con cor passenger cars

[mighalpern]

Ok I know this will bring up a lot of opinions but...
So i have made the decision to base my layout on the Northern Pacific., tacoma/cascade-ish area,
So I was looking for passenger cars  for the North Coast Limited
and see that the Con Cor website offers the Lowery two tone version as a set or individual.  I know I have missed the boat with the past Rapido cars, but is Con Cor so bad??
I don't own any Con Cor stuff , just cuz i have never really come across anything that appealed to me in the past. So I don't know what I'm looking for.   BLI announced the F7's in the NCL theme and I'm thinking of getting that as the motive power
I see e-bay has a set from Con Cor  for passenger cars with locos, but I want something current and DCC ready or installed.
So fire away.  I would like a nice passenger train to roll thru my layout one day.
Many thanks
Miguel
 

[CBQ Fan]

I have 5-6 Northern Pacific Rapido cars I could be tempted to sell for the right price.  PM me if you are interested. 

[jmlaboda]

I know I have missed the boat with the past Rapido cars, but is Con Cor so bad??

If accuracy is important to you don't even think about Concor cars.  The smooth sided cars not only were inaccurate but are also 40+ year old tooling... if you want accuracy you are better off building your own cars from what is available... click on the User's Guide link below and then select the NP page... you will find a lot of information about cars there.

[nickelplate759]

First - If the ConCor cars make you happy, then don't worry too much about their lack of accuracy. 
If you crave accuracy, you will mostly end up building and painting your own, and even then you will make some compromises.  For example, the observation car would pretty much require a serious kitbash or scratchbuild job, but you can come pretty close with some simple mods to the Kato observation, along with some green paint.   The good news is that True Color makes terrific paint for the NCL.  Here's my attempt at the observation (poor cell-phone photo with bad lighting):
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That's a Kato car, True Color paint, Microscale decals, some Gold Medal Models details and a little knife and putty work on the skirts, roof and right side (to fill the upper-berth windows).

George

[nkalanaga]

The early ConCor cars really aren't that bad, with the biggest issue being that the windows are slightly too tall.  The domes are correct for the NP dome coaches, and are the only plastic ones available that are, so it's them or brass sides, which are designed to go on the ConCor cars.  Either way, you'll be using the ConCor roof, dome, floor, and ends.

The coach and observation are GN prototypes, and wrong for the NP.  Kato's coach is probably as close as you'll get, although Centralia made theirs in NP, and it doesn't look bad.

Their early RPO-Baggage car is from the 1947 Empire Builder, and I don't think the NP had anything close to it.

As for the thier later smoothside cars, they seem to have been "inspired" by the GN, but weren't executed very well.  In particular, the diner and Pullman are mirror images of the prototype, and neither are right for the NP.  The Pullman is probably the closest you'll find to the NP's cars, though, and you could probably get away with it, if you're more interested in a "good looking train" than being prototypical.  They only had a couple of them, but the old Rivarossi 10-6 isn't too far off for the NP.

I used a Kato diner as a standing for my NP car, now in Amtrak service.

Centralia's 56 seat coach is correct for the NP, but not until the 1960s.

Either a CC or Kato Slumbercoach would be correct, and Kato made theirs in NP. 

I used Scalecoat paint on my cars, in  the spray cans.

The CC set had their "F3" locos, which could charitably be described as toys, and more accurately as junk.  The cars were the right colors, but the lettering was the wrong size, and I finally repainted or replaced all of mine anyway.  The locos became industrial details, and were replaced with Minitrix Fs. 

[mighalpern]

Ok
so alot of ideas given, thanks.
Jerry the link was very useful and mind blowing
nKalanaga thanks for the response, excellent synopsis,  just isn't going to be easy is it?? 
Nickleplate, that's a very nice job, sounds easy enough, until you let me know what simple mods means    but can I get the observation car by itself ???
I would love to be accurate, prototypical. I have never modeled after anything since railroading was not in my youth so i have nothing for refrence  which makes me  feel that I'm to late for that and a decent looking set could do.  Jeez I havn't built my second section yet and I am wanting accuracy 
CBQ- I'll PM you in a day or so thanks.
thanks for mentioning about the paint, was wondering who made a good match.  keep the info coming,
Miguel

[eric220]

Miguel-

Be prepared to swap out trucks on the Con Cor cars. The CZ competitor that I put together with Con Cor cars needs that surgery. Right now it can't make it around a curve without derailing.

[nickelplate759]

Regarding modifying the Kato car, it went something like this:

1. trim off the skirts between the trucks
2. fill the upper-birth windows on the right side (the two tiny ones near the roof)
3. fill the holes in the roof where the antennae supports go, and smooth those areas.
4. drill holes in the roof for new antennae supports and install.
5. replace roof grabs & ladder supports with wire/etched details
6. reconfigure roof vents to be closer to the NP vents.  I did this for fun, including building a new vent on the left side above the rear truck.  Maybe not worth the effort.
7. Paint & decal.

OR - you could just buy the prepainted version from Intermountain (but the colors will be a little different).

George

[nkalanaga]

The early CC smoothside cars had very nice trucks, with 36 inch wheels, and small flanges, all made by Kato. 

The later ones I bought, in the late 70s and early 80s, had the truck bolsters modified so they could use standard freight wheels, and still ride at the right height.  Those ran fine, but didn't look right, and installing 36 inch wheels raised the cars slightly.  A little filing on the body bolster fixed it, but it was a nuisance. 

Both versions were correct for the GN's Empire Builder cars.  Other than the window size, Kato (Sekisui then) did a very nice job on the first four cars.  The only thing they're really missing are the corner skirts, and that's a natural omission given the truck mounted couplers and sharp curves of the period.

What they use today I have no idea, as I haven't bought any for probably 30 years...

[Nato]

                   The Trucks on the current Con Cor smooth side cars GN/NP etc. Are nice and free rolling, the trucks however on their Budd cars with a semiautomatic knuckle coupler, were awful, they would not stay coupled most people modified them extensively. Con Cor solved that problem by making a deal with MTL and offering their couplers on the trucks. Also Con Cor came out with the "Ridged Jaw" which was a non operational copy of an MTL coupler with non moveable parts these came on trucks and may no longer be in production . Brass car sides made or makes Budd Dome Sleeper sides to go on the Con Cor dome coach. The Con Cor train set referred to was one of those sets in the fake wood grain box. The F-'s were old Fleischman which Con Cor sold at the time in other paint schemes. When Con Cor decided to offer NP painted cars as open stock the paint and graphics were upgraded, and better car numbers applied. As a person who got to view NP two tone green cars several times I would say that Con Cor got the colors spot on, so did Rapido, not Arnold Rapido who offered an NP Painted train of their shorty ATSF like fluted cars and their FP9 locomotive. The colors on these were way off. IM Centrallia NP colors appear off, but their observation car is more accurate than the similar KATO  PS car and the only model I have seen with the large white V design on the rear end striping which was only applied to one car. The Centrallia coaches are models of North Western cars that Northern Pacific purchased second hand as did GN then repainted. The two tone green paint on the Walthers cars is also very nice. The Walthers short baggage car looks the most like NP short cars. The North Coast Limited RPO car were unique, they were RPO Baggage Dormitory cars, built in 1947 by Pullman Standard and delivered in the Pine Tree Scheme. One car was destroyed in a wreck in Montana in the late 1960's and NP purchased an ACF built RPO baggage from Chicago & Northwestern that matched the KATO UP car. This was rebuilt with dorm space. Brass car sides was going to do the Budd diner sides, but this has never happened. Nate Goodman (Nato). 

[nkalanaga]

Nato:  Good to hear that CC improved the graphics on their NP cars, and I agree, the original colors were fine.  It was just the lettering that looked strange.

I have one of the Brass Car Sides dome-sleepers, painted NP, and it does make a nice car.

Centralia's NP colors look close enough for me, but I model 1974 BN/Amtrak, and the prototypes had several years of fading and weathering by then.  There was more variation than would be found on a freshly painted, or well washed, train.