Author Topic: Old Flux - does it go bad?  (Read 608 times)

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nickelplate759

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Old Flux - does it go bad?
« on: October 09, 2026, 07:05:58 PM »
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As I'm starting to make progress on my layout, I'm digging out things I haven't used in years.
This photo shows the current state of my rosin flux - the tub on the left is REALLY old (Radio Shack!), the one on the right is newer (just checked - 2017!)



What are those long thing crystalline things in there?  If they are indeed crystals, crystals of what?
And is the flux still usable?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2026, 07:22:48 PM by nickelplate759 »
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Chris333

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2026, 07:20:56 PM »
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Hit it with a flame and I bet it will look like a brand new puddle.

Dave V

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2026, 09:06:16 PM »
+1
The older it gets, the harder it is to spread on a bagel.

MK

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2026, 10:47:08 PM »
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I have flux that is over 30 years old and it still works just fine though mine doesn't have those crystalline things.  But then again mine isn't stored for years untouched.

BTW, mine is from Radio Shack too but before everyone went with plastic containers.

nickelplate759

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2026, 11:21:43 PM »
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Well, I tried it on some track feeders, seems to work OK.
My soldering skills haven't aged as well as the flux, alas.  Gotta practice.
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

peteski

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2026, 01:24:20 AM »
+1
I also never seen those crystal formations.  Even the past looks sickly. I would ditch those!

For trackwork I would go with @robert3985 Superior liquid flux.  It really, really works well (I apply it with a largest size Micro-Brush). A little goes a long way. It is not expensive and worthy investment.  BTW, I still prefer the standard Radio Shack rosin electronic past flux for super precision electronic soldering.

Also, I don't know what you use for soldering iron, but remember to keep the iron's tip very clean and shiny coated with wet solder.  Moist sponge is your best friend.  I see some people building super nice layouts using 30 year old Radio Shack pencil iron with a burned tip for soldering.  When one is spending thousands of dollars on the layout it makes sense to buy a decent quality iron. Not saying it is you, but I see that all often.
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robert3985

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2026, 02:30:40 AM »
+2
I also never seen those crystal formations.  Even the past looks sickly. I would ditch those!

For trackwork I would go with @robert3985 Superior liquid flux.  It really, really works well (I apply it with a largest size Micro-Brush). A little goes a long way. It is not expensive and worthy investment.  BTW, I still prefer the standard Radio Shack rosin electronic past flux for super precision electronic soldering.

Also, I don't know what you use for soldering iron, but remember to keep the iron's tip very clean and shiny coated with wet solder.  Moist sponge is your best friend.  I see some people building super nice layouts using 30 year old Radio Shack pencil iron with a burned tip for soldering.  When one is spending thousands of dollars on the layout it makes sense to buy a decent quality iron. Not saying it is you, but I see that all often.

Some fluxes have a shelf life, although I have a bottle of Superior No.30 Supersafe Solder Flux that's probably 30 years old, and it still works okay on my turnouts and trackwork, along with repairing brass engines & rolling stock, and building etched brass/nickel silver kits.  When the blue fades, it's supposed to be replaced, but...like I said, it still is working excellently.  Just for information's sake, you can get Superior No. 30 Supersafe Solder Flux here: https://www.hnflux.com/ along with my favorite silver-bearing 96/4 Tin/Silver solder for turnout building, trackwork and a lot of other brass/bronze/nickel-silver/copper soldering jobs.

I used to be a big believer in the wet sponge to clean my iron tips between soldering joints, but recently I learned that using a wet sponge will fairly quickly ruin a good iron tip. Cleaning a soldering iron tip with a wet sponge ruins it quickly because the sudden temperature drop causes thermal shock, which cracks the tip's protective iron plating allowing air and aggressive materials to get to and oxidize & dissolve the underlying copper core of the tip.

A better solution is "brass wool" or a "dry brass sponge" which I have been using with my new digital Hakko FX888DX-010BY soldering station even though the included iron holder includes a wet sponge as well as a space for the included  dry brass sponge.

What happens, particularly with solders that have a high tin content such as my favorite 96/4 Tin/Silver solder, is that the iron plating on tip cracks because of the sudden temperature change when water in the wet sponge steams away, allowing air and molten tin to get into the micro cracks.  Molten tin acts as a copper solvent, so the cracks get bigger and it becomes increasingly difficult to tin the tip because it becomes porous and blackens until tinning is impossible.

Brass wool doesn't cause sudden temperature drops and easily cleans the residue from the hot tip, where it can be easily tinned again for the next joint to solder.

So far, it's working very well for me and I notice that my soldering iron tip looks virtually new since I started using it regularly about eight months ago.

Frankly, I do most of my soldering nowadays with my 250W American Beauty Resistance Soldering Station when building turnouts, laying track, repairing brass models, or creating brass/NS structures.  However, I am also replacing about a dozen old Radio Shack DPDT toggle switches for my Park City/Echo Yard that decided to not work any longer starting last year, and I use my new Hakko soldering station for wiring them.  I'll also be using it for additional under-the-layout wiring particularly for my Tortoise installs.

I'm also repairing brass locomotives and getting them to run for a few customers, which inevitable require soldering 30AWG wire to motors and wipers, as well as I'm doing some DCC sound installs also where the new soldering station is proving to indispensable for the electronics while the American Beauty Resistance Soldering Station is invaluable for repairing any broken solder joints or adding additional brass details.

On my electronics, I use rosin flux also because I like the way it stays in place.

I am seriously considering purchasing a hot air solderer like @Sumner has done for my DCC installs using SMD components for lighting effects and stay-alives.

All of my soldering equipment when added together cost less than a single brass Overland brass GTEL Turbine.  If I hadn't purchased a top-of-the-line powerful Resistance Soldering Station, the total cost for my Hakko Digital Soldering Station and my proposed hot-air soldering station would be less than a single Scale Trains Standard Turbine.

Soldering is a necessary skill to acquire along with good quality tools when a model railroader gets semi-serious about the hobby and being able to repair his/her models, install electronics & lay track becomes something he/she wants to do themselves.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Sumner

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2026, 11:41:02 AM »
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I've got a number of fluxes I've bought over the years but don't use them even if they are still good.  I want to use what works best for me and I was converted to Superior No. 30 a number of years back thanks to @robert3985.  I use it on electronics projects, building hand-laid turnouts and anything else I need to solder.  It is ...



... quick and easy to apply using a small plastic bottle with the tip smashed in so that you can apply a drop at a time.  Lots easier/quicker than using paste.  I highly recommend it.  I don't use the GC flux shown above anymore as it is sticky and hard to clean up.  The Superior cleans up easily with water and a lot of times I don't clean it up on some projects and it hasn't been a problem.

I'm a sponge and 'brass wool' combination guy myself....



Above is the latest version of the soldering station as of summer of 2026. Major change was screwing the brass wool to the wood under the water bowel. I tried the wool before but didn't like it as I had to almost hold it to use it. Now the station is heavy enough to keep it in place. I did the same to the other two stations I have, one for the layout and one for Ed. Now I use the wool and the sponge, the sponge more as it is a quick wipe on it and the the wool when I need a deeper clean on the tip.  I mostly use Lead Free but still the fume extractor is great and keeps the smoke out of my face.  Got one for Ed to use also.  Besides being a good health safety thing it just makes soldering more enjoyable.

I run the iron as hot as it goes regardless of if I'm soldering small wire, a very small SMD resistor, drops to a track or building a turnout.  I vary the length of time on the solder joint accordingly.  I want to get on and off the joint as quick as possible and make sure that the flux is out of the joint.


Not sure if I noticed tips lasting longer or not and not really concerned with that as tips cost about $1 each for my $14 iron and I've changed tips maybe 2 or 3 times in the last 12 months and have done probably over a 500 solder joints during that time.


The panel above has over 300 in it alone.  I solder a lot and like it.  The more you do the better you will get.  It isn't that hard and I think I could teach anybody to solder decently in 30 minutes.  Most soldering isn't rocket science.

I have more detailed info on all of the above on my site here....

https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Servo%20Control/page-7-b.html

Sumner
« Last Edit: October 10, 2026, 11:44:34 AM by Sumner »
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nickelplate759

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2026, 12:46:25 PM »
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Some fluxes have a shelf life, although I have a bottle of Superior No.30 Supersafe Solder Flux that's probably 30 years old, and it still works okay on my turnouts and trackwork, along with repairing brass engines & rolling stock, and building etched brass/nickel silver kits.  When the blue fades, it's supposed to be replaced, but...like I said, it still is working excellently.  Just for information's sake, you can get Superior No. 30 Supersafe Solder Flux here: https://www.hnflux.com/ along with my favorite silver-bearing 96/4 Tin/Silver solder for turnout building, trackwork and a lot of other brass/bronze/nickel-silver/copper soldering jobs.

I used to be a big believer in the wet sponge to clean my iron tips between soldering joints, but recently I learned that using a wet sponge will fairly quickly ruin a good iron tip. Cleaning a soldering iron tip with a wet sponge ruins it quickly because the sudden temperature drop causes thermal shock, which cracks the tip's protective iron plating allowing air and aggressive materials to get to and oxidize & dissolve the underlying copper core of the tip.

A better solution is "brass wool" or a "dry brass sponge" which I have been using with my new digital Hakko FX888DX-010BY soldering station even though the included iron holder includes a wet sponge as well as a space for the included  dry brass sponge.

What happens, particularly with solders that have a high tin content such as my favorite 96/4 Tin/Silver solder, is that the iron plating on tip cracks because of the sudden temperature change when water in the wet sponge steams away, allowing air and molten tin to get into the micro cracks.  Molten tin acts as a copper solvent, so the cracks get bigger and it becomes increasingly difficult to tin the tip because it becomes porous and blackens until tinning is impossible.
...
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

I notice that when I tin the tip it quickly turns from silver to a kind of golden color.  Does that mean it's dissolving copper and I need a new tip?

I did just get one of those brass wool cleaner thingies, and they do work nicely, but I've used a sponge a long time.
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Chris333

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2026, 12:47:27 PM »
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lol   I remember the first time I heard about Superior No. 30. I ordered some and never got it to work at all. Still have it.

I use thick plumbing flux from Home Depot.

nickelplate759

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2026, 01:12:49 PM »
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I also never seen those crystal formations.  Even the past looks sickly. I would ditch those!

For trackwork I would go with @robert3985 Superior liquid flux.  It really, really works well (I apply it with a largest size Micro-Brush). A little goes a long way. It is not expensive and worthy investment.  BTW, I still prefer the standard Radio Shack rosin electronic past flux for super precision electronic soldering.

Also, I don't know what you use for soldering iron, but remember to keep the iron's tip very clean and shiny coated with wet solder.  Moist sponge is your best friend.  I see some people building super nice layouts using 30 year old Radio Shack pencil iron with a burned tip for soldering.  When one is spending thousands of dollars on the layout it makes sense to buy a decent quality iron. Not saying it is you, but I see that all often.

Soldering iron is nothing fancy, a Weller WLC100 40W soldering station with a dial adjustment for heat (not calibrated or anything, just number 1-5).
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Sumner

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2026, 01:13:32 PM »
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lol   I remember the first time I heard about Superior No. 30. I ordered some and never got it to work at all. Still have it.

I use thick plumbing flux from Home Depot.

Plumbing flux is normally acidic and shouldn't be used on wiring (or electronics) and needs to be cleaned well when used with plumbing or other items.  Fast Tracks flux is also acidic and shouldn't be used with wiring (any electronics) and turnouts have to be cleaned well after soldering them.

Not sure what the problem was with the Superior 30 you used.  I've never had a problem and since it is liquid it flows onto surfaces, like soldering a round track drop to rail, making the solder flow where it is needed.

Sumner

Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

Chris333

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2026, 01:30:13 PM »
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I remember someone wanted me to build turnouts using their FT jig. I didn't want to use the Home Depot stuff so I asked around and bought a different type. It pitted the FT jig (that wasn't mine). So then I tried the Superior #30 and couldn't get the solder to melt or flow. So I went back to the Home Depot stuff:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSeal-Nokorode-Regular-Paste-Flux-1-7-oz-14004/202281197

Just sayin'  I dunno everyone does stuff differently.

Sumner

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2026, 04:44:15 PM »
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The Home Depot flux should be fine for turnout building since it is probably not much different that what Fast Tracks uses.  I thought you were also saying you used it as an all-around flux for electronics and wiring.  Sorry if that wasn't the case.

Sumner
Working in N Scale ---Modeling UP from late 40's to early 70's very loosely......

Under$8.00 Servo turnout Control --- 3D Printed Model RR Objects -- My Home Page

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR Main/Link Page Menu.html

peteski

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Re: Old Flux - does it go bad?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2026, 10:59:49 AM »
+2
I remember someone wanted me to build turnouts using their FT jig. I didn't want to use the Home Depot stuff so I asked around and bought a different type. It pitted the FT jig (that wasn't mine). So then I tried the Superior #30 and couldn't get the solder to melt or flow. So I went back to the Home Depot stuff:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RectorSeal-Nokorode-Regular-Paste-Flux-1-7-oz-14004/202281197

Just sayin'  I dunno everyone does stuff differently.

How would any flux prevent  solder from melting!? That makes not sense to me since it is heat that melts the metal.  Flux (any flux) actually improves thermal conductivity between items being soldered, making them heat up quicker. Hey, if plumber's flux works for you - what can we say . . .

Since you were probably using as metal fixture I wonder if the flux was actually acting as a heat conductor, draining heat away from the joint area into the large metal fixture acting as a heat sink.  With the temperature dropped that would cause the solder not to melt. Just a thought . . .

When building turnouts in a fixture, you can then wash any remains of flux off, so it really does not matter much what kind you're using - as long as any acidic stuff gets thoroughly rinsed off, things will be ok.  But when you are soldering rail joiners or feeders to a track glued on the layout, fully removing the flux is much more difficult.

I notice that when I tin the tip it quickly turns from silver to a kind of golden color.  Does that mean it's dissolving copper and I need a new tip?

I did just get one of those brass wool cleaner thingies, and they do work nicely, but I've used a sponge a long time.

No, it is not copper. It you are seeing oxidation of the solder.  The tip might be too hot. But even using a lower temperature, the solder will eventually oxidize after a brief  time.   Better grade soldering tips have a copper core (for maximum heat conduction), then they are iron plated for long life, and finally nickel plated since solder will easily stick to nickel.  The cheap Radio Shack variety pencil irons had copper tips which were just nickel plated. Those would not lost very long and get pitted easily.

The proper way to prep the tip is to always wipe of clean to expose shiny solver color ras you pick up the iron to make a joint, then solder the joint and immediately after clean the tip, apply tin the tip with some fresh solder to build up slightly thicker layer on the tip, then put the iron back in the holder.  Do they ever time you make a joint.  It should be a habit.

The reason apply extra solder to the idling tip is for sacrificing that solder, allowing it to oxidize. So when you clean that solder off the tip immediately before making the next joint you'll have a fresh bright tinned tip ready to make  the next joint.

In the 50 or more years I have soldered (as a hobby and and in professional life), that's how I solder. That's the way I was taught.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2026, 11:03:05 AM by peteski »
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