On the other hand... $50 for a DPM built up?

[wm3798]

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/785-4921

The kit sells for what, $8 or $9?  Who's putting these things together? 

Give me a couple of free evenings with my junk box, and I can do at least as good a job, and mine won't look like everyone else's.

Lee

[Mark5]

disgusting.

[Sokramiketes]

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/785-4921

The kit sells for what, $8 or $9?  Who's putting these things together? 

Give me a couple of free evenings with my junk box, and I can do at least as good a job, and mine won't look like everyone else's.

Lee

Their brick painting skills and venatian blind printing skills are better than anything you'd be able to do by hand.  Does that justify the price?  Maybe not... but add in all the little details and it's easily a $50 value. 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

***** man, each one takes about an hour's worth of sanding to get the pieces all squared up... Add in the parts, and it's not so outrageous.

Sure, yours may be more unique, but I can understand where the pricing is coming from, and where the market is for them.

[Mark5]

tasters choice,

I like the kits.

[wm3798]

My skills aren't the question.  I'm perfectly capable of producing something at least as nice as the example they show.  The question is the value.  I could say the same think about the work you do customizing passenger cars...  You do a great job, but would you be willing to shell out a ton of money to buy something off the rack, just because you can?  I take a lot of pride in the models I build, and I can tell you do, too, Mike.

I suppose this is just another example of the lowering of expectations of us model builders while those who choose not to develop their skills raise the expectations on the manufacturers, and likewise the price of things in general.  You and Ed are among the youngest guys on these pages, and you're both very talented modelers.  Take the $50 bucks and buy decoders or something else that you genuinely can't do economically yourself.  Have fun, build a model, screw up some windows with glue, paint your thumb, drop an X-acto in your lap... 

Unfortunately the trend in our hobby is no longer what you learn, its about what you can spend.
Lee

 

[Mark5]

them damn young whipper snappers!

[tom mann]

Hold on Lee, you're thinking of this the wrong way:

So, a DPM kit is 4 walls ready to go (after sanding), right?  Why isn't it some molds and resin?  Because DPM does a few things for you and charges you for it, so you don't have to start from scratch.  Walther's does a few more things (assembly, painting), and charges you even more.  But...why do you assume the Walther's offering is finished?  I could spend hours on the Walther's "kit" making cool signs, weathering, adding/subtracting detail. 

I don't view it as assembled...I view it as "further along".

[3rdrail]

Unfortunately the trend in our hobby is no longer what you learn, its about what you can spend.

Unfortunately, I think Lee hit all too close to the truth here... S'pose that's just us old farts' way of thinking, though.

[TrainCat2]

OK, you just depressed the S**T out of me Lee. I'm feeling old now and I'm going home (with my etched marbles too!).

[Chris333]

I would pay for the gas station ($40) the photos posted on Atlas look good. I'd have to see this other building in person..   But a gas station is sort of a stand alone model that would tend to be a center piece. A regular city building that would be placed in with a bunch of other might not be worth $50, a whole block could be $500 easy, yikes!

[nscalesteve]

drop an X-acto in your lap...

...I will never understand why those stupid things have a round handle !   

[Catt]

Can you say "Woodland Scenics"?By the way Lee,just where are you finding these kits for $8. or $9.  ???

[wm3798]

That's the price tag on the packages that are in my "To Do" pile... and have been there for several years... ;D

The DPM kits, before Woodland Scenics rooned them, were priced very modestly.  The storefronts went for around 6.95, the bigger downtown buildings were 9.95, and the industrial buildings were in the 11-14.99 range.  The Woods Furniture set was always more expensive, but it had a lot more stuff in it.

Lee

[Sokramiketes]

My skills aren't the question.  I'm perfectly capable of producing something at least as nice as the example they show.  The question is the value.  I could say the same think about the work you do customizing passenger cars...  You do a great job, but would you be willing to shell out a ton of money to buy something off the rack, just because you can?  I take a lot of pride in the models I build, and I can tell you do, too, Mike.

I suppose this is just another example of the lowering of expectations of us model builders while those who choose not to develop their skills raise the expectations on the manufacturers, and likewise the price of things in general.  You and Ed are among the youngest guys on these pages, and you're both very talented modelers.  Take the $50 bucks and buy decoders or something else that you genuinely can't do economically yourself.  Have fun, build a model, screw up some windows with glue, paint your thumb, drop an X-acto in your lap... 

Unfortunately the trend in our hobby is no longer what you learn, its about what you can spend.
Lee

 

Ok, I can discuss skill versus desire versus spending money based on passenger cars too.

I have the skill to build passenger cars.  Kato can still do better than I can... I was working on a Super Chief before Kato released theirs.  I had a couple cars completed; photo etched sides on core-kits, full roof and under body details, separate grab irons, Alclad paint... the works.  I was probably spending 10 hours per car.  They looked pretty nice.  I set them all aside and bought the Kato set.  Out of the box they are better than mine, because they can render the perfect P-S fluting, whereas the etched sides were binary with just two levels of detail.  I had to carve panel lines in the plain roofs of the cars I built.  They look like a kindergardener with a crayon compared to the precision of the Kato millled/EDM'd molds.  Do even ask about my nightmare forming and cutting the dome section of the Pleasure Dome.

So, now I've got the Kato set.  I waste maybe 2 hours on a car carving off grab irons and replacing them with wire.  I spent more time on the dome to replace the interior, and to do the lighted Turquoise medallion.  If I was still working on my kit built cars, I would have said "enough is enough" a long time ago on the dome car, and never would have bothered with the medallion.  Just like Tom said above... these assembled models are farther along.  So, I have the energy available to take them even farther.

I've been doing a lot of HO Walthers passenger equipment lately.  They're more money, but the best part about them is the little package of grab irons.  They leave them off the sides of the cars, but leave drill marks in the shell.  All I have to do is drill the holes and glue in the pre-bent wire grabs.  

I really dislike bending grabs, and replacing them on plastic models.  If the option is available to either have them factory installed or have them included with the car, then I will gladly spend the extra money so that I can save myself time from something I flat out do not enjoy.

I'm sure there are people that feel the same way about DPM structures.  Maybe they don't like having to file the corners of the walls to get the pieces to fit.  Maybe they don't enjoy having to paint each window frame by hand.  Maybe they just like building train models and don't want to spend any more time than necessary on structures.  There are lots of other reasons besides skill level that people buy these things.  Heck, that gas station is pretty cool.  Bryan over on the A board did a little cleanup on it, and it looks even better.  Could I build a kit, sure.  Do I want to?  Not really.  

If you want to do an experiment, I'll send you a DPM kit and have you assemble it.  Track the time it takes you to build it.  Then track all the $3-$5 packages of detail parts you purchase to use as clutter.  Then track the time you spend painting all those little pieces of clutter.  Oh, and the sheet of decals you need for signs.  

We have two each of the WS built-ups at the shop.  I took a closer look at them last night... they really are neat structures.  The painting and mortar work on the hardware store is exquisite for the volume of structures they're probably releasing.  The corners of the structure are all tight and virtually seamless.  (In fact, this is an all new structure right?  Because some construction is different from the DPM style kits...)  The clutter is painted with the same quality as their figure sets.  I didn't like the decal film on the vertical lettering on the side of the building, but that should be fixable as well.  Again, it's further along that a kit, and would save me time and energy.

After you have $25 and 10 hours of your time into the building, we can talk about perceived value again.