TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: nickelplate759 on November 13, 2019, 11:14:47 PM
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After some years of gathering bits and bob, I'm starting on a plan to model P&WV USRA heavy 2-8-2 1053 (ex C&NJ). Here's a picture of the real thing.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-131119230748.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13393)
The base is a Kato Mikado - the original run, but upgraded with new drivers and pilot truck and trailing truck (already done).
The tender is a Bachmann USRA "long" tender, modified to mate with the Kato drawbar.
Decals are really HO decals from Great Decals, but I'm going to make do with the smaller sizes of herald and lettering.
It will get DCC (TCS M1 decoder, no sound) with a Keep-Alive.
I'm not going for 100% accuracy here, but some details need to change. Foremost, the pilot. I got an appropriate cast-metal pilot from GHQ, and yesterday I attached it to the pilot deck. Today I looked at it, and, umm, I'm not entirely happy with it.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-131119230908.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13394)
The green box show the problem - the extra metal behind the pilot beam. It will all be painted black of course, but it really shouldn't be so obvious. The assembly is epoxied together, and I don't have a ready source of spares, so I'm debating the following choices:
1. Paint it black and forget about it (and never take a close-up picture like this again!)
2. ever-so-carefully grind the visible parts of the metal away with a cutter in a Dremel tool and pray that I don't screw it up 'cause I don't know where to get replacement parts to start over.
Suggestions?
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If the plastic piece is made from some slippery plastic, the eplxy will not have a strong hold. You should be able to separate the parts fairly easy. Then just peel the remaining epoxy off the parts, modify the metal part, then glue them back together.
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From the picture I think I would fine tooth razor saw from the side then nip from the back and file finish.
Jason
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It looks like you could put the end you're holding with tweezers in a small vise.
If you have a Dremel and a Carbide Burr bit that comes to a pretty sharp point, with magnification, I'd carefully trim away from the outside-in until, with the addition of black paint it will no longer be noticeable.
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You might be able to get most of that using Xuron clippers from the bottom.
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Well, no one is seconding option 1 (essentially, leave well enough alone and try not to think about it), and no one has even suggested my unstated (because it's a little too difficult) but preferred option - build a time machine, go back two days, and trim the metal before I assemble things. I guess I'll grit my teeth and carefully try and trim it enough so that it won't be visible in the finished model.
Tools I have that could be helpful (or disastrous if misapplied):
1. Panavise
2. Dremel with a drill-press stand and a variety of cutters
3. Jeweler's files (many shapes)
4. Jeweler's saw
5. Razor saw
6. Various kinds of nipping tools - small diagonal cutters, Xuron rail cutter
7. Third hand w/alligator clips (that's what's holding the part in the photo)
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I just trimmed down the stock pilot and added foot boards.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VgwUeFYVuT2Vdvb7WdiK3Uayyw2RuJxp0tVVvo7mqLtK8hu8qPZgvb2E4oEoVys2GAPfdr_S8jBrHm2-Ipnw4HXG-c1B1uc8nuwZgC4OE3zh782PyuyhMO7NbEkg_3PAz49oNtyI9xg7cJ8b70NczntUdLUN99Ho2KQZ3Ue_j1hBuLRldxN7JoVwdLEqRFmHX0Y9aJ9umzlFIDKxkEx_NpjeNQWD8myO4DlNyiYoEyIoVioNZzui1OYeIUEmVZsrjCboZ_ttdCASuQIPAx66pLKQqvJ1NOQZ2AYMgVQ2_Y4pUOBzjqaeI7Am68zYdtcD82obLxC74hkfBY4g7-Blq0gVo4xk9y7nHloFpikCtwzl2tcxmwlNymRdF8xPdSmyzBerZWmPmap3LgIbOCZDlkfTQ5ZcoBCnmFrgsGzM0i6gpHMi1m6sIZMsyReClnpnVaBx7NTrw0Zr1yG3cf_-8nwLzCxBgHpPNN_kyOjf52xd49QCgUaPfRhxLPjpZCz9kjthNEDdNwTkGph9LVsPHNVdhbmsMVnssj8K8rRv6GSB_dSOLIzn4-YMie_0dmemMi4APyytqodYcvyv3cwRe-D0k15NQn_jepp7qcgLMVuHn9Xm78ADfoh4jm-QlyqJmQD2Hgp6mZ-eooRZusshHI6Erpe85cQjJdVvTT3IfzeHBKJ7BvHcFQ=w1214-h938-no?.jpg)
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That's clever, and I might try that if I hadn't already chopped up my stock pilot (see my previous note regarding a time machine).
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I vote with Peteski: if you epoxied or CA'd that onto the Kato part, it won't hold that well and you can probably pop it right off and peel off all the glue. Then I'd just hold the thing in my hand and file away with a diamond file (regular files work, but they load up quickly on that soft pewter).
To glue it back on after you fix it... try Walthers Goo. A rubbery adhesive like that bonds well to things like Delrin, and if you let it set up overnight, it gets really strong. I know it's a flexible adhesive, but it won't flex that much after it dries out.
Oh... and I almost forgot.... YAY! A steam project! :)
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There is an old workshop trick for preventing files clogging up when filing soft metals. Rub some regular chalk on the file and reapply as needed. I’ve found it does slow down the clogging quite a good bit.
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I vote with Peteski: if you epoxied or CA'd that onto the Kato part, it won't hold that well and you can probably pop it right off and peel off all the glue. Then I'd just hold the thing in my hand and file away with a diamond file (regular files work, but they load up quickly on that soft pewter).
To glue it back on after you fix it... try Walthers Goo. A rubbery adhesive like that bonds well to things like Delrin, and if you let it set up overnight, it gets really strong. I know it's a flexible adhesive, but it won't flex that much after it dries out.
Oh... and I almost forgot.... YAY! A steam project! :)
I accept that the epoxy may not bond all that well to the plastic, but won't getting it off the metal pilot be a problem?
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If it is 5-minute epoxy, should scrape right off. If you used JB Weld gray epoxy, it might need a bit more elbow grease, but it will come off. You worry too much. ;)
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...You worry too much. ;)
It's a family tradition that I'm proud to uphold!
I ended up trimming the extra metal back in place. Used a razor saw and small diagonal cutters and files.
It's not all removed, but it's inset enought that it doesn't bother me. Pictures when I get further along.
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George,
The important thing is that you achieved your goal. :) Seems that the epoxy held quite well.
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Next problem - it seems I trimmed the pilot beam a little too short (before I trimmed the excess metal in the back - separate problem).
I can extend the beam with a little styrene on both ends, but will need some kind of putty to smooth out the seam between the styrene and the pewter pilot beam. I've never had to putty such dissimilar materials before. Suggestions on what to use?
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Could you please identify and comment on the two engines in the photo?
They seem to be different models.
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Could you please identify and comment on the two engines in the photo?
They seem to be different models.
That seems like a question for @Chris333 .
The models are different, but they both use the same pilot molding (one is modified with brass foot board).
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In the photo on the left is a Kato Mikado with extra details added like the pilot mounted air compressor.
On the right is a kitbashed 2-10-2 using a lengthened Kato Mikado frame and adding the extra driver. The smokebox and pilot are from the Kato Mikado. The rest of the (shortened) body and smoke stack are from a Con Cor USRA 2-10-2.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9wXMaQ56ZtGErUjaA
The "as is" Concor 2-10-2 was total crap and the body was around 3/8" too long because of the driver spacing.
But for the photo both models have a Kato Mikado pilot.
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Well I would have never ID’d the kitbashed engine! I have a Con-Cor 2-10-2 but never have had it out of the box. We still need a decent USRA 2-10-2 Heavy because of the liberties on the CC version. Your model it great!
Charlie Vlk
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To glue it back on after you fix it... try Walthers Goo. A rubbery adhesive like that bonds well to things like Delrin, and if you let it set up overnight, it gets really strong. I know it's a flexible adhesive, but it won't flex that much after it dries out.
I LOVE Walthers Goo! Such a versatile adhesive.
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So -- the pilot beam (and the tender rear beam) needs poling pockets. I figure about .060" (1.5mm) diameter is about right. I could make them with a thin slice of tubing (and a little dishing out with a tiny ball-shaped dremel buff), but I can't find 0.060" styrene tubing. Evergreen is 0.069 - maybe that's close enough? Maybe I should just turn it down (not hard to do)?
It needs to be tubing because there's NO way I'd ever be able to drill a centered hole in a piece of 0.060" rod...
Suggestions please - including other ways to model a poling pocket.
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I see where you're going with this. You want that raised relief around the perimeter of the polling pocket. I applaud you for not just dishing out a cavity right in the beam and being done with it!
Since you're really trying to be precise about this, I'd say .069", at .009" too big, is too much error. I like your idea of turning down some tubing.
You only have to take .005" off, which should be easy if you have an accurate way to turn the rod. If you have a lathe or a mill, the solution is obvious. But otherwise, how about a drill press? It's just styrene. With a little trial-and-error, you can probably get it down to size and not go out of round.
Chucking it in a Dremel would be my last resort. It's really hard to turn anything very true in a Dremel, just holding something against it in your hand. If you can clamp the Dremel in a vise and then hold a file against the spinning tube, that might work.
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I was faced with a similar problem when working on some singled sheathed 'Dominion' boxcars a while ago. I used rod rather than tube; it's not a difficult as you might think. I cut slivers off the rod and glued them to end beams of the car. When completely dry and solid I used a succession of drills to dish out the slivers of rod. If there's not too much other 'stuff' in the way you can use files to dress the rod sliver to improve the starting profile. I used a small drill to mark the center in the sliver, and worked up to whatever size provided the best 'dish'. The drills, in a hand tool, provide good control. I also cut a whole bunch of 'slivers' and used the best matching pair. You'll really need a good vision aid for this!
Geoff
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Another thing to try...
Start with slightly oversize styrene ROD, and chuck the ROD in a Dremel, with just a SHORT piece extending out of the chuck (the shorter the tube sticking out, the less "wobble").
Use abrasive paper (400 grit?) to round the outside of the rod to the contour of the outside of the pocket.
With the rod still in the Dremel, and the Dremel turning at moderate speed, hold an appropriate size ball-end Dremel routing bit IN YOUR OTHER HAND, and gently bring it up to the face of the rod, as well centered as you can. The turning rod will tend to center the tool, and with gentle pressure, you can excavate a shallow pocket.
Once the pocket is centered and started, I actually find it easier to turn off the dremel, and just twist the bit back and forth with my fingers while holding it against the end of the rod.
Then, slice the pocket off the end of the rod with a razor blade (a razor miter box might help keep your slice thin and true... also, double edge blades are sharper than single edge blades).
I have been using this technique to hollow out N scale headlamp housings that I have turned out of styrene.
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Another thing to try...
Start with slightly oversize styrene ROD, and chuck the ROD in a Dremel, with just a SHORT piece extending out of the chuck (the shorter the tube sticking out, the less "wobble").
Use abrasive paper (400 grit?) to round the outside of the rod to the contour of the outside of the pocket.
With the rod still in the Dremel, and the Dremel turning at moderate speed, hold an appropriate size ball-end Dremel routing bit IN YOUR OTHER HAND, and gently bring it up to the face of the rod, as well centered as you can. The turning rod will tend to center the tool, and with gentle pressure, you can excavate a shallow pocket.
Once the pocket is centered and started, I actually find it easier to turn off the dremel, and just twist the bit back and forth with my fingers while holding it against the end of the rod.
Then, slice the pocket off the end of the rod with a razor blade (a razor miter box might help keep your slice thin and true... also, double edge blades are sharper than single edge blades).
I have been using this technique to hollow out N scale headlamp housings that I have turned out of styrene.
Neat idea - I'll give it a try.
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I've made some progress. I can shape the front of the poling pocket reliably on the end of a 1/16" styrene rod. The trick was to put the 1/16" rod inside some 1/16" ID Brass tubing, then put a small Dremel burr into the tubing so that the tubing held it centered - and turn the burr by hand, not with a motor tool.
I'm a little stumped at how to cut off that pocket off the rod though? I want it about 0.20", and I can easily sand it thinner after it's cut, but even in a NWSL Chopper the cut isn't straight, and the resulting piece is so thin and tiny that sanding it square is difficult. Any suggestions?
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I think your tubing approach was brilliant, and may be the solution to your new problem.
Just slip the rod into a piece of tubing so that just the little .020" sticks out at the end of the brass tubing.
Now you should be able to squarely slice it off with a single-edge razor blade, and the tubing will hold the cut nice and square.
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I think your tubing approach was brilliant, and may be the solution to your new problem.
Just slip the rod into a piece of tubing so that just the little .020" sticks out at the end of the brass tubing.
Now you should be able to squarely slice it off with a single-edge razor blade, and the tubing will hold the cut nice and square.
Max - that worked beautifully! Pictures when I get them on the pilot. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Here's the pilot with poling pockets added. Not great, but good enough to make me happy.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-131219161337.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13836)
Next is to add the handrail above the (Kato original) cut lever, then paint.
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I actually think they look pretty good. The only criticism I have would be that maybe you should try a larger diameter round burr. Those have too much flat space as a "rim" at the outside of the poling pocket. In fact, you could fix them up without even taking them off or redoing them. Just put a larger diameter burr in a pin vise, and gently ream into the pocket to widen the depression out some more.
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Max - I saw that too. I think I hate closeups :)
I'll give it a try.
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Max - I saw that too. I think I hate closeups :)
I'll give it a try.
Heh heh, yeah, they are brutal, ain't they? But I have to admit they have made my modeling better. So at least there is something to be gained from the insult. :)
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I made an attempt to improve the poling pockets, added the front handrail, and went for another closeup. I'm a glutton for punishment.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-171219003425.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13901)
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I think that once painted, the pilot will look perfect.
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I agree. It will look great when it's painted. I would stop worrying about the pockets.
The handrail looks very good, by the way.
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Thanks - the handrail is just Gold Medal Models stanchions and 0.010" phosphor bronze wire (from Tichy, although all such wire looks the same to me). The only tricky part was getting the stanchions straight. Medium ACC gave me enough working time.
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I'm not certain I'm going to try this, but how might one fabricate these steps on either side of the smoke-box front (note the green circle)?
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-221219200550.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13961)
Everything I can think of is something that I think will shear right off the first time I look at it funny. Folding 0.005 brass this small is not something I want to do on this particular model - plus, if I get carried away with details up front then someone is more likely to notice the places where I didn't (such as the fact the that P&WV put the tender ladders on the right, but the Bachmann tender I'm using has it on the left).
I note that Kato cast the suggestion of one such step (the right one) in relief, but it's really shallow and just looks odd. They didn't suggest the left one.
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You could solder a brass pad to a piece of PB wire for support. Then use the wire stivking out to mount it into a drilled hole.
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I wouldn't use .005". Scale be darned, that will just be too fragile. Go with .010. I like Chris's idea about soldering the wire to it and pushing that into a hole and gluing. You could also just file the backside of the bit of brass so a little tang sticks out at the back and you push it into a hole into the smokebox front.
You can do better with some small U channel. You can file the sides to get that tapered side look without having to fold anything. Eileen's Emporium makes some really fine scale channel, like 0.5mm x 1.0mm and other sizes like that, and it is indeed only about .005" thick metal. But in a U channel shape, I'd feel a lot better about it not bending or breaking off.
https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1076&name=brass-u-section-1-0mm-x-0-5mm-x-250mm&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1094 (https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=1076&name=brass-u-section-1-0mm-x-0-5mm-x-250mm&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1094)
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Thanks for the pointer to Eileens Emporium. Their Extreme Products line looks especially interesting.
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I ordered some tiny channel from Eileen's. 1.5 MM (just under 9.5" scale) and 2.0mm (a little over 12.5" scale) wide. Lacking scale drawings, I'll see which one looks best.
@Chris333 - what did you use for handrail stanchions on #3817? I've been using Gold Medal Models etched stanchions, but yours look like either turnings or castings.
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I think those are the handrails off the Concor 2-10-2. That pilot and smoke box are from the Kato mike, but the rest of the body is Concor.
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I ordered some tiny channel from Eileen's. 1.5 MM (just under 9.5" scale) and 2.0mm (a little over 12.5" scale) wide. Lacking scale drawings, I'll see which one looks best.
@Chris333 - what did you use for handrail stanchions on #3817? I've been using Gold Medal Models etched stanchions, but yours look like either turnings or castings.
Sounds good to me. Be aware that it typically takes about 2 weeks for me to receive my orders from Eileen's. They always deliver, and the materials are always correct and well-packed. But it does take a little time to get to the US from England.
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Thinking about it another way, I realize that the headlight is probably about 12" in diameter, so the smokebox step is probably only about 6" wide, but protrudes forward close to 12". So the 2mm channel is almost certainly too big. We'll see.
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Okay, so these were USRA Heavy Mikados built for CNJ. The smokebox face is about 88" in diameter, scaling off one of many on-line drawings of said 2-8-2 that you can find online (or in the Kalmbach steam locomotive Cyclopedia). That same Cyclopedia has a good head-on shot of the front, from which I scaled the width of those steps to be 8.5% of the width of the smokebox front.
8.5% of 88 is 7.5", so an 8" wide step would be a good guess. The photo you have is an angled shot, so it's really hard to compare the width of the step to the headlight.
8" = .050" or 1.27mm
1.5mm stock will be .059" or 9.5" in N Scale, as you say. But don't beat yourself up. You are close.
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Well, my 1.5mm channel arrived, and it's clear that I should have ordered the 1mm channel instead :x
Gonna try again.
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Here's a question - does the headlight lens on the Kato USRA 2-8-2 go into the smokebox+headlight casting from the front (outside) or the back (inside the shell)? I'm trying to get it out and it doesn't want to move, and I don't want to break anything....
[ edit ]
Answer - it goes in from the front.
[ /edit ]
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Prepping tender for DCC. The tender is a Bachmann USRA Long. The circuit board makes DCC easy, including a 6-pin connector that I plan to use, but what I think are the filters (red oval) are in the way of the DCC install I want to do. Any harm in just removing them?
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/1848-200120130728.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14479)
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You are correct, those chokes/coils/inductors are part of the motor's RFI suppression circuit, and the sometimes confuse DCC decoder's motor driver. Best to remove and replace them with just some wire. You can actually leave them where they are and just a$$ a piece of wire parallel with each coil, or unsolder each coil and replace it with a piece of wire.
Few years back I posted inof on another Bachmann tender circuit. While the PC board is smaller, I suspect that the circuitry is very similar on this PC board.
See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=43310.0 (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=43310.0)
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fwiw, I've always just yanked the board entirely.
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fwiw, I've always just yanked the board entirely.
I considered that, but the circuit board is also the suspension for the truck contacts (see picture above).
Did you replace it with something else?
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Long strips of .010" thick phosphor bronze would be better than those PC board mounted truck contacts anyway. Those short things don't have much flex in them, which kind of undermines the whole floating design of axle point pickup trucks.
If you pull the whole board, just screw (or glue) two long PB strips in there, with stranded flexible wires soldered to them, and you can then connect those to your decoder power inputs.
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I have only done this with Bachmann USRA medium tenders, but I always remove the PC board as well. If you remove the two screws on either end, the board will come out. As I recall, the two phosphor bronze strips are not held in place by the PC board, but by clips of some sort on the tender floor. It might be different on the Bachmann USRA long tender though, so take it for what it's worth.
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as you can seen in the photo I posted above, on the board in the USRA long tender the bronze strips are riveted onto the circuit board. That said, I have an idea...
I'm going to see if I can remove only the center portion of the board (between the front and rear bronze strips), keeping both ends. I can then jumper them together on the red and black DCC wires. I would like to keep the 6-pin plug at the front as well (but will only use the 4 center pins) - I need to see if I can solder the DCC leads (orange, grey, blue, white) there and still attach a female plug for the engine.
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If you are going to try to preserve those short stubby bronze strips, I wouldn't go to all the work of cutting the board apart and jumpering the sections together. Just cut out or bypass those choke coils like you originally intended.
Unless you get rid of those short bronze strips entirely and replace them with a long one that is only anchored to the tender floor at the center, there is nothing to be gained. The problem is that those strips are so short, they do not flex. They keep rigid, firm pressure on the "thumbs" that push up inside from the trucks. The axle-point pickup design should allow the wheelsets in the truck to rock up and down on either side independently, while maintaining contact from those bronze strips from above. You need a long strip with some "give" to it in order to make that really work.
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The way this tender interior is laid out makes installing full length bronze strips a little challenging, albeit not impossible. The holes just behind the front bronze strips are where the screw posts for the coal load attach and cannot be obstructed without re-engineering how the tender shell is attached. I'm going to stick with the board that's there for now and see what does or doesn't work. If I have tracking problems I'll redo the contacts. I did discover that one of the four holes where the truck contacts come through the floor was partially obstructed by flash from the floor insulator casting (the floor is metal - the insulator keeps the truck tabs from touch the floor). Easily fixed with a knife.
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Long strips of .010" thick phosphor bronze would be better than those PC board mounted truck contacts anyway. Those short things don't have much flex in them, which kind of undermines the whole floating design of axle point pickup trucks.
If you pull the whole board, just screw (or glue) two long PB strips in there, with stranded flexible wires soldered to them, and you can then connect those to your decoder power inputs.
That's what I did. Works great.
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Back to the smokebox front - my 1.0 mm x 0.5mm channel arrived from Eileens, and I need to make those two steps on the smokebox front.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/1848-221219200550.jpeg)
They're darned tiny - maybe 9" long or so (about 1.4mm). I need to figure out how to shape them and attach them.
I see four steps:
1. File to shape as part of a longer piece of channel.
2. Cut to length
3. Solder or glue to a piece of bronze wire, so the channel sits over the wire and the wire sticks out the back of the step. (this was the suggestion of @Chris333 and I think it's a good one).
4. Drill a hole in the smokebox front, insert the wire, and glue.
I think I know how to do steps 1, 3 & 4. I'm a stumped on step 2 - cut to length. My thinking is to cut it overlong, somehow hold it securely, and file it to length.
I'm afraid it will be too delicate to put in a Panavise, although I will give it a try. Any suggestions?
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I think your suspicion is correct. Cut it longer than you need, then grip it in some fine needlenose pliers (tweezers, if you can't find pliers small enough), and file to the correct length. In fact you could solder it onto a flat piece of brass or something, file it, and then heat up the brass "holder" until the solder lets go and your part falls back off. You might have a little solder to sand or file off, but that should not be too difficult, just tedious.
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It turns out the channel can be successfully cut with an X-acto chisel blade! I've got one step shaped (and one failure -- too short) Pictures when I get them done and on the smokebox.
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Here are four steps. I'll pick the best two and try and mount them.
They are 1mm wide and 1 scale foot (ish) long. Soldered to 0.015" bronze wire for mounting. The wire will be on the bottom when mounted, and hopefully not obvious.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/1848-010220160436.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14714)
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And here are two of them on the smokebox:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/1848-010220233842.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14720)
<phew!>
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Added numberboard and painted graphite
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/14/1848-090220195138.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=14867)
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Really nice solution to that detail !!!
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Opinions please - I often see models, and builder's photos of real engines, where the smokebox is graphited but everything attached to the smokebox is black (i.e. stack, headlight, railings, steps, etc.). This engine is is going to be old and faded - I may even try weathering it a bit (never done that on a steamer before) so do you think I would notice the difference if I paint those attached pieces black, or leaving them graphite close enough?
Oh - the idea for the step details came from @Chris333 and @mmagliaro a couple of pages back. Worked really well!
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next decision - lettering the tender.
I have an old Rail Graphics P&WV steam decal set - but it's HO. There's no N scale set.
I used the herald, even though it's oversize. I think that part's OK.
The dilemma is - do I go with obviously oversize but otherwise correct lettering, or compromise on the font?
I tried it both ways and would like opinions:
The P&WV initials on the tender should have 18" letters, but the closest set on the sheet measures out to about 24".
Here's what it looks like:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/15/1848-220220151722.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=15131)
I also have Microscale alphabet set. The closest size it has is 16" (really close), but the fon't isn't exactly correct. The difference is most apparent in the ampersand.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/15/1848-220220151844.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=15132)
A few notes:
1. the yellows are slightly different. A little weathering should even that out.
2. The letters is off center towards the front of the tender. That's wierd, but that's what P&WV did.
Here's the real thing:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/15/1848-220220152058.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=15133)
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1. I think your steps look terrific
2. Details attached to the smokebox, in my opinion, should be a different color than the graphite smokebox. If you make them the same, they will disappear, especially in N Scale. I would go with a dark gray color, just because black tends to be too jarring and tends to hide all the detail on a part that you would like people to see.
3. On the decals: definitely compromise on the font and use the smaller lettering. The font is still really close, and I think the oversized lettering draws attention to itself as "something wrong".
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Thanks Max.
After a lot of thinking, I have indeed settled on the smaller font. I'm glad I tried it both ways. This morning I even went and posed the tender behind a locomotive, both ways, and took pictures to put alongside the photos of the prototype. The smaller font is less jarring.
I am working myself up to brush paint the smokebox details. I know I can do it, just need to pick a time when I'm up for close work that needs a steady hand. I may leave the the stack alone, 'cause I think it will call attention to any flaws in my brushwork. If I get REALLY rambunctious I supposed I could mask and spray it.
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I've been unable to find a good picture of the rear of a tender. The P&WV Hiline site has a blurry 3/4 rear photo of #1050, but I can't tell what the text is.
<this is a link to https://thepwvhiline.com/PWVHeavyMikes/images/PWV1050_4Web.jpg >
(https://thepwvhiline.com/PWVHeavyMikes/images/PWV1050_4Web.jpg)
It looks like three lines of text. Presumable one line (the larger middle one?) is the road number. I suppose another might have the water capacity (12000 gal).
Anyone have a clear photo or lettering diagram?
George
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I wouldn't paint the stack a different color. It is usually painted with graphite like the rest of the smokebox.
I was thinking only about appliances, stanchions, handrails, that sort of stuff being painted a different color. The only thing I would do on the stack would be to add some "soot" around the opening.
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The "&" in the picture of 1050 looks closer to the Microscale one than to the Rail Graphics. It looks like it has the knob on the end like the MSD, rather than a straight line. Here's a picture of P&WV 919 showing the lettering better.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/37297/thumbnails/P&WV%20919.jpg) (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1375766)
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Interesting build, George.
Following with interest.
Otto K.
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Generally, the back of the tender has:
Water Capacity in Gallons
Coal Capacity in Tons
These were put in the same place on all tenders so workers knew where to look and what they were dealing with.
The third line is probably road number, not sure if it would be top or bottom though. Most roads seemed to put the road number up away from the capacities.
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Thanks - time to go hunting in my old steam loco decals for water and coal capacity lettering.
In this case, I've convinced myself that that middle line is in fact the road number.
I'm going to go with water for the top line (12000 Gal) and coal for the bottom - but I'm not certain how many tons is correct, as the tender had its coal capacity increased at some point. I believe it was built at 16 tons (or maybe 17).
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I've hit a glitch. The Bachmann "long USRA" tender I'm using has 6 pins for a socket to connect DCC to the engine. I need to use 4, so I bought some 4 pin sockets. Although the pin pitch matches, apparently the pins on the tender have a bigger cross-section than the socket (something random and cheap from eBay) can handle. So - anyone know where I can find a socket that is known to work with the Bachmann tender?
I looked on the Bachmann on-line parts page and didn't find anything :(
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Search E-bay for .127mm / .050" pitch 50 pin header connectors, both male and female. I use them all the time and they will fit the Bachmann tenders. Just cut them down to the Number of pins you need...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-Gold-Plated-1-27mm-Pitch-Male-Single-Row-50-Pin-Straight-Pin-Header-Strip/172288953148?hash=item281d38cb3c:g:gOwAAOSwsYpZ-ycL
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Search E-bay for .127mm / .050" pitch 50 pin header connectors, both male and female. I use them all the time and they will fit the Bachmann tenders. Just cut them down to the Number of pins you need...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-Gold-Plated-1-27mm-Pitch-Male-Single-Row-50-Pin-Straight-Pin-Header-Strip/172288953148?hash=item281d38cb3c:g:gOwAAOSwsYpZ-ycL
Hmm - I did that, but even though it's the right pitch it appears that the ones I bought are for smaller pins. They'll plug into each other (I bought male & female), but not onto the Bachmann pins. This is from the same vendor you pointed to - I'll try that, since it's inexpensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-Gold-Plated-1-27mm-Pitch-Single-Row-Straight-50-Pin-Female-Header-Strip/182219080699?hash=item2a6d1a83fb:g:~bcAAOSwH-dZ9Zb5
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Back in 2005 I did the artwork for the P&WV USRA Heavy 2-8-2. It had the regular USRA road tender and I don't think I had a photo of the rear of the tender and had to guess on the lettering there....unless you are lucky photos of the rear of tenders are difficult to find unless there is a good shot of a roundhouse with the engines headed in as usual and not posed reversed. The tender you are using would have 16 Tons of Coal and 12000 Gallons of Water. From your picture I would say:
16 TONS COAL
1050
12000 GALLONS WATER (or maybe without "COAL" and "WATER" on the lines)
Centered on the centerline of the tender with the roadnumber in a larger font.
From what I've seen on the web some engines were painted in Imitation Gold and some in White.
Nice job!!!
Charlie Vlk
[attachimg=1]
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Just for peace of mind...one of the headers I have, plugged into a Bachmann C&O Vanderbilt Tender decoder board.
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Back in 2005 I did the artwork for the P&WV USRA Heavy 2-8-2. ...
If that had gone into production (edit- in N scale) this project would never have happened. I think I'm glad Kato never produced it - I've learned a lot (still learning, for that matter) on this project.
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It did go into production....it was BLI in HO. I was gone from Kato by 2005 and doing my consulting thing.
If it isn’t a “major” road recognized outside the US they wouldn’t touch it.
I don’t know how far into the road name list BLI will go. In HO they hit almost all the USRA Mikado owners.
I haven’t done any work for them for over two years so have no idea what is next.
Charlie Vlk
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What is this HO of which you speak?
and
DOH! I should have remembered that you have done work for BLI as well as Kato.
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Getting close! Still have to add bell, class lights, whistle, handrails from smokebox to pilot and couplers.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/1848-300320112015.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=16123)
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A few notes on the decorating:
Black is Tru Color TCP-171 Weathered Black, and graphite (smokebox and firebox) is Tru Color TCP-008 Graphite. Oversprayed with TCP-017 Flat (clear). The way the Kato castings disassemble meant no masking required at all, but I did hand paint the details on the smokebox front.
Decals are mix of heralds from a Rail Graphics HO set (out of print) by way of Great Decals (greatdecals.com (http://greatdecals.com)), and several Microscale yellow alphabet and steam data sets. Nearly every letter or numeral was individually applied - whew!
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Yeah! Looks very good. I like smokebox color.
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very nicely done!
looking really good...
sincerely
Gary
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Agree with the others! Looks really nice!
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A few more details added to the front. I doctored the lighting and contrast of this photo to show a little more detail. Still need the handrails to the pilot deck.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/1848-010420120112.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=16163)
Blown up to this size, it's impressive how good Kato's die work is.
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Seeing all these pictures of Kato Mikados makes me wish Kato would do another run of them. Such a great engine, mine all run like Swiss watches.
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Nice job Gerorge - that loco look amazing.
But the photo seems to have that "paint by numbers" feel to it. I have noticed that effect in some photos taken by smart phones. Probably something to do with the way they handle JPG compression. Still, it clearly shows all those fine details (at a greatly enlarged size).
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I think it's the way he "doctored" the photo to enhance the contrast.
Can you take a photo without doing any alterations? Get better light on it. With steam locos, which tend
to have a lot of black and a lot of shadows, good lighting is crucial.
But regardless, it looks great!
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Yep, it's an overly compressed cell-phone pick blown up to show the detail. It's icky. Fortunately the model isn't :)
I'll do a better picture when I get the last details on.
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It's cosmetically complete! Still waiting for a socket so I can connect the engine to the decoder in the tender.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/1848-050420234003.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=16320)
Yes it's still a crappy cell-phone picture. Most of the work went into detailing the front end, so that's where I tried to focus the picture.
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Final details were a MT Z-scale coupler up front, and .015" pb wire for the handrails from smokebox to pilot deck. Finer wire would have been more to scale, but I needed strength, and if the wire were too fine it would make some of the other railings look bad by comparison. The wire is not fastened, just held in place by its own strength and springiness. A little paint touch up with a small brush (including the mounting stem for the bell) and it's done. Not shown are the DCC wires from the engine that still need to be connected to the tender.
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This is really a beautiful job!
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Here's a summary of the project.
Original model - 1st-run undec Kato 2-8-2.
Replaced all drivers (including traction tire), pilot and trailing truck.
Replaced tender with Bachmann USRA long tender
Added DCC - TCS M1 and keep-alive in tender.
Modified pilot using a GHQ casting and added poling pockets.
Added smokebox steps and handrails (Gold Medal standoffs as appropriate).
Painted w/Tru Color Weathered Black and Graphite.
Decals - Microscale alphabets, Rail Graphics heralds.
Learned a LOT along the way. Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
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Nice work George! The model looks great and I bet that (with the Keep Alive) it runs great too.
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Finally got the socket for the wiring installed and took her out for a test run. Runs like a (Kato) dream!