ESM G26 65' Mill Gons - I likes!!!!!

[Mark5]

That gives me an idea.  I'll set up an equipment trust, that way you guys can pay for my rolling stock, and I'll just make sure it keeps rolling! ;D

Lee

I'll get to work on the trust decals.

mark

[Bob Bufkin]

I got 2 of the PRR circle keystone and the one shadow keystone.  Love these cars.  Was a little leary about body mounted couplers but have have no problems on the sharpest curves.  It's almost a shame that I've got to beat these up and weather them.  Think i'll keep the shadow keystone looking almost brand new.  I think I might have ordered a dupe.  If so, Lee - we can figure out some kind of trade.

 

[bbussey]

... I've seen the model and cant imagine a unpainted version would be too much of a burden. But as a business owner I do understand if you have limited resources sometimes you cant produce all products, even those that would be profitable.

It's not that it would be a burden to do, but there are minimums that apply, especially with this car.  It is built from a flat kit (in order to have the detail on the inner sides), so labor is involved ($$) and it's not as simple as popping it out of the mold and into the jewel box. 

If we rerun a number of the schemes in the future, we will consider releasing an undec version.  We'll also consider it with the XIH plug door, since there is time before the production specs have to be finalized.  Maybe we will release the undec model without trucks and couplers to help keep the price down.

[pfs]

... I've seen the model and cant imagine a unpainted version would be too much of a burden. But as a business owner I do understand if you have limited resources sometimes you cant produce all products, even those that would be profitable.

It's not that it would be a burden to do, but there are minimums that apply, especially with this car.  It is built from a flat kit (in order to have the detail on the inner sides), so labor is involved ($$) and it's not as simple as popping it out of the mold and into the jewel box. 

If we rerun a number of the schemes in the future, we will consider releasing an undec version.  We'll also consider it with the XIH plug door, since there is time before the production specs have to be finalized.  Maybe we will release the undec model without trucks and couplers to help keep the price down.

I (for one) would welcome an undec sans trucks and couplers.

Also I was referencing the gon not the box, I should of stipulated this.

thanks for the info.

[inkaneer]

Because it takes money to make things. Especially new things.

If $27 is too rich for your blood, there are still Trainman cars out there (with paid off tooling from the dark ages) for $6, but if $27 cars mean that we've got a new manufacturer in the game, it's great news.

I think the people at Atlas are on to something with the Trainman line.  But if new cars are going to cost $25-30 bucks how will this hobby attract new people?  We may be the dinosaurs of the future.  I started in N Scale in 1982 converting from HO and O before that.  I bought cars at $2.25-$4.95 apiece.   Now less than 30 years later prices have gone up 12 fold. Someone can figure out the inflation rate.  I used to know how to do it but I'm retired now.

[pfs]

In 82 a gallon of gas was a buck or so, and the tooling on N Scale cars were nowhere near what is happening now.

Its all relative.


I am all for true proto models in N, that is where I will put my hobby dollars.

[Ntrainz1]

It is built from a flat kit

any chance kits will be for sale?

Bob.

[asarge]

I'm kinda between INk and the Trainman guys. I like the detail but am very careful at the higher price point. On the other hand if I had a layout that needed several hundred grain or coal hoppers, I need Runners not highly detailed collectables. For the most part, model railroad prices have not really kept up with the cost of living until the last couple of years.

However, the prcices can't keep increasing as they have. It could also be that Atlas and some others have figured the fact that they will have to cover production costs over a much smaller run as sales are not as robust and some of the price increases already reflect that fact.

[Dave V]

I just ordered a PC G26 from The Chuckster and will probably catch one of the next circle keystone runs for my 1956 Pennsy.  The SK is nice, but with a '57 paint date (and a '54 paint scheme) would be too new and shiny in 1956.  I want to weather this guy.

Yes, the price is steep, although Chuck and MBK offer pretty substantial discounts.  But I look at it this way.  This is a car that the BIG manufacturers, the ones who can afford lower pricing due to volume would never touch.  I've wanted examples of PRR-specific cars (including a gon) so I'm willing to pay.  Honestly I think a few highly-detailed proto models help elevate the entire fleet.  I know Trainman doesn't looks as good next to one of these in close-up, but overall it's not objectionable to me.

I'd LOVE for ESM to do another run of the Flexi-Flo hoppers.

[wm3798]

I'll second the motion for a kit to be available.  Since it is a specialty car, it can be safe to assume that your customers are smart enough to handle some assembly...  Especially if it means moving more product and saving us a few bucks.  My guess is that a kit version, even with paint, can be put on the road for about $12, and I'll buy the damn couplers.  Spoon feed those you must, but some of us out here enjoy the trip as much as the destination...

Lee

[bbussey]

any chance kits will be for sale?

Currently there is no plan to do so.

... Yes, the price is steep, although Chuck and MBK offer pretty substantial discounts.  But I look at it this way.  This is a car that the BIG manufacturers, the ones who can afford lower pricing due to volume would never touch.  I've wanted examples of PRR-specific cars (including a gon) so I'm willing to pay.  Honestly I think a few highly-detailed proto models help elevate the entire fleet.  I know Trainman doesn't looks as good next to one of these in close-up, but overall it's not objectionable to me...

The major manufacturers are starting to do more esoteric prototypes, but the G26 is one they wouldn't touch because of the limited prototypical roadnames and the distinctive nature of the car.  I suppose faux roadnames could be offered on the car to increase potential sales and lower the MSRP, but that goes against the company mission statement and is something we never would do.

... I'd LOVE for ESM to do another run of the Flexi-Flo hoppers.

The only reason we released them originally was because the old AHM tooling still existed.  But new 3500pd tooling would be required to meet today's standards, and that would be very expensive to do (and purchase) when there are only a dozen or so prototypical schemes that for that model.

[bbussey]

I'll second the motion for a kit to be available.  Since it is a specialty car, it can be safe to assume that your customers are smart enough to handle some assembly...  Especially if it means moving more product and saving us a few bucks.  My guess is that a kit version, even with paint, can be put on the road for about $12, and I'll buy the damn couplers.  Spoon feed those you must, but some of us out here enjoy the trip as much as the destination...

However - the tooling wasn't designed to offer the plastic as a kit and the arrangement of the components on the runner are not conducive to such; new larger packaging would be required to hold the plastic and the diecast floor securely (more expense); the MTL trucks are a major issue since Dalman, National B-1 and Coil Elliptic frames are not available commercially without coupler arms and won't be anytime soon; and kits simply don't sell well enough, or all the manufacturers would do it.  It's not as straightforward as it sounds, unfortunately.

[wm3798]

Well of course the kits don't sell well...  You don't offer them for us to buy!  Chicken>Egg...

Lee

[bbussey]

Touché 

[inkaneer]

There is a larger issue here that needs to be explored.  That issue involves the question of whether the manufacturers are pricing themselves out of business.  How can anyone entering this hobby afford rolling stock at $25+ prices?  My point here is that the upward spiral of pricing is unsustainable.  As the price rises people drop out and the market shrinks. As the market shrinks production is cut back causing unit costs to then rise necessitating a price increase.  More people drop out and the market shrinks some more and so on and so on it goes.  At some point everyone has to say that is too much to pay for that product.  So what is that point with you?  Have you thought about it?  

Someone mentioned the price of gasoline in 1980 was $1.00.  Today it is $2.69.  Last year it was $4.29.  Even at the higher price last year that was only about a four fold increase in price in 30 years.  But the price for the ESM gon is over 12 fold the price in 1980.  Do the math, that is over three times the four fold increase in the cost of gas.  And what do you get for that 12 fold increase?  More rivets.  Really, that is all you get.  Does the car track better, run better or make your layout look better? Does it do anything better than a car from thirty years ago?  It may only look better.  But is that a plus?

There is something to be said for consistency.   Take five young women for example.  All about average in looks, the typical 'girl next door' types.  No one stands out so as a group, the group looks right.  Now add a 'babe' model.  Instantly the group does not look right.  The babe stands out and makes the other women look worse than they are.  Same is true with adding a super detailed model.  The point being that one 'babe' model does not improve the the whole but detracts from it.  Yeah, the model looks good by itself but when added to the mix makes the mix look worse than it is.  The same is true with track.  Everyone bemoans C80 for its size and tie spacing.  But on a layout with all C 80 everything is consistant and everything blends in.  Now add one piece of C55 and the whole scene changes.  That one piece of C55 makes the rest of the layout with C80 look like crap. Just my $.02 worth.