Author Topic: Rapido FL9s in the house!  (Read 8771 times)

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bbussey

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2016, 05:58:29 PM »
0
I didn't say people were happy with the current FA situation.  I said that the consumer base won't support another FA model in N scale, because it didn't support the Life-Like units which were quality models.  I said it makes more sense for a manufacturer to invest in another project other than an N scale FA model.
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Mr Z

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2016, 06:48:22 PM »
+1
In some ways I agree with Brian about the previous released Life Like FA's.

The thing is I wouldn't be looking to Rapido to produce the FA2 but the FPA4. If you follow that most of Rapido's business is producing Canadian design passenger equipment then at some point you are going to have to get engines to pull all those Panorama cars you've been collecting.

The only thing that's been on the market is Intermountain's FP7. Close but American prototype, not GMD Canada.

That leaves the FPA4, which powered passenger trains for CN and VIA. They can offer it in at least 2 CN schemes, several variations of VIA and a number of shortline operators post VIA. Besides have you ever tried to kit bash one, it's not that simple.

If Rapido can do well with the GMD-1 then I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't at least seriously thinking about the FPA4.

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OldEastRR

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2016, 06:52:28 PM »
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I didn't say people were happy with the current FA situation.  I said that the consumer base won't support another FA model in N scale, because it didn't support the Life-Like units which were quality models.  I said it makes more sense for a manufacturer to invest in another project other than an N scale FA model.

When did the metal-frame FA2s come out? Before, or during the ramp-up of DCC use?

As for another FA, best bet would probably be Bachmann, since they went ahead with a GG1 long after KATO made theirs. Maybe it's a Chinese v. Japanese reputation thing ...

Sometimes you gotta laugh: anybody else think it's a funny twist a loco (FL9) that prototypically was dual usage can come in a model version that's only single (DC but not DC/DCC)?  :D :D :D :lol:

bbussey

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2016, 07:43:03 PM »
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the split-metal frame FA2/FB2 was released after the FA1/FB1 and before the DCC ramp-up.
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Leggy

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2016, 08:38:16 PM »
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Would it be at all realistic to run these with normal pantos (freelancing) instead of third rail shoes and can the third rail equipment be removed from the sideframes on the models? Potentially dumb questions  :ashat:

bbussey

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2016, 12:42:12 AM »
+1
From the latest Rapido newsletter regarding the DC FL9s.  Hopefully, this puts an end to the issue.

N Scale's Two Solitudes

With our new FL9 locomotive we ran smack into the middle of the great divide within the N scale community. Much more so than HO, the feedback we've received from the N scale community suggests a major schism between DC and DCC. Among HO modellers, many DC users are planning to switch to DCC or have decided that at this stage in their hobby there is no point. Very few new layouts are being built using DC.

But in N scale, DC is still king. And this is something I now understand and wholeheartedly respect.

When we started making N scale locomotives, we approached DC and DCC as if we were making HO scale locomotives. We focused most of our R&D on DCC models and DC was more of an afterthought. This was a colossal mistake.

Before we delivered the N scale GMD-1 we announced the N scale FL9, still making the same assumption. But then the GMD-1 came out, and we realized how wrong we were. DC users vastly outnumbered DCC users. And DC users were rightfully pissed off when their engines did not run as well as their DCC/sound-equipped counterparts. Our original plan not to offer a DC-only FL9 model would not fly.

What were we to do? Well, we went back to the drawing board for the FL9. We designed it first as a DC locomotive, and then we added DCC and sound. We tested numerous silent DCC decoders and were unhappy with their performance on DC, so we dropped the decoders from the silent models. But as we had originally announced that the silent models would come with DCC, we decided to include a coupon for a complimentary silent decoder for the few of you who ordered the silent model for your DCC-equipped layout. That was Mike's idea.

We've had half a dozen calls from DCC customers upset that they have to install their decoders themselves, but it is honestly the best solution we could find. It is very hard to bridge the yawning chasm that exists between DC and DCC users. The result is we have a silent locomotive which works beautifully in DC out of the box, and we have a sound-equipped locomotive which works beautifully in DC and DCC out of the box.

Mike would have been proud of our FL9. We finally hit one out of the park in N scale. One of our distributors just bought all of our remaining inventory and another distributor came calling the next day but was too late! If you haven't seen our FL9 yet, please contact your local hobby shop. We're now completely sold out.
Bryan Busséy
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OldEastRR

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2016, 02:44:03 AM »
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Regarding the big difference in N scale DC users v. HO, maybe the answer is it's pretty easy to add even a hard-wired decoder to any HO engine, even the old ones,  since they've got cave-loads of space under the shell. But to add a hard-wired decoder to any shell-crammed N scale loco means chopping out part of and grooving wire runs in the frame or chassis, and if they are metal that is a hard task for anybody w/o a mini-machine  shop on their work desk.

Chris333

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2016, 03:12:58 AM »
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Not that I care much about it, but DCC locomotives do run like crap on a DC layout. Most of the time the decoder can be tweaked to run much better on DC. But if you have DC then you have no way to program a decoder.

Then I find it funny how people complain about installing a decoder when most of the time they don't like the factory decoder and change it anyways.

peteski

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2016, 03:30:06 AM »
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Regarding the big difference in N scale DC users v. HO, maybe the answer is it's pretty easy to add even a hard-wired decoder to any HO engine, even the old ones,  since they've got cave-loads of space under the shell. But to add a hard-wired decoder to any shell-crammed N scale loco means chopping out part of and grooving wire runs in the frame or chassis, and if they are metal that is a hard task for anybody w/o a mini-machine  shop on their work desk.

Geez! Really?!
 I'm sure the FL9 has the standard 6-pin NEM socket and will accept a standard plug-n-play 6-pin decoder.  :facepalm:  No hard-wiring anything for goodness sakes!
. . . 42 . . .

bobdobbs

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2016, 06:55:03 AM »
-1
From the latest Rapido newsletter regarding the DC FL9s.  Hopefully, this puts an end to the issue.

N Scale's Two Solitudes

With our new FL9 locomotive we ran smack into the middle of the great divide within the N scale community. Much more so than HO, the feedback we've received from the N scale community suggests a major schism between DC and DCC. Among HO modellers, many DC users are planning to switch to DCC or have decided that at this stage in their hobby there is no point. Very few new layouts are being built using DC.

But in N scale, DC is still king. And this is something I now understand and wholeheartedly respect.

When we started making N scale locomotives, we approached DC and DCC as if we were making HO scale locomotives. We focused most of our R&D on DCC models and DC was more of an afterthought. This was a colossal mistake.

Before we delivered the N scale GMD-1 we announced the N scale FL9, still making the same assumption. But then the GMD-1 came out, and we realized how wrong we were. DC users vastly outnumbered DCC users. And DC users were rightfully pissed off when their engines did not run as well as their DCC/sound-equipped counterparts. Our original plan not to offer a DC-only FL9 model would not fly.

What were we to do? Well, we went back to the drawing board for the FL9. We designed it first as a DC locomotive, and then we added DCC and sound. We tested numerous silent DCC decoders and were unhappy with their performance on DC, so we dropped the decoders from the silent models. But as we had originally announced that the silent models would come with DCC, we decided to include a coupon for a complimentary silent decoder for the few of you who ordered the silent model for your DCC-equipped layout. That was Mike's idea.

We've had half a dozen calls from DCC customers upset that they have to install their decoders themselves, but it is honestly the best solution we could find. It is very hard to bridge the yawning chasm that exists between DC and DCC users. The result is we have a silent locomotive which works beautifully in DC out of the box, and we have a sound-equipped locomotive which works beautifully in DC and DCC out of the box.

Mike would have been proud of our FL9. We finally hit one out of the park in N scale. One of our distributors just bought all of our remaining inventory and another distributor came calling the next day but was too late! If you haven't seen our FL9 yet, please contact your local hobby shop. We're now completely sold out.


I never got the newsletter when I ordered my FL9 over a year ago, and understood the unit would have a DCC decoder installed.  Anyway, it is a great engine and I am pleased with its operation, and this being a discussion forum, I think people can whine, Kvetch, and compliment  in a positive manner as much as they wish. 

An aside, has anyone had an issue with the MU hoses dragging on the rail?
[

bbussey

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2016, 08:29:10 AM »
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It happens if there are imperfections in the track. If you file or trim the end of the hoses slightly, the problem goes away.

I actually removed the rear MU detail parts from my NH and AMTK units because back-to-back units wouldn't have the hoses hanging down. On my NH units, I clipped the hoses off and left the housings, because the hoses were not left attached on the prototype the overwhelming majority of the time as they rarely ran in a consist of more than two units. In fact, the front MU housings were only on the 1956 group, with the roof pantographs. The 1960 batch had no MU housings up front.
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jmlaboda

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2016, 02:38:18 PM »
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Quote
The only thing that's been on the market is Intermountain's FP7. Close but American prototype, not GMD Canada.

Ready to run that is the case but it is not the only model out there.  Central Hobbies (in Vancouver) offers Kaslo Shops EMD FP7 and FP9 resin shells including shells to model the very last order of FP9s that were built with two 48" fans instead of the four 36" fans (these units were internally GP18s), which are high in detail, especially compared to IMRC's crap.  Yes, I said it... their crap.  A roof panel without any rivets that does not nest properly into the top of the shell makes the models an eye-sore to me... I will never have one.  The Kaslo shells are able able to be customized, making them well worth the $75 price tag for any who would want a really great model.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:09:29 PM by jmlaboda »

bobdobbs

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2016, 03:21:10 PM »
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It happens if there are imperfections in the track. If you file or trim the end of the hoses slightly, the problem goes away.

I actually removed the rear MU detail parts from my NH and AMTK units because back-to-back units wouldn't have the hoses hanging down. On my NH units, I clipped the hoses off and left the housings, because the hoses were not left attached on the prototype the overwhelming majority of the time as they rarely ran in a consist of more than two units. In fact, the front MU housings were only on the 1956 group, with the roof pantographs. The 1960 batch had no MU housings up front.

Good Point on the MU hoses!  Yes my track laying skills are marginal at best!  I will remove them.
[

mecgp7

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2016, 07:23:23 PM »
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Second release?

MichaelWinicki

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Re: Rapido FL9s in the house!
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2016, 07:53:57 PM »
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It may be some time before the Rapido folks receive decoder requests or have the ability to get them to the folks that request them...


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