as an example.
OK @Lemosteam - it appears to me to be built the same way as previous MT offerings, but I hope this answers whatever question you have....
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/2972-110220115147.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14924)
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I does, I think that it will be more clear when I can compare a six and 4 axle single window floors.
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we made an insert in the 6 wheeled truck (second option) that moved the center of the bolster span so it would work. No changes to the underframe.
Joe
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The clerestory on the single window model is very smooth now that I see it on screen, well, it is smoother than it looks- to my eye very much like the patching of clerestory windows on the roof of Erie 2996 pictured a few entries above- appears that the AC vents shown in the various photos would need to be added, but only a couple of small vents need to be shaved. And, in an attempt to be first (shown with a UP painted paired window for comparison)....
I'm confused --- are both the NYC and UP SWCs shown in the photos made by MTL? Their roofs and underbodies are quite different.
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Yes, both models pictured are from MTL, but the yellow one is not SWC - it is the older, paired-window coach - that is clearly visible.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/medium_2972-100220155008.jpeg)
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I'm confused --- are both the NYC and UP SWCs shown in the photos made by MTL? Their roofs and underbodies are quite different.
In my own defense, the caption to the photo reads "...(shown with a UP painted paired window for comparison)...."
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we made an insert in the 6 wheeled truck (second option) that moved the center of the bolster span so it would work. No changes to the underframe.
Joe
Hindsight 20/20 why did you start with the whole offset bolster to begin with... Why not just keep everything centered from the get go?
~Ian
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Hindsight 20/20 why did you start with the whole offset bolster to begin with... Why not just keep everything centered from the get go?
~Ian
Was it something about not having to remove the center wheelset to install/remove the kingpin? Or was it so the kingpin did not rub against the center axle?
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Hindsight 20/20 why did you start with the whole offset bolster to begin with... Why not just keep everything centered from the get go?
~Ian
In order to allow the cars to track on 9¾" radius without sacrificing the adjacent stirrups and ladders.
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In order to allow the cars to track on 9¾" radius without sacrificing the adjacent stirrups and ladders.
:facepalm:
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Hindsight 20/20 why did you start with the whole offset bolster to begin with... Why not just keep everything centered from the get go?
~Ian
It is very common. I have some Pecos River ATSF chair cars, from 15 or 20 years before MT RPO was released, that have offset bolsters- even though the PRB sleepers have centered bolsters. And there are the Atlas 60' cars of a couple years ago, which also have offset bolster pins on the 6 wheel trucks.
In addition to the various reasons already suggested, my observation, for what it's worth, is that by offsetting one way on shorter cars and the other way on longer cars, the short and long cars operate better together AND also seem to operate better with other manufacturers cars that have truck mounted couplers, but YMMV.
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Unless the cars are running on 9¾" radius curves and tighter, it isn't noticeable. I don't mind it, as I'd rather have the stirrup detail.
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I have hammer, will travel. :lol:
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Cause' LOL
Hindsight 20/20 why did you start with the whole offset bolster to begin with... Why not just keep everything centered from the get go?
~Ian
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The bathroom glass is frosted. Nicely done.
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I was too impatient to wait for a N&W release, so I picked up one of the Pennsy coaches, thinking I would remove the PRR lettering, paint the ends black, and decal it for N&W (ShellScale). It would represent faded paint (PRR red has more brown than N&W red).
I removed the lettering using MTL Joe's "trick" (camp fuel and Q-tips) and it was more work than I thought it would be, and still a few "artifacts" of the PRR lettering.
Nice cars, and I look forward to an N&W release. 8)
Mark
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"Camp fuel" meaning ...? My (many tried) methods of trying to remove MTL printing results is that the paint comes off long before the lettering shows any effect.
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Camp fuel lighting fluid. You should be able to find the thread by searching on camp fuel.
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Here's the link to Shipsure's original post (see reply #27):
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29743.msg321853#msg321853
What he said was:
For "fresh" cars you can remove the pad printing using Coleman Camp fuel and a Qtip. We use it here when we need to correct something and it doesn't effect the paint under. I've done it on my own cars that were printed a month or so earler and it took a bit of work, but the lettering did come off clean.
Helpful Hint #1
Cheers
Joe
But, at this point, I have severl MTL cars that are well past "fresh". So, hearing about successes in removing MTL printing would be welcome.
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we also offer undecorated and unpainted cars as well. I think we have undecorated painted in PRR red in stock and the pullman green. I don't know if we've put up the 160's yet but they will happen eventually.
Joe
Here's the link to Shipsure's original post (see reply #27):
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29743.msg321853#msg321853
What he said was:
But, at this point, I have severl MTL cars that are well past "fresh". So, hearing about successes in removing MTL printing would be welcome.
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My (many tried) methods of trying to remove MTL printing results is that the paint comes off long before the lettering shows any effect.
I have to point out that the PRR coach is not painted - the body is molded in that color. I have not tried it on a painted car as yet.
Mark
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we also offer undecorated and unpainted cars as well. I think we have undecorated painted in PRR red in stock and the pullman green. I don't know if we've put up the 160's yet but they will happen eventually.
Joe
On the 160 undec.....now I need to play the guessing game on when or if the car will appear in factory applied Erie two-tone green in my lifetime. Would be just my luck to get the last yellow stripe applied and have a 6 piece set appear with baggage, mail-baggage, 2 single window coaches, diner (ok, no Erie diner is really close, maybe 949 prior to the rebuild program- for my purposes, consider it optional), and Pullman 10-1-2 "Lake Worth" (IIRC). I am sure that MT would sell at least 5 sets, maybe as many as a dozen.
The undec diner might be one of those things you need to call or email customer service for. The website only has listings for a 10-1-2 and a Mail-baggage as of 2-17-20 at 1 PM EST. But my own past experience is that customer service can often find things that are not listed- I've had good luck with things like this in the past.
Now, back to work on taxes, so I can get my refund and buy more trains.
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I have to point out that the PRR coach is not painted - the body is molded in that color. I have not tried it on a painted car as yet.
Mark
Are you sure Mark? MTL always molds their cars in a color that is very close to the paint color for that run. The paint they use is also very thin. If they used unpainted plastic, that would be the first I have witnessed that on their cars.
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I have an undec diner that is definitely unpainted, but all the other undecorated cars I have were indeed painted green.
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I have an undec diner that is definitely unpainted, but all the other undecorated cars I have were indeed painted green.
That doesn't surprise me. But Mark had a car decorated for PRR.
Here is my experience (I still have many examples in my stash):
Back when Kadee/MT sold dimensional data only cars, those were painted and Tampo printed.
Unassembled car kits were sold unpainted, in assorted colors (depending on which run they were taken from).
Undecorated freight cars are also unpainted, and also sold in assorted colors.
My experience is with freight cars only - I have never bought any undecorated passenger cars.
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Certainly all the MT cars I have that are lettered have paint on them.... Beyond that, I take the 5th, as I would not want to incriminate myself by admitting to stripping paint off a PRR car in order to use it in a kitbash of a Wabash mail-baggage.
In the early days of MT passenger cars, I bought several undec RPOs that I think were unpainted.
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Anybody know if that two-axle truck is based on a Pullman-Standard prototype? Or is it something else?
Thanks,
-Mark
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Anybody know if that two-axle truck is based on a Pullman-Standard prototype? Or is it something else?
Thanks,
-Mark
My first inclination is to say that it is a Commonwealth (I note on your website that you aren't very happy with the use of that manufacturer name as an identifier)- or at least all the major casting are. If the number on the NYC coach is indicative of which specific car series was modeled, the cars of that series were made by ACF. But just about every car maker in the US built coaches on the same basic plan for NYC. And Commonwealth (which merged into GSC in 1929 or thereabouts) made truck castings - or entire trucks- for just about every carmaker, Pullman included. But, that said, I am trying to look it up.....
I don't think it can be a "Pullman-Standard" (although it could be "Pullman")- as the merger between Pullman and Standard Car Co. only came in 1929, and the new name was not adopted until 1934 (IIRC). In any case, the trucks on NYC coaches made by Pullman, Pressed Steel, Standard Steel Car Co, ACF all look very similar, if not identical- with variations more influenced by the date of the car than the specific manufacturer.
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Thanks, Thomas.
-Mark
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Are you sure Mark? MTL always molds their cars in a color that is very close to the paint color for that run. The paint they use is also very thin. If they used unpainted plastic, that would be the first I have witnessed that on their cars.
I have three undecorated PRR MTL Heavyweight cars - two sleepers and an observation. As marked on the label, they are all "painted and unlettered". The cars are molded in a red tone, but they are definitely PAINTED. I have not seen the new PRR coach, but I seriously doubt that they have changed their approach and produced these cars unpainted and lettered. Unpainted plastic, however well matched, usually look like unpainted plastic.
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I stand corrected. I was more focused on removing the lettering - so I went back and took a closer look. Yup, you can see the paint vs non-paint on the end casting here (d'oh!) :D
Make's Joe's tip more impressive!
Mark
[attachimg=1]
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Yes, the quality of MTL decoration (thinness of the paint, and top notch lettering), are the reason they are IMO one of the top quality manufacturers.
Their early attempts at ink-jet decoration were not up to their standards, but since then they have upgraded their equipment and the results are quite impressive. Still, I wish they would not use ink-jet to print the entire yellow side of their billboard reefers (but I'm probably the only modeler in the world who notices that).