TheRailwire
General Discussion => Weathering, Detailing, and Scratchbuilding => Topic started by: GaryHinshaw on September 10, 2008, 07:26:31 PM
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This is a follow-up to an item I posted in last week's weekend update on fading with acrylic paints. After botching an attempt to fade a BN car with a coat of thinned reefer white (too many obvious over-spray artifacts), I did a bit of research on alternatives and found that many forms of acrylic tube paints come in a form with transparent pigments. In particular, white paint with a titanium pigment is opaque, while white paint with a zinc pigment is transparent or semi-transparent. (Transparent paint was a counter-intuitive concept for me, but I'm sure it's well known to some of you.)
My first attempt with a zinc-based white was with Liquitex's Mixing White (some results are shown in the update thread) but the fine print on the tube reveals that it contains lead which I prefer not to spray... (I can hear the Monty Python retort in my head: but it's not got much rat in it!) So I picked up Zinc White from the M.Graham line, along with some of their Matte Medium for thinning/dulling the finish:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Y8WrBRdXaUw/SMfpIAeZOOI/AAAAAAAADbY/mVfqR_QbBP4/s400/DSCN7651.JPG)
This brand does not contain lead, so how well does it work? Here are a few quick test cases, all based on mixing about 2 parts medium to 1 part paint, then thinned with windshield washer fluid (though you could also thin with water - only spray WW fluid with adequate ventilation). I set the compressor pressure in the high teens and spray at a rate where I can barely see the plume, then just hit it with many coat in succession.
[NOTE ADDED: in post #11 below I decided to switch from Matte Medium to Microscale Flat finish as the dulling agent. I found the latter to be easier to work with and give better results. I suspect that any brand of acrylic flat finish would be just as good, but I haven't tested others.]
Here are a few bright containers - factory finish on top, fade on the bottom. The Hyundai set used a minimal fade, the K Line a bit more:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qN0yRNGdkVo/SMfpUxomN3I/AAAAAAAADbY/GsOg01QAGmY/s800/DSCN7708.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wesqk6R1h7s/SMfpPJElh8I/AAAAAAAADbY/nr4qKwHddWc/s800/DSCN7707.JPG)
The nice thing about this paint is that it really is transparent at these application rates - it can produce a pretty decent looking fade effect without looking gauzy. The matte medium also seems to give a pretty good flat finish to go along with it.
Here are a few old box cars I tested as well. The first shot of the RG box has a minimal fade on the left half, the second has a more aggressive fade on the right half (factory finish elsewhere):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oW9sNwloqPM/SMfpYWn6VcI/AAAAAAAADbY/gs3rvtNu-Yg/s800/DSCN7710.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Fz4qK0TQve0/SMfpb5sIKFI/AAAAAAAADbY/ZKDvQgH10cs/s800/DSCN7711.JPG)
Again, no obvious spray artifacts compared to opaque pigment paint. Finally, a classic weathering challenge scheme, before & after a light fade:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZXK9wdgz-Ys/SMfpjUEM9mI/AAAAAAAADbY/FTf8NGmdSEs/s800/DSCN7706.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nSY9RzSuamE/SMfpmYmhSYI/AAAAAAAADbY/CjRMeh7Ulyw/s800/DSCN7705.JPG)
This does a pretty nice job of dulling the silver paint too. So far I'm quite happy with the results. I'll post more as I continue to try this out and step up the level of distress. Comments and advice welcome!
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. I also picked up some tubes of their transparent iron oxide colors as well (based on synthetic pigments). They have a yellow, orange, and reddish brown that may be useful for tinted fades, or base coats for rusting. Don't know yet...
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Thank you for taking the initiative to update this information and post it in the how-to section. This is very useful information to have handy.
(And nice to find another Python fan. "Don't you take the bones out?")
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P.S. I also picked up some tubes of their transparent iron oxide colors as well (based on synthetic pigments). They have a yellow, orange, and reddish brown that may be useful for tinted fades, or base coats for rusting. Don't know yet...
Nice stuff, Gary...I would like to see the iron oxide colors.
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Thanks Gents. I thought this topic fit better in the "slinging dung" section of Railwire. I'm headed down to the basement shortly to try out some of the oxides, though in truth, I'm not really sure what I'll do with them yet... I'll report back.
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Gary, I like the results you're getting. Thanks for posting your method in more detail here.
My question involves the use of windshield wiper fluid as a thinner. Is there a specific advantage to using it versus other alternatives? (Obviously, price by volume would be considered a huge advantage!) It just seems like a curious choice of thinning agent, unless it possesses some magic quality besides price that I am unaware of.
Thanks!
Pete D.
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Have you thought about adding a tiny bit of some oxide to the white mixture when fading reds? It ought to reduce the maroon effect without screwing up the lettering.
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Pete:
WW fluid has very nice flow properties (low surface tension) so I find it gives water-based paint similar properties to solvent based paint. It also helps produce a very flat finish. I learned of it from Rich Yourstone's wash recipes and thought I would try it with the airbrush. Having said that, I will reiterate that it's poisonous -- only use with adequate ventilation when spraying. I simply haven't tried water or other thinners with this particular brew - but it should work fine. Let me know if you do.
Iain:
I'm definitely interested in trying the oxides but I haven't had a chance yet (never made it down to the basement last night...). Should have some time in the next few days, so I'll post results when I do.
Thanks for the feedback,
Gary
P.S. It's a blast having so many new things to try! :)
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Velly Intelestink!
(http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/7/70/Arte1.jpg)
Thanks for the info!
Mark
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Thats the best post painted fading I've seen . Have you tried it on a black tankcar , steam loco , or plate girder bridge ?
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Thanks Richie - I'm very happy with how this paint is performing. So far I have only tried it on one black tanker and I didn't go very far with it, so it's hard to tell how a heavy fade might go. In any case this one worked quite well, i.e. no visible spray artifacts. Here's a shot of an Atlas tanker before (rear) & after (front):
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Yig3A4-st8g/SM5vKgLRgkI/AAAAAAAADbY/TnFOrEgFWsI/s800/DSCN7728.JPG)
[It was hard to get a photo that shows the fade very clearly...] For fun here's a comparison to a shiny new ethanol tanker:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1nLA0KaQuMY/SM5vjxgqDyI/AAAAAAAADbY/4qIil1StAGA/s800/DSCN7730.JPG)
but the base colors here are different to start with. I'll be trying heavier applications soon, I'm sure.
Cheers,
Gary
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This is great stuff, thank you for sharing/taking the time to.
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Ok - time for some updates. Here is the current lineup of material:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vFq2-k0rbcQ/SN91PatXt-I/AAAAAAAADbY/jTr7DpBYu80/s400/DSCN7762.JPG)
I have decided that the matte medium is a bit too thick for fade work; the Microscale flat gives a more subtle finish. I have also been trying the transparent oxides mixed with the zinc white to see how that does. I've only scratched the surface with these but so far I'm pretty pleased with the results. Here is a shot of two fade brews ready for spraying (freshly shaken to make sure the color shows up):
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uyOBvU-hD6Y/SN91YW0FbWI/AAAAAAAADbY/61MizQQagTg/s400/DSCN7764.JPG)
Both consist of ~1 part zinc white, ~1 part color (transparent yellow on the left, orange on the right), ~2-3 parts flat finish, then thinned with WW fluid to the consistency of skim milk. The degree of color in these mixes is surprising, but read on.
First test is an IM BN boxcar. Here is a proto shot that served as a reference:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=9609 (http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=9609)
I wasn't really going for the level of distress in this photo (especially in the lettering) since I'm not that talented, but this shot does show that the green has faded to a very yellowish tint, hence I'll try the yellow brew shown above. Here is the factory model:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Zv_ec4kjXy4/SN90kiLhAMI/AAAAAAAADbY/THxmNnbuNJk/s800/DSCN7740.JPG)
The only mod I made was to switch to FVM wheels - I'm not going for a showpiece, just something that will look "good" in a 40-car train. I first hit it with a gloss coat and a few graffiti decals, then followed with a few coats of plain flat white fade. Then I masked the door and a few regions that were painted over and hit it with several coats of the yellow brew. Here is the intermediate result:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xwE73r_FRTU/SN90pLuiilI/AAAAAAAADbY/7InpUlB1mR8/s800/DSCN7743.JPG)
Despite the obvious yellow tint to the brew, the effect of the yellow is very subtle, e.g. on the lettering. I finished this off with a light colored wash (~60/40 raw sienna and raw umber) and some basic rust work:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5Hf4-jC5FEQ/SN90rb2I7HI/AAAAAAAADbY/w8SFrhcvgpQ/s800/DSCN7746.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_vkwMhiU6gA/SN904xI6TeI/AAAAAAAADbY/ZgBe9kh_AkY/s800/DSCN7748.JPG)
The wash helped to highlight the contrast between the faded sections and the "paint-outs" (which are just unfaded sections).
Next up is a generic boxcar red job, an Atlas double-plug door:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ksVm8Z-sKlA/SN99IEt7MKI/AAAAAAAADbY/yvx1vMVcWY0/s800/DSCN7751.JPG)
Here's a proto shot I used as a guide:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=387538 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=387538)
For this I used the orange-tinted brew with no paint-outs, followed by a similar light wash and some rust work:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j8ofoQ_WjKU/SN99NLt8R0I/AAAAAAAADbY/2K9ZN4U4aJY/s800/DSCN7756.JPG)
Again, minimal detail work: BLMA crosswalks and MT trucks with extended couplers to simulate cushion frames (a cheap thrill, but it works for me) and of course FVM wheels. Here is a final shot showing before & after side by side:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EHUBUMNKWi8/SN99SLQg41I/AAAAAAAADbY/3LCdwFqddwY/s800/DSCN7759.JPG)
The final finish is not quite as orange as in the proto photo, but I think it works ok. Also, it's hard to see in the photo, but in person the finish on this car has a quality that is hard to articulate, but it seems to have a depth that looks incredibly realistic under good light. I think these transparent colors are basically glazes (but w/o a glossy sheen) that contributes to the depth.
Next up: trying to fade a blue Golden West Service box I just received in my latest Chuck-pack. I'm wondering if the orange brew might work here since it's complementary to the blue and hence might block the blue more effectively than a straight white. I don't really know what I'm talking about here, and I'd love to hear from someone who does, but I'll report back.
-Gary
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This is such good stuff Gary. You're nailing the everyday runners that can make up the bulk of a modern fleet.
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Nice work indeed! Not too over-the-top.
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That has come out really well mate, looks very realistic.
:)
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You should send this to N Scale Mag . Your results are outstanding . The yellowing of the otherwise stark white lettering is so realistic and the tankcars came out great , so that means so would steamers , bridges , hoppers , etc . Terrific !
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Thanks for the feedback guys. You're right that I'm going for the run-of-the mill stuff that is the staple of modern RRing, so I'm glad it comes across that way. My goal is that for most cars you should have to look twice (but not three times) to tell if it's been weathered at all, but that it should be obvious when seen next to an unweathered car.
I think the yellowing of the BN lettering has come mostly from the raw sienna in the wash and less from the yellow-tinted fade coat. I'm really surprised how little these transparent oxides affect white colors. They seem to have more of an affect on canceling the complementary color in the base paint... I'm going to have to read up on that though. FWIW, I tried a quick test this afternoon of using the orange-tinted fade on a scrap blue container I had and the result was very encouraging. Can't wait to try it on the Golden West box.
Richie - give this brew a try on a steamer and post some results! And here's a deal: I'll write write up an article if you write one up on your LIRR train. ;)
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. Rowan - post #1, welcome to Railwire!
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Ok - time to post the Golden West fade test. Results are mixed, but mostly positive. I started out with an Atlas FGE car from my latest Chuck-pak. Here's a proto-photo for reference:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=28905 (http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=28905)
and the model out of the box:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9y-pV3S-m8k/SP696sxrnLI/AAAAAAAADbY/IYCq5ji53Dw/s800/DSCN7928.JPG)
I applied a few simple upgrades first: painted the roof blue as per the proto photos I could find, BLMA coupler platforms, MT/1037 trucks (with coupler box painted blue...) and FVM wheels.
Now, I believe the transparent oxide paints act according to subtractive color theory which means for example, that a transparent yellow layer would preferentially absorb or filter out blue, and so forth. Here is a nice brief reference on the topic:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/filter.html#c1 (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/filter.html#c1)
So I started out with the yellow tinted brew noted previously and applied several coats. I wasn't completely satisfied with the results (not enough fade) so I switched to an orange tinted brew and applied several more coats (all applied very lightly). Here is the result:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u_Blz-HANxY/SP699Rn-W3I/AAAAAAAADbY/ifW2AiP8fR4/s800/DSCN7912.JPG)
Note that the blue is quite faded, the red less so, and the yellow hardly at all - just what I wanted! I have a sense that if I tried to go much farther with this one that it would start to look like an over-spray (I haven't tried it), but I think it works well to this extent.
I finished it off with some grime washes and Bragdon powders:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bLVL5d9Et2c/SP6-AUvih6I/AAAAAAAADbY/ZzQvj8G20dc/s800/DSCN7927.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cpu3XhJLRn8/SP6-bbajcRI/AAAAAAAADbY/r3O4ZqZN2Mg/s800/DSCN7930.JPG)
I think I overdid the grime a bit and will probably do the next one as more of a pure fade with very light grime. Curiously, the prototype boxes have almost no rust. This blue must be an excellent rust inhibitor while having lousy UV tolerance.
Ok, one more. I really like the Evans double-plug cars: CHTT prototype
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=225330 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=225330)
Atlas model:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ViJnI4JaD1s/SP6-vPwUj-I/AAAAAAAADbY/IfW3L7wE9Hw/s800/DSCN7975.JPG)
This was mostly a test of paint-outs. After a few coats of white/flat to seal the graf decals, I masked the paint-outs and proceeded to fully fade the remainder. Now I'm running out of decent graffiti decals...
Thanks for looking - comments always welcome,
Gary
P.S. Now I'm getting up the nerve to tackle my GT auto-rack... ;D
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It's a very nice effect but the car ends up a bit washed out. Maybe it's the lighting, but I think you could get the seams and rivets to stand out a little more.
Just a thought, looks great.
Jason
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Yea, I think the grime wash went a bit too far on this car. Next time I'll just try a very dilute raw umber to get a little definition on the seams but hopefully not obscure the pale blue too much (I am pretty happy with the initial fade though). I'll keep this one in service - just not one of my favorites.
-gfh
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Wow....nice work Gary - I'm going to have to look into this technique when my exams are over!
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Really cool stuff Gary. Fading is still one of those things I haven't gotten the hang of yet so this is really usefull. :)
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Thanks guys. If I may, what are you studying James? Good luck with the exams!
-gfh
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Thanks guys. If I may, what are you studying James? Good luck with the exams!
-gfh
Thanks mate! I'm doing my Masters (Pavement Engineering) part time and working full time. This is my last engineering subject (insitu stabilisation) with only two business subjects and a thesis to go ::)
Exam is on the 11/4 and I can't wait to get the work bench back up and running (just moved) and restart my SD70M Demonstrator projects :D
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Looks great!! I have gotten a bunch of supplies to try it for myself. Great work and thanks for all the helpful tips.
Also door scraps like in the proto would look great on that FGE.
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Ok... i tried this and have got nothing but failure to show for it. I get patchy and gainular appearance... not the smooth finish you have. at first I thought it was the paint being to thick, but when thinned it will settle between ribs and ruins the effect... any suggestions?
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Ok... i tried this and have got nothing but failure to show for it. I get patchy and gainular appearance... not the smooth finish you have. at first I thought it was the paint being to thick, but when thinned it will settle between ribs and ruins the effect... any suggestions?
Thin around 40-50%
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Daniel, Sorry to hear about your travails - hope I didn't cause you to ruin anything of genuine value. :-\ As Tom notes, the mix should be quite thin. Here's a quick overview of my recipe, which is very approximate:
50% Microscale Flat, 40% WW fluid as thinner, 10% zinc-based white (a "dollop"). I have also taken to adding half a dollop of transparent yellow, orange or red to the mix to keep the colors a bit warmer, but this is to taste. (A few more tinted examples are almost ready to post.)
I'm applying it at low pressure (16-18 psi) and low flow with a Badger 150 and the widest needle. I pull back just enough that I can see the spray but not more. Each coat is almost imperceptible, but after several passes you'll notice the effect. I could probably be more aggressive with individual passes to speed things up, but that probably requires more care than I can muster. If this sound like what you're doing already, post or pm me a photo and I'd be happy to take a look.
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. James - it must now be after 11/4 Down Under. Hope the exams went well and that you can now get back to some real (i.e. train) work! ;)
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I got some progress today. I ended up killing an LBF car, but nothing I was attached to. I was using the matte medium instead of acrylic flat. I'll change the formula tomorrow. I had to run the thing at 50 PSI to get the even coat. I'm not sure what I am doing wrong
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Wow, I like this thread! I'm going to the store now, to buy me some white... I was just thinking of trying something like this with Gouache, think it'll work as well? Gouache is a n oil type paint that can be thinned with water, and it works better for rust streaking, then plain water acrylics...
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Daniel - I gave up on the matte medium too. It's a bit thick, though it can still work fine if its thinned enough with the WW fluid. But a regular acrylic flat seems better suited to this application, and it makes a great base coat for later washes.
Josh - I've never used gouache (rhymes with 'squash' according to Wikipedia) myself though I know many swear by it. For washes, I have had very good luck with regular acrylic colors thinned with windshield washer fluid, as I learned from Rich Yourstone's article. On a matte surface this wash flows like oil - a real pleasure to work with!
-Gary
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Gouache is a n oil type paint that can be thinned with water, and it works better for rust streaking, then plain water acrylics...
Gouache is most definitely not oil-based. It is a water-based artists paint that has very rich, vibrant color and a dead flat finish. It differs from watercolor or acrylic in that it is very dense and opaque. It may not be suitable for airbrushing because of its relatively coarse pigments.
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P.S. James - it must now be after 11/4 Down Under. Hope the exams went well and that you can now get back to some real (i.e. train) work! ;)
Indeed Gary! Exam is all done and went as well as can be expected, so I'm not expecting any problems there.
Starting to clear the desk and set up the study/train room in the new house and get back into the real work ;D
Won't be able to do much this weekend though, off to a wedding in Bundaberg.... but already thinking about containers to detail, boxcars to fade and where I'm going to be able to get some of this paint from in Oz.
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Gouache is a n oil type paint that can be thinned with water, and it works better for rust streaking, then plain water acrylics...
Gouache is most definitely not oil-based. It is a water-based artists paint that has very rich, vibrant color and a dead flat finish. It differs from watercolor or acrylic in that it is very dense and opaque. It may not be suitable for airbrushing because of its relatively coarse pigments.
Never had anyone tell me it was very dense & opaque! It most certainly is not. In any case, I'll stick to the gouache for brush only, and buy a few tubes of the stuff mentioned here.
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OK I've ordered some M. Graham paints from dickblick.com, I'm looking forward to trying them! ;)
Ed
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Here's a quickie. I was never happy with the mustard yellow color on the latest release of Deluxe's MSC containers, since most of the prototypes are much more beige, so I thought I would see of I could tweak the color in that direction. Here is a proto shot of one of the more yellow cans I could find:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=482534 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=482534)
and the models (finished one on top, stock on the bottom):
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_RyITWkzuSU/SSh9rLTx83I/AAAAAAAADbY/9nWhRtBUyR0/s800/DSCN8039.JPG)
For this one I added some transparent red to the fade coat, then hit it with a wash of raw sienna lightened with some titanium (opaque) white. Definitely more believable than the stock color at least -- especially in person... ;)
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Nicely done Gary - I agree it is a more believable MSC colour than the original.
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So, I'm back re-reading this article. I think I'll try it out after next weekend. I'll see what I can accomplish on some boxcars.
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Here is my attempt using the M. Grahams on a couple of HO containers. Instead of matte medium or Micro-Flat, I used a thinned (50%) mix of Model Master Clear Flat with the acrylics. It probably doesn't matter too much which clear coat you use, but you want to use enough so that the fade layers won't rub off to easily over time (since artist acrylics don't really bond to plastic too well, they tend to wear off, at least in my experience).
The fading is really more evident in-person than thru the camera lens (I'm still figuring the right exposure :-[). I was trying for a moderate level of fade. Next time I'll use more of the acrylics, I was afraid of overdoing it so I made the mixes really thin -- so thin that it took a lot of coats to build up to what you see here.
Thanks Gary, for all your efforts in documenting and presenting your techniques! :)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture018a.jpg)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture021a.jpg)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture024a.jpg)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture027a.jpg)
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Those look great Ed! I agree that pretty much any clear flat finish is probably fine for mixing with these acrylics, but I definitely use more thinned clear coat than acrylic, by volume. And I also use lots of thin coats but it is worth experimenting with a richer mix. I also agree that the effect is hard to photograph -- but your results show up clearly.
It looks like you have some nicely discolored lettering on these cans. Did you use some of the transparent oxides in the mix, or was that a subsequent wash?
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. You're making me want to get back down to the paint booth. The good news is, I now have almost 2 weeks off. :) :) :) Happy Holidays!
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These look great Gary, thanks for posting.
Dave
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Hi Gary,
I'm new to this forum. Thanks for posting your method. Here is my first try using similar products (Liquitex Soft Body Transparent White 15%, Liquitex Matte Medium 40%, WW Fluid 45%). Sorry for the blurry pics, I should have used a tripod.
Mike
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Jlim55gBsdg/SV4w7M8xHxI/AAAAAAAAABY/XNBL18VuNnA/s400/CN528524.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4uRCGKiRs4eVwUY_ZoTGMw?feat=embedwebsite)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Jlim55gBsdg/SV4w8q0jEcI/AAAAAAAAAB0/cYiWt9T6dNE/s400/CN528524Faded.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uq0ANcBdIzsBzo5bfCyoMA?feat=embedwebsite)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Jlim55gBsdg/SV7Jx5lYeyI/AAAAAAAAADc/EfUnyEuIxNs/s400/CN528524Weathered.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jBeOUBMkEsRPH8-xXT4WTA?feat=embedwebsite)
After a little Bragdon powder.
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Just noticed this post Mike. Thanks for sharing your work, and welcome to Railwire! Looks like you have a good brew with the Liquitex. How many coats did you use to get that effect? It looks like there might be a very slight gradient in the fade near the top, but overall a great improvement. :)
Cheers,
Gary
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what is liquidex?
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John - it's a brand of art supplies, including acrylic tube paints (http://www.liquitex.com/Products/paintmedvisartcol.cfm). Funny you should ask because it reminded me that I started my fade tests with Liquitex transparent white (see my initial post - how soon I forget...) but stopped because the fine print said it contains lead.
Mike - you should check the label on yours. I can't remember if I used the "soft body" line or another grade, and I don't know if they all contain lead.
-Gary
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Isn't the lead needed to meet NMRA weighting specs?
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I ordered 4 tubes (the three transparent oxides and the white) through dickblick.com last week for what I thought was a good price...totaled about $22US... but they want another $23US to ship to Australia via USPS with a 2-3 delivery window! Not sure I want to pay $11US ($15AU) each for these...
I think I'll have to wait until later in January when shops here are supposed to get some stock!
My fading experimentation may have to wait awhile, which mightn't be a bad thing considering what else is on the workbench :-)
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Hi James. I don't know about other sources for the oxides, but most acrylic paint companies offer a zinc-based white, as opposed to a titanium white. I think all zinc-based whites are similarly transparent, so if another brand is available, you might want to go for it.
I don't want to stand in the way of a new SD70M hitting the rails though... if I recall your to-do list correctly. ;)
Cheers,
Gary
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I don't want to stand in the way of a new SD70M hitting the rails though... if I recall your to-do list correctly. ;)
Well, that'll be the plan now Gary ;D
I've got an assignment due tomorrow that unfortunately has chewed up all of the last week, but it'll be on to the SD70Ms, some MTL trailers that need decals and some DeLuxe gear after that.
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Ran a test fade with Floquil antique white thinned with ~85% air brush thinner.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/jbaakko/Model%20Railroad%20Tips/evergreen20s_01.jpg)
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Looks good Josh. I'm always amazed at how bold the un-faded green looks on those containers -- like the Emerald City :)
I wonder if the Floquil is transparent like the zinc white?
I've also tried the mix of Model Master Sand & Light Gray, which seems to work for light-to-medium fading.
Ed
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That does look really good Josh. I've never tried spraying solvents (at least not in recent memory), but I might give it a try. Now all you need is a very light wash of grime, and a bit of rust on the corner posts and you'll be golden:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=467551 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=467551)
(It's curious to see how many shades of green these containers come in...)
I haven't done any painting/weathering for a few months now due to basement renovations, but I'm itching to get back to it. Coincidentally, I just picked up a pair of Evergreen containers too. :D
-Gary
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Yeah, this was just a start to the weathering of containers. Maybe I'll shoot the 2nd 20' in that photo with a darker color to look more like that prototype shown above.
In any case, the Floquil worked well, maybe not as transparent as the Zinc white, which I'll try once my new airbrush gets in.
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Well it's been a while, but I've gotten back to the paint booth and have a few more results to share. No new techniques here, just the zinc white fade coat (supplemented with the transparent orange for the blue fades), acrylic washes and some rust treatments. In honor of the 4th of July (not too long ago...) here are some red, white & blue containers:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wpCtG1UDBuA/SmQNSO-v-vI/AAAAAAAADbY/ybSNLqEVsNs/s800/DSCN9462.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rbnZXCuDXCY/SmQNdVn7iQI/AAAAAAAADbY/rJLSGPK1oYw/s800/DSCN9461.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Rmrf4fu0C8k/SmQM6L_b6zI/AAAAAAAADbY/tYEK-iM8jIw/s800/DSCN9465.JPG)
The red & white cans above are pretty new and only lightly faded (the white not at all, actually) but I also wanted to show how much difference it can make finishing the door hardware with silver and black decal stripes. To me now, they kind of look naked without it.
Here is a more heavily faded red can:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--CNW-77RUkE/SmQNM_kJ-hI/AAAAAAAADbY/j_-7pme3jdk/s800/DSCN9464.JPG)
and a lightly faded blue:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vferg_2R7Vs/SmQN4fBIWsI/AAAAAAAADbY/swxf2IZzLxA/s800/DSCN9458.JPG)
I'm especially happy with how this last one turned out.
-Gary
P.S. I took these shots under my new basement lights: 5000K daylight flourescents with no additional spot lighting. Very little additional software processing was necessary, so I'm pretty happy about that. A slightly better camera would still be nice though...
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The red & white cans above are pretty new and only lightly faded (the white not at all, actually) but I also wanted to show how much difference it can make finishing the door hardware with silver and black decal stripes. To me now, they kind of look naked without it.
Yeah, once you go there, there's no going back. And you notice it on every container and trailer model you see....
Which is why it's easy to say this bunch look exceptional Gary. I love the depth you've managed to obtain on the Swift container, especially on the door. The extra decals are a nice touch on the 53'ers, are they from the Microscale detailing set?
Are you using decals for the locking bars on the doors too?
The lights are looking good too!
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Yeah, once you go there, there's no going back. And you notice it on every container and trailer model you see....
Which is why it's easy to say this bunch look exceptional Gary. I love the depth you've managed to obtain on the Swift container, especially on the door. The extra decals are a nice touch on the 53'ers, are they from the Microscale detailing set?
Are you using decals for the locking bars on the doors too?
The lights are looking good too!
Thanks James. Of course you are the one who showed me the true path to finishing the door hardware. :) Here is a rundown on the Microscale decals I used on these:
Customs seals: HO 1" black stripes (MS 91112)
Locking rods: HO 2" silver stripes (MS 91114)
Rod handles & misc conspicuity stripes: HO 1" silver stripes (MS 91114)
Warning labels & placard holders: N trailer data set (MS 60-852)
I was really pleased with the Swift can too, especially how much 'pop' the door treatment adds - once you're trained to notice it. ;)
Cheers,
Gary
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A couple of generic questions:
1) What do you use for windshield washing fluid and is it all the same? Do you just get it from any auto shop?
2) Where's a good source for Bragdon powders?
James' new repeat: "must resist urge to work on containers. Focus on the SD70Ms."
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Gary,
Nice cans!
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James:
Bragdon powders can be ordered direct from Bragdon Enterprises (http://www.bragdonent.com/weather.htm). I found at least one reference on the web to a fellow (bloke?) in Australia who ordered them direct, so they will ship abroad. They offer a number of sets and individual colors. The ones I use most often are Weathered Brown, Dust Bowl Brown, Dark Rust, and Soot.
The active ingredient in the cheap windshield washer fluid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_washer_fluid) is (poisonous) methyl alcohol. If this is not available to you, you can make a home brew (http://www.floras-hideout.com/recipes/recipes.php?page=recipes&data=t-z/Windshield_Washer_Fluid) from isopropyl alcohol (though I vaguely recall hearing that isopropyl is also not available in Au?). The main trait of these solvents is good flow properties, so it's worth some effort to come up with something equivalent.
BTW, what's the SD70 project you're working on? A flared unit with std. cab? Don't let me stop you from that!
Thanks Jan!
Best,
Gary
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Yeah, once you go there, there's no going back. And you notice it on every container and trailer model you see....
Which is why it's easy to say this bunch look exceptional Gary. I love the depth you've managed to obtain on the Swift container, especially on the door. The extra decals are a nice touch on the 53'ers, are they from the Microscale detailing set?
Are you using decals for the locking bars on the doors too?
The lights are looking good too!
Thanks James. Of course you are the one who showed me the true path to finishing the door hardware. :) Here is a rundown on the Microscale decals I used on these:
Customs seals: HO 1" black stripes (MS 91112)
Locking rods: HO 2" silver stripes (MS 91114)
Rod handles & misc conspicuity stripes: HO 1" silver stripes (MS 91114)
Warning labels & placard holders: N trailer data set (MS 60-852)
I was really pleased with the Swift can too, especially how much 'pop' the door treatment adds - once you're trained to notice it. ;)
Cheers,
Gary
Thats neat that you used decals, I have never considered doing that one mine.
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Thats neat that you used decals, I have never considered doing that one mine.
Hmm, I thought in HO these items were already painted... If not I would guess the absence stands out even more. Give this a try! :)
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James:
Bragdon powders can be ordered direct from Bragdon Enterprises (http://www.bragdonent.com/weather.htm). I found at least one reference on the web to a fellow (bloke?) in Australia who ordered them direct, so they will ship abroad. They offer a number of sets and individual colors. The ones I use most often are Weathered Brown, Dust Bowl Brown, Dark Rust, and Soot.
The active ingredient in the cheap windshield washer fluid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_washer_fluid) is (poisonous) methyl alcohol. If this is not available to you, you can make a home brew (http://www.floras-hideout.com/recipes/recipes.php?page=recipes&data=t-z/Windshield_Washer_Fluid) from isopropyl alcohol (though I vaguely recall hearing that isopropyl is also not available in Au?). The main trait of these solvents is good flow properties, so it's worth some effort to come up with something equivalent.
Best,
Gary
Bringing back an old, but great topic of Gary's (hopefully he has some more photos to show us ;) )....
I've now got my hands on some Bragdon powders - they do export to Oz.
I've been struggling to pick up an equivalent WW fluid, though on the weekend I picked up a version that (a) listed the ingredients and (b) contained Diethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether (112-34-5) and Isopropopyl Alcohol (67-63-0) that I am hoping will do the same job as Methyl Alcohol (which seems nearly impossible to find here). It does seem that this version is more popular now - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_washer_fluid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_washer_fluid) but I don't know if it will have the same flow properties that we are looking for.... Has anyone tried an ethanol version of WW in this application as a thinner?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycol_ethers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycol_ethers)
I've tested a small sample of it on a painted model and it doesn't seem to have effected the paint like IPA does
Gary, with your grime washes, are you spraying them or using a brush?
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Hi James. I have not tried that form of fluid but as long as it doesn't attack or cloud the paint, you should be good to go. You also need to make sure that the surface you're applying the wash to is dead flat (i.e. matte), otherwise you'll still have some puddling. (This was emphasized in Rich Yourstone's original weathering article in NSR. I claim no credit for this wash recipe.)
By way of clarification, when I spray the initial fade coat with the flat finish + zinc white (and sometimes yellow or orange) it is fine to thin with either water or WW fluid. Either form of thinned fade sprays fine (but use lots of light coats, not a few heavy ones). When I apply the grime wash in the next step I use a brush with generally top-down vertical strokes. The exception to this is a heavier wash of under-carriage grime on something like a hopper or tanker, which I spray on.
HTH,
gfh
P.S. I do have a few more examples in the works. :)
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Thanks Gary - will be giving it a go today.
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Thats neat that you used decals, I have never considered doing that one mine.
Hmm, I thought in HO these items were already painted... If not I would guess the absence stands out even more. Give this a try! :)
Only when you buy the expensive containers, if you buy the cheap ones (under $3 each) they're pretty plain.
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Here's another BN test which prompted me to try a variant of the fade recipe. This time I wanted to go for a relatively worn woodchip gon that shows some of the yellowing that is so typical of old BN cars, such as:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=52976 (http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=52976)
First I tweaked the fade spray by cutting back on the Microscale Flat and upping the Polly Scale dust (which gives a good flat finish itself) and then added roughly equal dallops of zinc white and transparent oxide yellow. I sprayed several light coats as usual, then gave the model a wash of light grime (thinned raw umber) and applied some Bragdon powder to the underside of the horizontal ribs. I then applied another wash, this time ~1 part raw umber, ~2 parts zinc white, and ~3 parts transparent yellow. (This is the first time I have tried the transparent colors in a wash.) After applying some basic rusting, here is the result, with a stock model in the background:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_UpgORDnTW4/SzCIvkWwB2I/AAAAAAAADbY/eGjHRv8zmAc/s800/DSCN9195.JPG)
[Trucks, couplers and brakewheel still to come...] The yellowing is not quite as blatant as the prototype, but it is closer than the earlier BN boxcar was.
Cheers,
Gary
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Another WINNER ;)
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Looks great Gary! ;) Might just want to add a bit more powder/umber between the rungs of the end ladder. The colors over the large BN logo are really well done.
Ed
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really nice!
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really nice!
Agreed!
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Thanks. Point well taken about the ladders Ed. In general, I think the ends need a bit more finish work.
So, I was looking at this car some more today under various lighting conditions and I'm rather amazed how different it looks depending on the light. For example, the powder work under the ribs hardly shows up in the photo (strongish head-on lighting) but it really stands out in dimmer and/or shallow-angle lighting (and shallow-angle viewing). In general, the car looks overdone in dim light. Does anyone else notice this effect in their work? (Maybe a good topic for a new thread: when weathering, what lighting conditions do you work under and design your work to?)
-Gary
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what lighting conditions do you work under and design your work to?
Ideal viewing conditions for my work:
(http://maketheirday.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/rose-colored-glasses.jpg)
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Ok so whats the formula at now Gary?! I'm missing some parts here.
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Ah, good question Ian. This thread has been rambling some since I continue to experiment. Here's an executive summary:
* Spray application. I make a batch in a 1 oz Floquil-type jar as follows: fill the jar ~20-30% with Microscale Flat or other water-based flat finish, add about 10% Polly Scale Dust, then add a dollop of Zinc White (a "dollop" is about an 1/8 of a teaspoon) and about the same amount of Transparent Oxide Yellow. Thin with water or washer fluid to make about 3/4 of a jar. Be sure to mix the tube paint in thoroughly. The result should have the consistency of skim milk and the color of butter.
To apply, use several very light coats - you should barely be able to see the spray from the airbrush. I typically give 5-10 swipes per car side, repeat on the other sides, and then repeat the whole process until I have the results I want. With light coats I don't need to wait for them to dry. If possible, it's handy to have a witness sample of the color you're starting with so you can see how the fade is progressing.
* Wash application. With the airbrush, the fade is pretty uniform. With the last woodchip car, I wanted to see if I could get some additional, less uniform, fading, so I tried making a wash using: ~1 part raw umber, 2 parts zinc white and 3 parts transparent yellow, thinned with washer fluid to the consistency of dirty dishwater. This was applied like any grime wash. Since I only have one example of this wash technique, I don't really know how useful it will end up being, but I like it so far.
The proportions in these things are pretty lax. For example, if I'm fading a blue car, I'll use transparent orange instead of yellow to neutralize the blue. With the BN car I was going for some yellowing in particular, so I used more yellow than white in the wash, but I think some yellow is always good to include. With the washes, I think you can start with any grime recipe you like then add some transparent colors as "filler".
The main thing is to be patient and build up the effect in light passes (both the airbrush and wash applications). This will give you control and give the finish a nice depth.
Ok, this may not be the crisp summary you were hoping for, but I hope it helps.
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. Ed, you're way too modest.
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The proportions in these things are pretty lax. For example, if I'm fading a blue car, I'll use transparent orange instead of yellow to neutralize the blue. With the BN car I was going for some yellowing in particular, so I used more yellow than white in the wash, but I think some yellow is always good to include. With the washes, I think you can start with any grime recipe you like then add some transparent colors as "filler".
Gary, what's your reasoning with it being better to include the yellow?
I got my hands on some American WW fluid yesterday and tried a mix of your brew while I had the airbrush out for the SD70Ms (first day in over a week where it hasn't rained here!). Whilst it's possible I've used too much of a white/yellow dollop of paint, it has resulted in some of the white text appearing creamier.... I left out the dust now that I re-read your recipe, but I got the butter colored skim milk mix look.
If I'm shooting for the following Espee woodchip gons, would you still add the yellow?
http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Photos/Woodchip/SP_354401_a.jpg
http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Photos/Woodchip/SP_354920.jpg
http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Woodchip.html (http://shastaroute.railfan.net/Woodchip.html)
I'm thinking I might skip the yellow and include the dust next time.
I can see where it would be beneficial when the yellow is part of the final look, but I think I'd rather avoid creamy text????
Thoughts? I'll see if I can grab some photos tomorrow to illustrate these results.
James.
PS - can't believe I found WW fluid imported from the US..... not complaining though, it seemed to work well. Rainx brand - it contained methanol, so I grabbed it to try.
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Hi James. For what it's worth, I personally find color to be a very mystifying subject... Re the yellow, I was basing that on an impression that yellowing is a "typical" by-product of fading, and that including it will tend to give a warmer result than plain white, especially over a warm color like (SP) brown. But your prototype photos should really provide the ultimate guidance.
That said, I suspect that if your lettering is noticeably yellow after just the fade coat, you are probably using a heavier application than I am. I dug up a photo of my woodchip gon after just the spray fade and this is what it looked like:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tvP0HKLdbqw/Sz98QFU0y6I/AAAAAAAADbY/4qv6NWGuxlQ/s800/DSCN9146.JPG)
Note that there is almost no sign of yellow in the lettering at this stage, but there is visible fading. The more obvious yellowing in the final result came from adding some raw sienna and a lot of transparent yellow to the wash. But I was really trying to emphasize it at that point. You can see a similar effect in the BN boxcar I posted in p.1 of this thread.
I would suggest finding an old scrap SP car and trying the fade on one side with just white and on the other with yellow+white to see what you like (but several very light coats in both cases). Then go over them with washes and see what you like after that. Please post photos if you can.
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. Glad you found the WW fluid. It's sold in gallon jugs here - and that will go a long ways in N scale!
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Well, the subtle change was hard to pick up in the photos, but here's a couple trying to show the creamy white text:
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll3/Costellis/Models%202009/SPWoodchip1.jpg)
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll3/Costellis/Models%202009/SPWoodchip2.jpg)
The smooth sided gon has had a couple of extra passes than the rib sided version.
I do think my dollops of paint were too big though.
I'm going to leave these two as they are for a comparison. I've got a brew on the go now with less white, no yellow and with dust that I tested on a container with good results. Unfortunately rain stopped play before I could move onto the gons, so we'll see what the weekend brings.
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Has anyone ever tried a fade brew using artists acrylics colors such as "unbleached titanium", "parchment", or "antique white"? I don't know offhand if these would be as transparent as the Zinc White.
Ed
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James - those chip hoppers look just right to me for this stage in the process. But I agree that photographing this stuff is tricky and doesn't necessarily show what your eyes see. My experience with pure white on some browns is that it can take on a purplish cast, so you really have to experiment. Here are some old shots from when I first started trying this:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_t_cm3oU0yFU/SMfpYWn6VcI/AAAAAAAAAc0/ix4qFGKjerc/s800/DSCN7710.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_t_cm3oU0yFU/SMfpb5sIKFI/AAAAAAAAAc8/34ledHmnrjk/s800/DSCN7711.JPG)
Both examples are just Zinc White, flat finish and thinner, the first shot shows a light application on the left side, the second shot is a heavier application on the right side. I think the first looks ok, but the second has the hint of purple or blue I was talking about. (But the lettering is nice and white.)
BTW, be careful when you start applying washes to those cars. Make the wash pretty thin to start with because it can go on pretty hard with all that flat fade coat underneath.
Ed - I have not tried those colors, but I'd be curious too. When I was researching this last year I came across some very interesting info on the Dick Blick site:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/m-graham-acrylic-colors/ (http://www.dickblick.com/products/m-graham-acrylic-colors/)
If you scroll down and click on a color, then click "pigment info" you get all kinds of cool stuff about these paints. This is where I first learned about zinc vs. titatnium. (It appears that the M Graham line does not have these specific colors, but if Dick Blick stocks a line that does, they probably have the pigment info for it.)
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By the way, I think I have a new application for the transparent red iron oxide paint. I've been playing with auto-racks and wanted to rust up the roof on an older one. First, here is the inspiration:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=10489 (http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=10489)
and here is the result, with a comparable stock model in the background:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zhJnIk5ZmwY/S0LgP25pCgI/AAAAAAAADbY/pfEMvWcibsA/s800/DSCN9223.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PRsxbcBuBJ8/S0LgP_-PZuI/AAAAAAAADbY/1-sbrCIefEE/s800/DSCN9224.JPG)
To start with, I used a standard fade and wash on the body. To do the rust, I made a thick wash of the red paint to about the consistency of half&half (thick enough not to run down the side of the car when applied to the beveled section of the roof). I then painted it on the roof panels where I wanted the rust to appear, working one panel at a time. Before the paint dried, I mushed a blend of Bragdon Powders into the paint (weathered brown + dark rust). The paint acts as both a binder (the powder adheres much more to the painted portion) and a tint, and the transparency allows a hint of the underlying 'metal' to show through. The rust on my model is not nearly as dark as the prototype, but I think it's promising enough to play with some more (and it seems ok for lighter rusting). I'd like to try adding some opaque burnt umber to the paint, and/or some soot color to the powder mix to make it darker.
I think this technique is useful for cases where you want large, well-defined areas of a pre-painted model rusted, like boxcar roof panels, sections of hopper roofwalks, etc. For most cases, the methods in Tom's book are better.
Comments?
-gfh
P.S. I need to work on my brush control a bit more...
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I did the reverse here - applying a wash of artists silver paint (diluted 50/50 in 91% isopropyl) to the brown roof of this car:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2709/4155822833_72568ac5b9.jpg)
I'd say it worked well.
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Gary,
I have been following this thread with great interest as your results are fantastic. I began using your technique and I have been happy with the results. I mixed transparent white with the orange and yellow and was quite happy- although I admit that I have had a hell of a time getting the oranges and yellows to completely dissolve in the WW fluid and white for some reason, resulting in some "spotting" (though this could be an airbrush issue). Nonetheless I have been pleased with results. More recently I have been working with just the white, and a comment on the "purple-ish" hues on brown boxcars, I agree with the result, but something I had noticed on many brown proto boxcar photos is such a hue, again this could be a lighting issue, but I definitely see it on CN and Central Vermont paper industry boxcars.
I also wanted to add that the technique using weathering powders with a fluid (paint or ww fluid) is a technique Pelle Soerberg (sic?) uses in his book "Done in a day" that I tried on a MT rack, and while it yields results I found it very hard to control as it goes on VERY thick and fast and does not leave much time to adjust despite adding more WW fluid to try and bust it back down, did you have a similar experience?
great modeling, and of course, my best!
Jan
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Ed - I did a little digging on the Blick site and I'm guessing the colors you are referring to are Liquitex brand. Here is the info on Unbleached Titanium:
http://www.dickblick.com/items/00617-4344/#colorpigments (http://www.dickblick.com/items/00617-4344/#colorpigments)
and on Parchment:
http://www.dickblick.com/items/00617-7384/#colorpigments (http://www.dickblick.com/items/00617-7384/#colorpigments)
I didn't find Antique White. The above two both contain titanium white (and lamp black in the former) which will make them fairly opaque. There may be other brands I didn't notice though.
Phillip - that looks like a good way to go when the base color is the body color. It has a nice subtlety.
Jan - I wasn't aware of Pelle's article, but it is a fairly obvious thing to try. If anything, I actually had the opposite problem: the powder did not really go on thick enough for my liking (for this particular car). It's also hard to get much variation in rust coverage within a patch. It's kind of 'on or off' depending on where the liquid is, which is ok for applications like this.
BTW, I'd be curious to see some shots of those bluish cars you referred to.
Cheers,
Gary
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Hi Gary,
Well put about the lack of variation in the powder application, that is a better description than my original note on how it went on, I ended up with a large total application on one end of the rack by moving too fast and treating the wet powder like a paint that could be thinned out quickly and by adding more fluid within minutes.
As for "bluish-purplish" hue to certain boxcars, the majority of the cars I speak of I see on my CP Rail video of the D&H northend, of a particular train near Rouses Point. It seems you see this sort of fade more on boxs from the WC, CV, CN, MMA, and CPAA (maybe due to the paint tones used?)Looking through photos I am not sure that blue/purple was well described by me but here are some examples of that whitish blush fade into some kind of graphite/maroone/purple fade that I was referring with maybe the wrong words:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=988074
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=828224
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1116087
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1635146
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1645836
You think this has something to do with where these boxes typically run? less sun and sandy dust and more snow, cold, moisture?
my best,
Jan
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That blueish tone can be achieved with a light fade coat of Grimy Black.
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Jan, One wonders if the bluish tone relates to how the paint reacts to all the salt thrown down in winter . . . . .
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Geez , this is the fist time in a very long time I have gone into the weathering forum . You guys are cutting edge with this .
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Wow there are some really outstanding results with products I didn't know of or had ever tried. Thanks for the education.
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Wow there are some really outstanding results with products I didn't know of or had ever tried. Thanks for the education.
Thank you Subwayaz. I didn't know about these paints a year ago, until I botched a fade job with regular (thinned) white paint and thought there must be a better way. At times like that, Google is your friend.
My next quest along these lines is to find a decent way to make diesel window gaskets black without making a hash of it. Anyone have a method they like? Paint, Sharpies and decal stripes all have their drawbacks, so I'm looking into black artist pencils - and there are a lot of different types that look promising.
Cheers,
Gary
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Wow there are some really outstanding results with products I didn't know of or had ever tried. Thanks for the education.
Thank you Subwayaz. I didn't know about these paints a year ago, until I botched a fade job with regular (thinned) white paint and thought there must be a better way. At times like that, Google is your friend.
My next quest along these lines is to find a decent way to make diesel window gaskets black without making a hash of it. Anyone have a method they like? Paint, Sharpies and decal stripes all have their drawbacks, so I'm looking into black artist pencils - and there are a lot of different types that look promising.
Cheers,
Gary
Gary I've never done Diesel window Sills but I have done Caboose window sills and I use those really fine/skinny artist brushes. They almost look like an eyelash if you know what I mean. I'll take a picture of one tomorrow and post back here for you.
Hey got to pay it forward some way.
Thanks for sharing again
Glen
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I've been using Aged White for some recent fades and I like the results.
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(http://www.mainlinehobby.com/p_catimages/c0270_414131.jpg?270~414131-fr~FLOQUIL%20POLLY%20S~5.39~5.39~ALL~270-414131%20AGED%20WHITE%201%20OZ.%20BOTTLE%20OF%20POLLY%20SCALE%20PAINT)
How does that compare to PollyScale Dust? Do you mix in any clear flats or other colors?
The PS paints would still be opaque rather than transparent, right?
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(http://www.mainlinehobby.com/p_catimages/c0270_414131.jpg?270~414131-fr~FLOQUIL%20POLLY%20S~5.39~5.39~ALL~270-414131%20AGED%20WHITE%201%20OZ.%20BOTTLE%20OF%20POLLY%20SCALE%20PAINT)
How does that compare to PollyScale Dust? Do you mix in any clear flats or other colors?
The PS paints would still be opaque rather than transparent, right?
Polly Scale Dust looks more like "Frost" ;D
I create a mix of about 50% Reverse Osmosis water to 50% Aged White to get transparency. In Z scale, correctly thinning the paint is much more critical, since the specks that are a result of paint that is too "unthinned" are much more noticeable.
If the paint is thinned, you rely on transparency to achieve the fade. Unthinned, (or not thinned enough), and you have to rely on partial coverage.
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(http://www.mainlinehobby.com/p_catimages/c0270_414131.jpg?270~414131-fr~FLOQUIL%20POLLY%20S~5.39~5.39~ALL~270-414131%20AGED%20WHITE%201%20OZ.%20BOTTLE%20OF%20POLLY%20SCALE%20PAINT)
How does that compare to PollyScale Dust? Do you mix in any clear flats or other colors?
The PS paints would still be opaque rather than transparent, right?
Polly Scale Dust looks more like "Frost" ;D
I create a mix of about 50% Reverse Osmosis water to 50% Aged White to get transparency. In Z scale, correctly thinning the paint is much more critical, since the specks that are a result of paint that is too "unthinned" are much more noticeable.
If the paint is thinned, you rely on transparency to achieve the fade. Unthinned, (or not thinned enough), and you have to rely on partial coverage.
What's the reason for thinning the paint instead of adding color to flat finish? Personally I find it hard to consistantly spray a fine mist, so when you mix the color into a clear base, you get transparent paint that can be sprayed on in wet coats and built up from there, rather than misting it on dry, getting splattering, etc.
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What's the reason for thinning the paint
Thinning PollyScale paints makes them transparent, so you can spray on a coat without worrying about paint speckles.
Think of the extreme: using the paints dry. In this case, they are opaque, so to create a fade, you have to partially cover the surface, so the "factory finish" shows through. This can be fine, but in close up photos, you see a specking of your fade color.
Thinning allows you to spray a lot of paint to totally cover the surface. It doesn't really have anything to do with a fine mist or not. The challenge is to not thin them too much to create "spattering".
I think we are saying the same thing...I say "thin with water" and you say "mix into clear base".
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Another reason to thin the paints is that PS, out of the jar, is too heavy for airbrushing.
Interesting about the Reverse Osmosis water, how critical is that? For acrylics I use the distilled water from the supermarket, is the RO a better choice? I would think that esp. for smaller scales, adding some kind of wetting agent might also help to avoid the speckled look (tho maybe the PS paints already have something like that, I don't know).
On transparency, isn't that also a function of the pigments in the paint? I thought that was why Gary liked the Zinc White artist's paint over the Titanium White.
It would be interesting to try to tint the Aged White with the various oxide colors, complimentary to the colors of the model being faded. Time for me to get out the airbrush .... ;)
Ed
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Neat to see some new ideas to try. I had the same question about RO water. ??? I need to look into that.
I still don't really know what it means for a pigment to be transparent... seems like a bit of an oxymoron.
Fortunately we locals have a few forced days off to experiment, and I might have some Aged White in stock. :)
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Another quick question on the Aged White: do you find that it works better on cars of any particular colors?
Ed
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I'm going to have to Google RO water. I've never heard of it until Mr. Wizard mentioned it.
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Here is my latest Z scale project.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Nw4xaMvyMv0/S3NMqckwEtI/AAAAAAAAZTw/3nhZ9tEMCCw/s800/_DSC2353.jpg)
The bottom hopper has been faded with aged white. If it was not thinned, you would see speckled aged white pieces of paint and it would look as if sprayed with a rattle can.
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Looks good Tom. How many coats do you do to get that? Most of mine have been 10 or more very quick hits (no need to wait between coats).
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dammit, Tom, how do you take such good pics? ;)
(The lettering on those Z scale cars is incredible!)
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dammit, Tom, how do you take such good pics? ;)
Lashedup helped me years ago. I still struggle getting lighting right. But a good 50mm macro lens and the knowledge that the lens works best at f8-f11 is a big part of it.
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(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Nw4xaMvyMv0/S3NMqckwEtI/AAAAAAAAZTw/3nhZ9tEMCCw/s800/_DSC2353.jpg)
Tom,
How did you create the lettering for this hopper? You had asked about the PulsarPro system in another post. I have it and a laser printer, but I haven't been able to print sharp lettering small enough for N scale, let alone Z. I was able to create some exciting lettering over a scanned Mini-Metals truck usning Inkscape, but it lost all resolution in the printing process.
Bill B
South Okaloosa N Scalers
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I think those are factory paint:
http://www.zscalemonster.com/azl/90900/90920.jpg
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I've been using Aged White for some recent fades and I like the results.
I've been experimenting a bit with the Aged White, diluted 50%with distilled water. Here are the results on some HO scale containers:
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/DSCN1599-crop.jpg)
The second container from the bottom is the unfaded factory paint, for comparison. The ones above it and below it are faded with the Aged White, in varying degrees, with less on the bottommost container. The difference between them is more noticeable in person, but as usual my lighting and photography are poor so the pic is a bit washed out. For comparison, the topmost container was faded using the M. Graham Zinc White with some of the oxide mixed in. You can see that it has a bit more of an orange cast to it, and that affects the blue of the factory paint.
Overall I think the Aged White works well, altho at 50% dilution it tends to go on pretty quickly so you have to be careful about making it too strong. A dilution to around 20%-30% would probably give more control. Seems to me that adding orange oxides or other complementary, transparent tones to "cancel" the base color should work well. When used over dark or bold colors such as reds, greens, oxides, etc., it might be a good idea to include some of the base color in the fade mix, in order to reduce any undesirable "frosty" effect.
Ed
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Great example Ed, thanks for posting that. It looks like the aged white is a good color to add to the arsenal.
The orange cast in the top one really does show up in this side by side comparison. I think having a range of fades like this, especially in close proximity, adds a lot of realism.
I wish DI had used this shade on their N scale Senator containers. They used a royal blue shade that's way off:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xkN20F0Tzn4/SSJFHywUjsI/AAAAAAAADhM/N30Va44O0WY/s800/DSCN7995.JPG)
[Pardon my big claw ;D]
-Gary
P.S. I've got a neon orange SD70MAC that will be in dire need of a fade soon. I might give this a try.
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Gary, are those containers just glued together, or are you demonstrating some kind of anti-gravity? ;D ;D ;D
I know what you mean about the DIs --- I notice those "off" colors on some of the DI stuff, like the BNSF MAXIs for example. But DI is hardly the only ones. It really makes me wish that these mfrs would make more of an effort to get correct colors. I also wish they would either offer matched "touch up" colors or (even better maybe) match the colors that PolyScale already makes. And if PolyScale doesn't make a needed color, they could work together to produce it. I've got several variants of "TTX yellow" and they all look different and do not match many models.
Anyways enough of my rant. Have you decided what color(s) to use on the 'neon' SD70MAC? Any kind of complement to the orange, or perhaps an orange-tinted fade brew?
BTW, that DTTX in the pic looks really good -- is that a detailed Walthers car?
Ed
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Gary, are those containers just glued together, or are you demonstrating some kind of anti-gravity? ;D ;D ;D
Magnets! I picked up a bulk pack of tiny rare earth disc magnets from K&J Magnetics (http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10) (I think it was the 1/8" x 1/32", model D201 disk magnets, but I'm away from home so can't check right now) and glued them to the interior floor and ceiling of the container. If you mount them 10 scale feet fore and aft of the container midpoint (with the same pole always facing up) they will auto-align and stay stacked -- and they'll easily separate for re-loading. The 10-foot rule works for 40+' containers (for 20' containers, just use the midpoint). With this spec, any combination of lengths will align correctly in a stack.
Some other DI color foobies are MSC and China Shipping, but mostly they're pretty good. I really hope the new MSC 5-packs come in the "brown mustard" color though, rather than their earlier "harvest gold".
The DTTX is a Walthers set with GMM details. Together they make a really nice model. And thanks for the kind words. :)
-Gary
P.S. Not sure what tint to use on the BNSF fade. Here is the look I'm after though:
http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=19473 (http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=19473)
Any suggestions?
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Hm, that might call for a two-toned fade - one with a green tint in the brew, and another with an orange tint in the brew, with masking as needed. It would be important to keep the applications balanced.
I was just fiddling with the fade brew on an ATSF covered hopper, which is a relatively dark red/brown color, but I wasn't happy with the un-tinted brew because I was getting too much of that "frosty" look. So I added some Poly Scale Mineral Red to the brew, a little at first and then increasing, and applying in thin coats until I got a look that I was happy with. The only caveat is that the tinted fade will also tint the lettering/logo on the car, but in this case it worked out for me since I want to distress the logo anyway.
I don't have a pic at the moment but I will try to post one soon.
Ed
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The only caveat is that the tinted fade will also tint the lettering/logo on the car,
My book talks about getting around this problem. Use the fact that the lettering is usually glossy, so the fade coat won't adhere to it as well as the matte surface of the car, and use a wet brush to remove the paint from the lettering before it fully dries. If you do it at the right time, everything works out nicely in a few strokes.
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I had some correspondence with a modeller named Allen Heimsoth who had been reading this thread. He decided it would be convenient to have the material in a tidier package, so he put it all together into a single PDF file, which is definitely more convenient. I asked him if I could post a link to it here so it is available to others and he agreed, so here it is:
fading_fast.pdf (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2C6MXqoeXl8d0Q5TExDb3FCUk0/edit)
Thanks Allen!
-gfh
P.S. He showed me several very nice examples of his work. He's working on getting those posted as well.
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Hey Gary, Tell Allen thanks a ton! That's a great service. Perhaps he could be persuaded to save other Best of threads as PDF's - then we could put out a book . . . earn John some money . . .
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Hey Gary, Tell Allen thanks a ton! That's a great service. Perhaps he could be persuaded to save other Best of threads as PDF's - then we could put out a book . . . earn John some money . . .
Thanks Philip, more PDF's huh? Let me get use to this forum posting stuff first. ;)
Here are the faded cars that I've tried using Gary's technique.
Faded cars.pdf (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2C6MXqoeXl8MjdiZWFhYjgtOTgyNy00MzU3LTk0NzMtMWFiZGExMWNiYzYw&sort=name&layout=list&num=50) [the pics look grainy, but after you download them, they look better]
Here are some of the same cars after I gave them a dose of weathering.
weathered cars.pdf (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2C6MXqoeXl8Nzk5MWU1ZmUtOTJjMS00N2UwLTg0ZjYtZjQ2YjY4Nzk4ZTM5&sort=name&layout=list&num=50)
I've played a little with weathering some years before, but that was before I seen this fading technique. Like I told Gary, it was the missing part of the puzzle for me.
After applying the fade coat, I used oil paints and powders for the rust on the roofs and sides. Then applied several washes before shooting a coat of flat to seal everything.
I'm still trying to fine tune the methods for myslf....one step at a time. The next batch I'm playing with, I will have the logos & lettering sanded or rubbed thin, then proceed with the final steps.
I was so proud of my stuff, I thought I had finally gotten off the porch with the pups! ;D
That was until I started poking around here on Railwire :-[
All I can say is there is a lot of fine talent here!
Thanks for sharing it!
Allen...
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Welcome aboard Allen! Nice to see these examples posted. I especially like the Rock and BN boxcars. Do you remember what color you painted the door on that BN model?
Hey Gary, Tell Allen thanks a ton!
Sure thing. Thanks a ton Allen!
:)
-Gary
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Gary:
I've been trying to remember, it's been over 5 years ago, but my guess would be Floquil's Oxide Red. I think I just brushed it on at that.
Alien...
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Gary,
I've been reading this thread for a while before becoming a member.
I am about to begin my first test of fading with the M. Graham zinc white. What I would like to know, is there any prep to the car surface before the fade or is the car or container right from the box?
Also, what is the significance of the use of window washer fluid? Can anything be substituted?
Also, any idea how this fade works on a painted and decaled car? I want to try this on 2 of my club's sand hoppers I just painted and decaled, but in my past experiences, anything flat over the shiny decaled surface brings out the decal film.
Thanks for the help,
Dave in Az
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Hi Dave,
Welcome to Railwire! Here is an attempt to answer your questions:
* Since the fade mix includes a healthy dose of flat finish, it makes an excellent first coat for most weathering jobs. You shouldn't need any special preparations beforehand, other than making sure your model is clean. BTW, the flat finish is important for getting good smooth grime washes in subsequent steps.
* Window washer fluid has good flow properties, but since the fade mix is a spray application, that's not crucial. I've had equally good results with distilled water.
* I've used this fade over decalled models quite often and have never had a problem with film showing up. In fact, in one or to cases where I had some mild filming beforehand, the fade diminished it nicely. Of course the key to successful decal work is a good glossy surface to start with.
Here's an example of some graffiti decals that were applied straight way to an Atlas Railbox car, prior to fading/weathering. There is no trace of decal film that I can see.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JatuxsuxzUQ/SM3VEz690kI/AAAAAAAADbY/chuTPQf2wr0/s800/DSCN7714.JPG)
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Gary
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Thanks Gary. Now I guess I have to figure out weather I want to use distilled water or try WW fluid. All I have around the house is bottled water.
Dave
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Has anyone had success with fading a dark color (like black...), while still retaining some degree of shine/gloss (as for the sides of well-maintained passenger equipment or portions of newly shopped steam locomotives)?
MH
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I think Tom has a section on dark colors in his book. Basically one of the gray-black tones, thinned out and applied in light coats. For a bit of gloss, a light overspray of a clear satin is what I would probably try.
Ed
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His book?
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His book?
http://www.weatheringfactory.com/?page_id=185
You can support the Railwire by ordering it through the link here; it should be second from the right at the top of this page: http://therailwire.net/forum/index.php/board,1.0.html
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Hey Gary,
Now that you are unpacked out there in the great white Northwest, I have to ask a favor.
We're up to 9 plus pages of posts, and with Allen's PDF we can get a "permanent" record of your evolving process. My problem is I am too lazy to navigate back and forth between pages to see your various mixing formulas, and the cars/finishes they work best with. ANy chance of getting you to do a summary post with some sort of table?
I'd buy you a beverage at Franklin's in payment, but you'd have a LONG stumble home these days.
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..... to see your various mixing formulas, and the cars/finishes they work best with. ANy chance of getting you to do a summary post with some sort of table?
I'd buy you a beverage at Franklin's in payment, but you'd have a LONG stumble home these days.
Philp, that a great idea!
You can always send him a gift card. ;)
Gary,
If this pans out, keep me informed. It would be an easy job to add it to add it to the existing PDF. Would be happy to help out if I can.
It might be a chance to get your work published as well.
Allen...
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Hi guys. Sure, probably a good idea so I can remember what I did too... Maybe I can do some typing while I'm listing to the Canucks/Bruins game 3 this evening. :) I'd be happy to have this included in Allen's PDF too.
-gfh
P.S. Since I've lived in both Boston and Vancouver now, I can't lose, but I think this is Vancouver's year. If they win, the beer is on me.
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P.S. Since I've lived in both Boston and Vancouver now, I can't lose, but I think this is Vancouver's year. If they win, the beer is on me.
Careful, some of us will travel to collect.... ;D
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Since I'm a bit Type A, and can't wait until Gary does his mixing table - which will be a huge step forward in our hobby IMHO - I started working on my own fading projects this past week. I dug out a Roundhouse 50" KCS boxcar (from the four car set) and started looking around for a suitable fading mix.
Rummaging thorough the paints, I came across this bottle of craft acrylics:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UUPwBEkVmlU/Tf6owVq_C-I/AAAAAAAAAa0/iGEH21AbFUM/s400/DSC01747.JPG)
I'm not really sure what I intended to use it for, but I have had it for years, and used vary little. Going back over this thread, and your discussions on white not really being white when we do a fade, I decided this might be a good option. Plus it feeds my Lee Weldon inspired Cheapskate side. So off to the spray booth I went.
After taking 3 or 4 drops of the paint and diluting it to one full airbrush side jar (1 oz I think) of window washer fluid, I started on this Roudhouse KCS boxcar:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YC_7mkxPRlM/Tf6ou6Zb54I/AAAAAAAAAaw/ucec0-QlS_k/s400/DSC01743.JPG)
9 coats later, I stopped at this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pd9pGvR7YxI/Tf6pXKBs6lI/AAAAAAAAAbA/cWg5u0z3qJo/s400/DSC01746.JPG)
The fade is a tad grainey (suggesting either not a complete dilution, or a bad compressor setting), but I love the color change. Seems to work well too over the reddish brown. Th really good news is that, with about 7.5 oz left in the craft paints, if I do 3 drops to a jar at a time I can fade with this stuff for decades.
So gurus, what's my next step on the path to learning?
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Looking good Philp!
Two things that might have caused the grain, Did you dull the surface first? This will reduce the surface tension on the slick surface.
I've tried some of those acrylics, and while they worked good, I don't think they have as much pigment as the "Artist" tube paints do. The more pigment, the better it flows and sticks to the surface without beading and giving the grainey effect.
These work good for washes and even in this case, once you add some rust [a little or a lot], or even a good coat of grime, things will start to blend together a little bit. The "Grainey" look will tend to "FADE" away a bit.
In this postings, the pics are smaller than in the Weekend update, and you don't notice the grain as much in these photos.
A couple of other things I've found is, when you're working on one car, you tend to notice more details, when you add it to the rest of your herd, the imperfections that you see on this car, isn't as noticeable among the collective.
Your right, a little goes a long way! But the other thing is, if you don't use the entire jar up right away, you will REALLY need to stir it before the next usage.
I'm finishing a caboose right now and it's been a few months since I played with the fades. The tube paints that Gary talks about and uses will really settle tight if not used for awhile. After trying to shake the mix and not getting it all, I made a little stirring propeller for my Dremel and went after it that way. It made a big difference in the application appearance, once I got the stuff off the bottom of the jar.
I mixed up several fades according to Gary's instructions in 1oz jars. I think I faded about 10-12 cars when I first found his brew here on RW and I still have over 1/2oz in each one. So yes, it does go a looooong way. Just keep it stirred.
The color on the KCS car is similar to the color on the Rock Island car I did. I thought the browns and maroons would be hard to fade, weather and rust, but not the case.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B2C6MXqoeXl8MjdiZWFhYjgtOTgyNy00MzU3LTk0NzMtMWFiZGExMWNiYzYw&hl=en_US&authkey=CJC9u_gN (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B2C6MXqoeXl8MjdiZWFhYjgtOTgyNy00MzU3LTk0NzMtMWFiZGExMWNiYzYw&hl=en_US&authkey=CJC9u_gN) I think I put about 6 coats on the Rock Island box, but the change was dramatic.
I used Orange, not white, but it still looks as if you touch it, the oxidized paint will rub off on your fingers.
Next, make up some washes. Use the formula that Gary did. I also made a second batch that was a little bit darker for these darker colored cars.
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Nothing new here, I was just updating a bunch of stale photo links and I realized I never posted the summary that Philip had long ago requested. Since I came across an old summary on p. 5 that is still current, I thought I would just re-post it here for reference:
Here's an executive summary:
* Spray application. I make a batch in a 1 oz Floquil-type jar as follows: fill the jar ~20-30% with Microscale Flat or other water-based flat finish, add about 10% Polly Scale Dust, then add a dollop of Zinc White (a "dollop" is about an 1/8 of a teaspoon) and about the same amount of Transparent Oxide Yellow. Thin with water or washer fluid to make about 3/4 of a jar. Be sure to mix the tube paint in thoroughly. The result should have the consistency of skim milk and the color of butter.
To apply, use several very light coats - you should barely be able to see the spray from the airbrush. I typically give 5-10 swipes per car side, repeat on the other sides, and then repeat the whole process until I have the results I want. With light coats I don't need to wait for them to dry. If possible, it's handy to have a witness sample of the color you're starting with so you can see how the fade is progressing.
* Wash application. With the airbrush, the fade is pretty uniform. With the last woodchip car, I wanted to see if I could get some additional, less uniform, fading, so I tried making a wash using: ~1 part raw umber, 2 parts zinc white and 3 parts transparent yellow, thinned with washer fluid to the consistency of dirty dishwater. This was applied like any grime wash. Since I only have one example of this wash technique, I don't really know how useful it will end up being, but I like it so far.
The proportions in these things are pretty lax. For example, if I'm fading a blue car, I'll use transparent orange instead of yellow to neutralize the blue. With the BN car I was going for some yellowing in particular, so I used more yellow than white in the wash, but I think some yellow is always good to include. With the washes, I think you can start with any grime recipe you like then add some transparent colors as "filler".
The main thing is to be patient and build up the effect in light passes (both the airbrush and wash applications). This will give you control and give the finish a nice depth.
Ok, this may not be the crisp summary you were hoping for, but I hope it helps.
Cheers,
Gary
P.S. Philip, that KCS car will be fine. In the future, I would try thinning the paint more, but for this one you should move on to the grime wash. I would be tempted to add some oxide orange to the wash to go for something like this:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=825901 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=825901)
Also, I would slap a few graffiti decals on there, and go for the rust streaks on the door and ribs. :)
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Gary, Philp and all,
I've got the "Executive Summery" added to the Fading article at the end, and have it converted and posted it as well.
Here's the link to the updated article:
Fading Fast... .pdf (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2C6MXqoeXl8d0Q5TExDb3FCUk0/edit)
Gary you might want to update the original link in your posting, Reply #111, so all links match.
Cheers...
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Gold mine of a thread. Downloaded the PDF and was off to AC Moore to find they don't carry M Graham products. Found the transparent red oxide in the Golden line. Others we will keep hunting.
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I've used the Golden liquid to good effect. I've found zinc white and red oxide so far.
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I am looking forward to trying this line (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow) of high-flow Golden colours. They have a number of transparent colours, but no zinc white, specifically. The transparent grey looks interesting though. See also this thread (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34388.0).
-gfh
I can't believe this thread is 7 years old...
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After taking 3 or 4 drops of the paint and diluting it to one full airbrush side jar (1 oz I think) of window washer fluid, I started on this Roudhouse KCS boxcar:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YC_7mkxPRlM/Tf6ou6Zb54I/AAAAAAAAAaw/ucec0-QlS_k/s400/DSC01743.JPG)
9 coats later, I stopped at this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pd9pGvR7YxI/Tf6pXKBs6lI/AAAAAAAAAbA/cWg5u0z3qJo/s400/DSC01746.JPG)
The fade is a tad grainey (suggesting either not a complete dilution, or a bad compressor setting), but I love the color change. Seems to work well too over the reddish brown. Th really good news is that, with about 7.5 oz left in the craft paints, if I do 3 drops to a jar at a time I can fade with this stuff for decades.
So gurus, what's my next step on the path to learning?
I can't believe I still haven't finished this boxcar 4.5 years later!
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I am looking forward to trying this line (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow) of high-flow Golden colours. They have a number of transparent colours, but no zinc white, specifically. The transparent grey looks interesting though. See also this thread (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow).
-gfh
I can't believe this thread is 7 years old...
Gary,
The second link you provide takes us to the same thing as the first. Got a good link? :D
I can't believe I still haven't finished this boxcar 4.5 years later!
Philip,
Hope you at least have a second coupler on it. :lol:
Jon
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I've used http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/fluid (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/fluid) and they work well with some thinning.
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I've used http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/fluid (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/fluid) and they work well with some thinning.
I have a tube of the heavy acrylic, not the high flow. I may be thinning more than others.
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Gary,
The second link you provide takes us to the same thing as the first. Got a good link?
Doh! Fixed it above. Here it is again (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=34388.0).
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Amazing to think this thread is almost 8 years old!
After playing around with high build Acrylics in tubes, I was wonder if this might be a better solution for fade and dirt washes:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/golden-fluid-acrylics/
From the description, the paints are have extremely fine pigments which should work well when reduced. And no fillers that would "glop" up like I had been experiencing before.
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I've used these with success. Zince white and transparent red oxide so far.
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Good to know. Feel free to post some examples. I myself have not had the airbrush out in probably two years now. Someday...
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Reopening this 13 year old thread to post a brief update on materials. I've been on a tank car kick lately and I've always been a bit frustrated with acrylic zinc white for fading black tank cars. It seemed that no matter how careful I was, it would end up looking a bit like snow when viewed from an oblique angle. So I decide to try water mixable oils in their place and the results are quite pleasing. I'm now using Windsor & Newton's line, but there are others as well:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51275535543_b8671a3122_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m83wiD)
The base colour is zinc white as before, but I find it's helpful to add a hint of raw sienna to it to take the edge off the white. (The siennas and umbers are pretty transparent pigments.) You can see the resulting tan mix in the bottle on the right. I thin it with distilled water to about the consistency of whole milk, or a bit thinner, but I don't add matte medium at this point, just water. I then spray the car until I have about the level of fade I'm aiming for. This stuff sprays like a dream and it goes on very smoothly, so I don't need to be nearly as cautious about using numerous light coats, as I was with the acrylic.
The downside is that you can't handle the model until it dries, and that takes a few days. So I'll do a batch of cars and stick them on a closet shelf and come back for them later. Even then, I try not to handle them until I've sprayed them with a matte (acrylic) clear coat. After that, you can continue with any additional weathering steps you like. In the example below, I just used some pigment powders followed by a final matte clear coat (Vallejo Matte Varnish). I think the fade is quite effective (to my eyes, at least), even viewed from an oblique angle:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51275732024_9e5a89fa5d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m84wHf)
-gfh
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Looks good, Gary! What spray settings (PSI) do you prefer for this?
Water-mix oils are based on a linseed oil that is modified to make it water-soluble, but they are still oil paints at heart. As such I'm not sure how well a water-based overcoat will bond or hold up to handling in the long term. I typically will use a lacquer-based overcoat such as Dullcote or Model Master.
Sometimes what I will do to reduce the frosty effect of a zinc white is to mix in a bit of the car's base color, tho if a car has white lettering or graphics then the tint of the color can show up. In that case I rub the color off the white areas with the tip of a toothpick.
A hair dryer can be useful to accelerate the drying time, but be careful about getting too close with it.
Ed
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Thanks Ed. (Not nearly as impressive as your code 40 turnout though!)
For the spray I use about 18-20 PSI, which is pretty much what I spray all my stuff at. Interesting point about the acrylic topcoat. I kind of assumed that since the oil paint was water soluble that it would be fine with a water based top coat. So far I haven't noticed any issues, but I'll keep an eye out for any signs of unusual wear as I handle them.
As far as accelerating the dry time, I have so many cars in the pipeline that I have no trouble stashing a bunch of them in the closet for days at a time. It's not at all a rate limiting step in the process (for better or worse).