TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: Joetrain59 on March 09, 2019, 02:47:25 AM
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I don't find a website for MV Lens Products. Are they still around?
Looking for N scale red lens for D&H caboose end marker light.
Thanks,
Joe D
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website address is
http://www.mvproducts.com/Model-Lenses.html
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I don't find a website for MV Lens Products. Are they still around?
I used to buy them at ModelTrainStuff (M.B. Klein Inc.).
But I stopped buying there since they changed their website as it is impossible to find anything. Their new website is a catastrophe. :facepalm:
You could send them an e-mail, though. IMHO they are always helpful when you contact them via e-mail or through their contact form.
Javier
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Thank you.
Joe D
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I use a lot of MV lenses for my U.P and S.P caboose marker lamps. I found the vast majority of mine online at eBay...for distinctly LESS than I could buy them from the "normal" sources. It's been a while since I've bought any, but you might want to just do an eBay search for 'em. You might be surprised at what you find. :)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5SopB3E55HrNMeGeodT12XQm0hYyaFTSCnuozWgTqr3q28VAEhtIt0MZ-zB38CqgQylWtEjcaBpUnBwSv1N-QmiukUwpFH1HTWBbiL6UxN5mRXXAMM2GBxXekELyVb1M-db9_TmxBKngL7K-6U6Xg5UhR23l5v0hoiqNQEMoHnSvuBrp59veklTZazl8tPuDHkKWEyvm8eLwR2-kNavjEWdh7GxcBDMteCLlnIvssWYKieCU6h1AvJH0bIk5E8HmAvBqnTLaq_Tjj1vwcLsLf_fMFUr3Uiig3OWOlufbMLOQ7EMAopba-aFrUMAhBXP7sSxcQnYeGQh9zOZanXtx1-cfOBeEKqCf8YacE15GmFbrnY4JhublgJVLG4U-eVrO6BiZmKLjRXO6B2aerN-ZjHKgZ4TX8QkHKifUUnQ_TGML5nMghy4T3st4X5LcYxTcDfai7k8kwS-m3ozRbx47b7liSgFYuneNJUalRGiIziSEdG4gyjr93SyfXXxSs7qKUA1k_5cbvNbb8U010L9q7tIeZYCRV1b2n7RbuLtGIMhx0Y37tMHKgnbXABh4D-7oILf6uX5HZjfLAqiGH0dW9EtApE7nxA9s0RCYtUFWvEStHpHqmzfHZTVVGUw8Aj7Z7iT-f4NYHgqreK3AgWHUDpCClJNvCaU=w1000-h1157-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Meq1vbiywgam-_7EbJdiQ0rrYenPryzQT7lw0RmVhjoPdn-IpiAWKNni-XhFaRrbaeYFceJQwYIthL-7MyxQpF_gkAizt8YCCUY8LrgzlyGTgnNQo2urikT_T7cu-sIW8BSHycYbyOuC9sAFsv1o_K97I33lci12j2YuACM4hsIpb1oiOdWZMNWbyxbuTSU0Zx4qF-OFZXD8_Cqhp7okvgAJhh2DGlcY6BhqjF9xHVubj9ajI2Vgt4NVfTvXM5ctcLYcf0GHg0k_3w3A6CdZI3S6C8T9Nm5IkOjHJE717rN21SA0IX9eDw3Gcu801uv-bRJahglBW7Fmdtbn-xJ_oFlKH9ufL1zoDdBErzNpbcdHz1opp4urcqKTiaA86bXgZyvTdwix2vmuoztFLHkfjkILP7q8_i2FIq6xajo4-xWWpks-uJH3NVuwu_lcDMCRq7WBe7WOH522RBmYO28bmK5S4EFe53EgFq8aTi4S7iMyZe6id0QKQHxfNe_cjqJWnahfU1eAXE5zLIL_jjFSKqqEdzQU4Kb_jGSkG-3Lzk7gv89nVCTRssb4rMjD0DV-4SZQixNC4hJ9KFGJSEd_R5U3bLJOK29fi9owoBouEiaZLuFFo_lD6DrzOPXZba0ZFNjvSE440QrDzo4q1srJoQecx67o4Ao=w1000-h1237-no)
As to using MV lenses for marker lamps, when I'm running my freights at shows, I get a lot of comments and questions about how I've managed to put a light inside my marker lamps. Depending on the lighting in the venue the show is being held at, the tiny MV lenses DO make the marker lights look like they're illuminated.
Here's a photo on my layout of Wilhemina Pass, and if you look closely, you can see the MV lenses in the marker lamps on the departing Oxide Red CA-4 caboose...and they look illuminated...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KIZ2uWjh9rZ6dTOwgidHGByaTMSvyshaFhQH0v-OvgSxe7ImPXYy_UM0UeEAAA-xDlw8CPmoHtctGE06YKwBzU5VmELApt5i1VkHVVhtiDfIdiFaDEneXOmFGekh_MC5D2Qxadn4mk9-4Fy9YRrEjMQUA3yGek10ZextJgjWRhK8hN0SbKKaoPjNcgyQkdZ7xBBWvmuC22f8q-p0qA49MsgYW-HLy7oxgwaHyTkoZ3ZSFskzGpcwg07Kir4A2vlhrd026en9UsrUtGYxcvqGSnx5e5xwPFVh3pLYONiavkogko9-r8wDzMUP30XdyXhZ1WLHdOq_OM9s2PLo0A04xmUg6dfAPxY9EDL2CheSAvPEhJ5hVVM9kSG65krZ75G7G12yWAb2gBU9yrfkp8lFQvbIfIrEUybSiftJhcsL6H7YwpnP4MwAVIeB9gBffHSuRgakpC2oT2Z8HY_bF-ympd8nXKjyV0sgPEREyf4-Jv8ymFxF6c3MXRsE8bmammH51pjbE1ariaLJc4FUgJfZQjmY0A2gwMrq_LRcLvQOBQu3uhHygxpMhmh-jFhCbIuXNwTL5xbPKz-GXGxfqaYFQouasPGbfEt7-YPcEfTTy64eEWA31Nq25awg8NjRaWyNR1VzRQWwb3r6bcPS_P9_g43XF5KEU_8=w1366-h896-no)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
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website address is
http://www.mvproducts.com/Model-Lenses.html
Pretty much a useless website!!
They don't list any of their products.
Jon
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I don't find a website for MV Lens Products. Are they still around?
Looking for N scale red lens for D&H caboose end marker light.
Thanks,
Joe D
@Joetrain59 Joe, I did an eBay search using "MV products" as the search parameter, and got over 6 pages of results. Give that a try...
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Thanks, I was about to troll online shops. I'll look at the bay. CV, there is a chart on their website. Forget offhand how I stumbled onto it. But I found I need #701, red lenses, .046". I had some years ago, tried to drill one out as MV says can be done. I didn't have much luck back then. Has anyone actually lit them, esp. for headlights?
Thanks much,
Joe D
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Joe D....Walthers lists several pages of MV lenses. No photos but size and colour listed.
Jim
Modelling the NH down under
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I lit one, once, in a dummy Minitrix F unit, using a 1.5V bulb and a AAA battery. During the day it didn't look that different from the unlit ones, and I didn't run in the dark, so never repeated the experiment.
Most of mine were used in units without headlights (common in the 70s and 80s), so lighting them wasn't a high priority.
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Problem in N scale size lenses is that the mirrored back is aluminum and of course does not allow light to pass.
MV Products has instructions for how to illuminate their lenses in larger scales (where the lens is larger. You partially drill into the lens from the back, (where the light bulb would sit), then place a light bulb behind the lens where the hole is.
You could try this in N scale size lenses, but the hole will have to be tiny (#80?) so not much light will shine through it.
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I think my hole was 0.02", #75(?). With the very small bulb directly behind the lens it did light up, but as I said, wasn't impressive during the day. The lenses do look good unlit, although after 30+ years they also look yellowish, like a tarnished reflector.
Drilling the lens for an F unit isn't that hard. Drilling one for a marker light would probably be a waste of time.
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I think my hole was 0.02", #75(?). With the very small bulb directly behind the lens it did light up, but as I said, wasn't impressive during the day. The lenses do look good unlit, although after 30+ years they also look yellowish, like a tarnished reflector.
Drilling the lens for an F unit isn't that hard. Drilling one for a marker light would probably be a waste of time.
Yes, some of the resin used for the lenses seems to yellow with age. And also many of the more modern headlights have small lenses (close to size to the already-oversize N scale marker lights). IIRC, those 1:1 headlight lenses are 6" diameter.
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I've lit all sizes of MV lenses using a fiber-optic rod inserted into the appropriately-sized hole I've drilled in the back of the lens. The secret is to slightly melt the fiber-optic rod on both ends, but not making a "blob" on the end you insert into the MV lens. A blob on the other end will help gather light from your light source however...not TOO big...just make a "blob" there. Clear epoxy secures the fiber optic into the MV lens, at the same time negating most of the roughness of the drilled hole...which is good.
I'll repost the same photo I used to illustrate MV lenses as marker lamps on cabooses, since the Kato F-Unit leading the opposing train has a machined brass lower headlight housing as well as an MV lens set behind a clear, flat Styrene cover. The light source in this was a super-tiny incandescent 3.5 volt cylindrical bulb, hooked up to a diode matrix. My layout power was DC at the time.
I also lit the headlights on my brass F's and E's using this technique as well as my brass Big Boys, Challengers and FEF's minus the headlight housing clear Styrene cover.
Photo (1) - Repost of previous photo in this thread illustrating the MV lens headlight on the F3 lead unit coming our way:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/B3ZLu7tAQZY8GrDQVI93V-ap-hQyq0-d7zI8wR4fm8GT5W5ModDFSOzohIqgUJ-fnk8QsbwhRu786tkf5c5ZiP-plAPCuee8lbNogQEQkW7ZfOt-Zu687Mi0-8znqBvrXrn1lEe2wzdxFafIaWdF42afeasGrKrzUKAaJ6B01ToQF9oJDSxMwwdbEiWa7EBCc37a2tx2xsKLHzmPG8Rv8r4FbqhAZOd5aJBKOlFNOY_GAhHBkheaDnTJzYH4z3mWnPIT8U1G_kUwjRmBgA-v3oHGNYAAbfkvNGSfEp5twjMIX9o0LLuql6sY_U5Km7GrhBeb5cgMjMLwfbTvKbvcbJFHfJ5AOiqmtRI4HCdbXyKVHaV11apiWfnvNerneLV-eJ_NX-2WOxgm7sV81vuyGVYL6NaGAoTXGn7t0sCGAE7PCTKjLQQx_WHX3wdOSIP-kLfNIW280J_CtaBvSrCir2xWlebxpznVX7sX9agJt_pSgeAxxVcLUXLee8k2yFO3GLKZBOavFstXygQMzx983Vkw6FSnuarouX4-XQPNclL2WYq8NjcMLoS4pJtECeAP16Xbl2BDii_SiZqmeDn5b3yS_9yoCNQUKSeB91MJEGNFn0GyK1E-X7LfgkH9MF9aXtRXKk_fQfrwsH31qPxaiZ71gYZC2rg=w1366-h896-no)
Photo (2) - Brass F7's pulling out from the signal at West Echo after getting the green with empty Livestock Dispatch cars headed for the stock yards in Ogden. Drilled MV lens headlight behind clear Styrene housing cover:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sLwNQaUYBIfwaoTlUaxAnJyOmur6xqUNMUXweyCaGDPqIuNrAjsOAQvO7tOrS9urGVoMboSWMaVKBgZqg526IUcTvPXNE6sLELJ0uhk1mAbgsY3SlMXqIZ1aqM9WzqB7RMJzGnx3JZ8JN-9kfIYEmPJVpGLvAo6qsOh0phgqXMkYLx1_JoKPoV7NZ7FjqmrZcxnnkzi2JVq6pusj9rnSREWDqpLxE4HVSDgzFeCifOormYvVhm6kRHY9_FFhLiuZlNNBI7hqkjr1NcDdJEsbkIHz81P4bktbfQERMQLYLaxfb7eUGOpSTodxcaQqCX0d2z2OZwsJr8P59E_7jitgTG10vCprdi2ACdGj14dMt_bDHHjwpHu2W-GW7aKFIb8G8FsaE673rSx4IWIf-3QsyceQAKhlCDfvFJNSfgU7gJu-9wBYZMF8rGjfqTiiWDXiW-5Mb4AmhWR9DHwhi3s8cE0krEExOrJsrGJPEws1ag-qzRwSMoW0N6zktuxkN76qltWRnvSj8N9Nor37ky_LxiEhn2JdNfOlgtCLTXvqk7NkdAtJUlr14DTAphaqgJU49nm_1x-UgV2O2B-Ci6IShE7iH_rhD_gz5MiWbp5yNnlrhVqsbOZTGQ0dVi_vHoz2Cbv5rgyrHeqm1cI_755aDQM30XwKmVo=w1863-h1238-no)
Photo (3) - Big Boy 4023 posing at West Echo signal for company photographer with drilled and lit MV lens headlight:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Oo6Sghtn2oFIHYVpoYuFgpmrPk-BDtcU1gghPv5oZPPtWX3-1CHhhtczTLXJIu4keUP-Cxlhx1Jjk8SWl7VNWRj83ijWLzDMY-U5GqIHD7dwBqULL4fWsBkOiVmO3sBnXS1HH3qjeHBsv9EOhLwovijTdZ5zJGCP26xKutNk9U5pzbK9ba0ngQqBCVdVJPzMTkJgUQ2pPdyNXbZJ9AxR3MElRQ5pf21JMke1LGRUM9z0c-E1pxx3Utzfm0vfMIEWpa10oIEN-rVQaZ1X7OKF381JXjZYi1sYEgtP1d1mfEuceafhbQSgBRxM-mye1UajJZo8qmFSSQO55DRIyT5_sAJMRmuYk8bG1DloUkRI4wDt7owxS1aFahLviggcFkA7GTLZcA-y41C0vBi7KluN5qEcU1LIhJy3Vb1p14-7YUsTy8VT0xHhKKa2RJTqcqX5EG7XLuZnZm9KQjI1OFXH5FkyAOXVCe9_5l-h7Sy5LIlo2X57GbRnlfG2UQd8bYZknXRsqTaadi_yF_OBRHeMX4dOCrHb1JkiYf1_KBTo9YGN2A3t-RkL9zzqjONTVxOORVT8Lg9oN2DcA8HbG-DEAkCrCYn2jpBbZ8rKIZH8UgjqAl2ls_MjUUos7HK8BoVki7IFatdKPfYMLMRWj0Qhd-8F6FvuESQ=w2560-h1167-no)
Photo (4) - Key brass Big Boy with drilled MV lens headlight - unlit:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X6M_WQFcRy6_aRQfPU7jmd0nTxOGkeHOuLi3NhIZ-58TCjqsDxbfunNz5Pt6rtJxGOmPyDAJtxN8X_tDoIsruvtLq8mUvRNh09oZgtsmKyZTXH-EAySc-anl6KrUAeI8OG5SBH2EUwgoE5J3Ctg_INrc3J204PDhXfBW1pawQOBZpsqzKR-LCcUBXtmZBcMOv8eFC_gyvsDvi4PNw9bZhTS9oHgC1ezWW1TGe3vjxwwU2AmvMGCjsDnyRRG3u06xIXzZd2tuOb-7clbzkriAC-GIXnu9wnPUIrvPs8gapim2kKEE-MG383JR09ClU8Op746LST8aDqDX_9LOzXnyfPGH0rANAQ1l2IqC455l0wJHQlqHFZEKErdXgT4R2epY4aq37AjTPjN7uTufZxLuE2RoX8TBIb7KPlXRSZmMJPhUl0DtBws48-1TOYLW7clOh8fOlNvmean88XdlV-wMxZ1al7SZu4Wax1TRABgFzX4MYPwI3lZQxLkGLtMzVbOIbpdQ_SYANKO95UO5pq3iC9zlFoGkG7AiEcNjzuka0wxMaoDbFfmb30kYTBayxpM0_75iAlo7voL4vG4NyHE_IHjt5EgnvJ4Msyt087WaE8G1GJTfAWt5lCmauOlWIY4ySWfL475VZyjMqMkQzjV9itWiTMSPudM=w1600-h1063-no)
I think they add more to the model when they're unlit, even though I like 'em lit too. Even if you don't light them, I think drilling the holes in the backs gives them "extra dimension" and adds to their realistic looks to represent sealed-beam lights.
The most difficult part of drilling the backs of the MV lenses is creating a properly centered "dimple" which acts as a starter for the drill bit. The second most difficult part is holding the damn things while drilling them. Take it slow, don't apply too much pressure using any holding tools and you'll be okay. However, be prepared to lose some...either to the backs coming off, or when they shoot out of your holding device into the netherworld, never to be seen again.
However, I think the extra work and frustration is worth the results you get.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Bob, are your models HO or N?
Joe D
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Bob, all the lights you show are larger headlights. There you can drill a hole large enough for enough light to shine through (using fiber optic or whatever). But that trick will be a bit tougher if trying to light up one of the dual headlight units used in more modern diesels. Those headlights are quite a bit smaller. Like I said, one can try drilling a #80 hole, and use 0.010" optical fiber, but will that produce enough light to be viable? With the advent of bright white LEDs, I like my headlights bright enough to illuminate the track in front of the locomotive. :)
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Bob, are your models HO or N?
Joe D
Those are N Joe!!!! :o :o :o
Jon
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Bob, are your models HO or N?
Joe D
@Joetrain59 Joe, yup...as has been emphatically stated by @central.vermont , they are N-scale.
It's kinda difficult to tell without seeing a big-ole Microtrains coupler with its dongle hanging down... :)
Thanks very much for the compliment!
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Bob, all the lights you show are larger headlights. There you can drill a hole large enough for enough light to shine through (using fiber optic or whatever). But that trick will be a bit tougher if trying to light up one of the dual headlight units used in more modern diesels. Those headlights are quite a bit smaller. Like I said, one can try drilling a #80 hole, and use 0.010" optical fiber, but will that produce enough light to be viable? With the advent of bright white LEDs, I like my headlights bright enough to illuminate the track in front of the locomotive. :)
@petski Peter, Unfortunately, I didn't have any photos of my brass modern diesels I put the drilled MV lenses in, 'cause I sold all of 'em several years ago. Since I didn't have DCC at the time, I used a single 1.3V incandescent bulb hooked up to a diode matrix for constant lighting and it was plenty bright and exactly the right color. I melted the ends of two appropriate diameter fiber optic strands together where my incandescent light was, with a thin aluminum foil light shield (and heat sink) on top and bottom of the light...the melted-together fiber optic strands entering the light shield and being crimped so that very little light leaks out. I was doing brass models, so I had more room than plastic diesels, but using a properly colored bright LED, I am sure that not having enough light is not going to be a problem.
With the room lights out, the MV lens/fiber optic setup would cast a really great looking "beam" on the track, with sharp shadows on the layout room walls that were huge. Me and the kids really enjoyed the effect, but I never operated the layout in the dark...just fooled around with the lights.
To represent lit headlights in daylight, the MV lens/ fiber optic setup did the job perfectly IMHO with my incandescent bulb as the light source. I don't know why using an LED would change that prescription.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Bob, I guess the unanswered question here is what was the diameter of the hole you drilled and of the fiber optic you used.
If those were diesel locos with dual-beam headlights, then you likely had to use the smallest MV lenses available (which were the same size as the marker lights you use on that caboose).
I do some miniature work myself, and often work with plastic fiber optics, but I have a hard time imagining a small diameter fiber optic strand emitting enough light to "cast a really great looking "beam" on the track, with sharp shadows on the layout room walls that were huge". Really? All that light from a tiny 1.3V bulb shining just a small fraction of its already-minuscule light output though a tiny fiber optic?
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Bob, I guess the unanswered question here is what was the diameter of the hole you drilled and of the fiber optic you used.
If those were diesel locos with dual-beam headlights, then you likely had to use the smallest MV lenses available (which were the same size as the marker lights you use on that caboose).
I do some miniature work myself, and often work with plastic fiber optics, but I have a hard time imagining a small diameter fiber optic strand emitting enough light to "cast a really great looking "beam" on the track, with sharp shadows on the layout room walls that were huge". Really? All that light from a tiny 1.3V bulb shining just a small fraction of its already-minuscule light output though a tiny fiber optic?
I don't have my workbench up. My modern engines are sold. My materials are somewhere (I think). I did this over a decade ago. It's not exactly technical, and yes Peter..."Really"
Just because the small bulbs I have are tiny does not mean their output is tiny. I would suppose that a light source for the same thing today would be a high-output LED...so what I used is beside the point. Doesn't cost much to try it out...and yes, the shadows of the passing buildings, trees and signal bridges on the wall were "huge". I don't have to imagine it, since it was a significant experience for me and my kids because it was so cool.
If ya don't believe me...tough. I did it, and I lived it. Try it yourself to prove me wrong...then you'll have more than merely your assumptions. AND...what possible reason would I have to mislead anyone here?????? HUH??? :trollface:
My first efforts were to form a lens by melting the fiber optic strand over an alcohol flame until it was the right size to cover the hole in the light housing. I didn't like the omni-directional quality of the light...the beams from the top and bottom lenses were going to different places and you could see it with your naked eye in a room with normal lighting. It was much easier to get the MV lenses pointed in somewhat the same direction...but the quantity of light was never an issue, as the subminiature bulbs were very bright, and also long-lasting...I never had one burn out.
Here's a photo of my brass Centennials with just the fiber-optic strand melted lenses in the headlight holes. Brightness isn't the problem here, it's that the beams are not going in the same direction as you can see because the top light is much brighter than the bottom light in this photo...but PLENTY BRIGHT...
Photo (1) - Overland Models Centennials with fiber-optic lenses in the headlights, illuminated with my 1.3V subminiature incandescent cylindrical light-bulb:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rZcZ7FVL8zkMCNJ3gkv8OjhPu0_Mx5ZoXBoeZ1FrgLJrpqeEvmXrq7-XEboxzky1xY8MpKBlekvPOWOoFA4Y4K4P1Rugi0ZIb8UWULK5oEJCViZ2c5ZyUZ-lYmIdJGHhPCCEwuCia978zdgLNK-UAh522I3JC-8YYtaOwsb2t7Tkjs9OHhgDG3CofDsTob9i0r7nEomNkS1-1wUqE4Gp4CpHMfoKUES1tHAhdUKGftKgXu78cr7zTjhXGBsIToqPYALksKvr59ybwTE_U-yLvSBSLpVqisZ3sL_j7MaNSi0X64zck_GJEX0CJaIBplxlow-yv6Wo4hdjW_DjettCGjeCzU-k5nlVla1tKaG-rvfukNJYekn9q8kUZJQHILIoy4YKzwT7M36Heyt5Q7-KkwPkH6SEKkGn8bvGURGej59i6WVP__Vg61GDAHfA9fu3JtGndVK4yZ4CDuO2t7fJGBxAMTO2bt_JWs05gkyLoX6RnXZLVVHh1EJE4GF1sLXrGk98vbav1BZAzkrgnzWc6fQC94MPAIQO52MTnPWJX6V_3AV8hrrlxULX24OruP0DLRiL3TpU_65Bc-DY1GpK1zuGTDUk1ZmFBNO9hICs0A_0zc282Q4JhmGhCR4foYn0nUaosTRS4PWkm15FnNLUqxk4H58ts-U=w1501-h1008-no)
Photo (2) - Overland Models Centennial with fiber-optic lenses in the headlight, no power:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YxWmOtlxK9bgP-2g2H3D5TmxC5EbZyRfkGdvfHVdT8clzVFX_EfnWF-GOn04FWaMpvOQ5qAa5bALXshLfCXOi9b_GStTCrbFFUeiItrc84CFBLfkpXNeiuyt1yhmC8spintme7oHATEpDSXjpRX4HX_oa06Exr7zL8gchQeGuGgGtNWsw4s5y-7Q4xpxOPJ_mBpCHy3G9vLTHySwZx6oGT7Z9Ynis1U6BiAkWyq-2kgXkn_eUOCT1-_KPv-7qoF7KBkymoAIeozjGIeZWeEc9CjQn1yfAJ0U-3qBM9VTq8ULTWacca-saMWeiLoWq9BTWDSMeeRS3gFct5G9n6marrJiNcLDwIS4ATkZc0lBorg8wRNmqu61TU3ubBAXVZewiRRn_3VzhBovtcg1V-wU_skFjF1beXJSY0JbcVEFTtZEA-75ofwJy0TpEVXyrRdq_Eg2z54tYywZADFd2ErEGTJ0AYe4lMrTKLp2IQxUqOpdN5dswruMwq5EUJI3L2bD8gpezifahW7cMtI6zx-Z0huZ4lE4douyzcthsg2i2P1zeVd9rQpE-VGWTSZRqCMZOHwxgAE0rQVfq6_xk2AfJAsWB5yQSL9aRjWhpnCTzg9p_gfA_JpF2jMTDjkqSwlb1OivSan4Ntkik7ruaCLb72JAqSlZwKE=w1600-h1060-no)
Needless to say, with the lights off, plain old MV lenses without being drilled out and lit look much better. But, there's PLENTY of light, as the photo clearly shows.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Well Bob, now you're showing me models with no MV lenses, but just a much thicker mushroomed fiber optic. That I can easily believe will emit the amount of light needed to create shadows in a very dark room. And you don't recall the diameter of the fibers you used in the MV-Lens/hole install? Oh well.
I guess there is no need to keep this going. My mind won't change (and I'm not about to run my own test - way too many projects ion my bench already).
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Bob, I guess the unanswered question here is what was the diameter of the hole you drilled and of the fiber optic you used.
If those were diesel locos with dual-beam headlights, then you likely had to use the smallest MV lenses available (which were the same size as the marker lights you use on that caboose).
I do some miniature work myself, and often work with plastic fiber optics, but I have a hard time imagining a small diameter fiber optic strand emitting enough light to "cast a really great looking "beam" on the track, with sharp shadows on the layout room walls that were huge". Really? All that light from a tiny 1.3V bulb shining just a small fraction of its already-minuscule light output though a tiny fiber optic?
about 8 years ago when I was just getting back into active modeling, I added MV Lenses and NSN details to this Kato U30C, I did not light them.
(http://sopacincg.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/101_0332.jpg)
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I don't use MV lenses -- I went straight for fiber optic.
I use .030 and .020 -
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/6/2753-230518215122.jpeg)
Thanks,
Wolf
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Well Bob, now you're showing me models with no MV lenses, but just a much thicker mushroomed fiber optic. That I can easily believe will emit the amount of light needed to create shadows in a very dark room. And you don't recall the diameter of the fibers you used in the MV-Lens/hole install? Oh well.
I guess there is no need to keep this going. My mind won't change (and I'm not about to run my own test - way too many projects ion my bench already).
Well Peter, I find it interesting that you assume the fiber optic strand I used for the mushroomed ends, was "much thicker"....since nowhere in what I wrote did I state that. I used the same fiber optic strands in all of my MV lens light installs, as well as my non-MV lens light installs. I only have one size on hand because it works for both larger N-scale headlights and small ones.
As for shadows on the wall, they're there...even if your mind hasn't been changed, which makes your opinion totally irrelevant to the facts. :trollface:
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Well Peter, I find it interesting that you assume the fiber optic strand I used for the mushroomed ends, was "much thicker"....since nowhere in what I wrote did I state that. I used the same fiber optic strands in all of my MV lens light installs, as well as my non-MV lens light installs. I only have one size on hand because it works for both larger N-scale headlights and small ones.
As for shadows on the wall, they're there...even if your mind hasn't been changed, which makes your opinion totally irrelevant to the facts. :trollface:
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Bob, we are now getting into a pissin' contest. The photos and descriptions in you previous post indicate that on those particular models you just used fiber optics (mushroomed) without the MV lens. The photo shows that the mushroomed fiber fills the entire headlight opening.
I guess the misunderstanding is due to me thinking that when you were using a fiber optics with the MV lenses, the fiber (and the hole drilled in the lens) was much smaller in diameter than the lens itself (so a large part of that mirrored reflector was still there, and a very thin optical fiber was inserted into that hole. If that was the case then the optical fibers would have to been much smaller diameter than the lens (and than the headlight opening in the shell). But I think that now I'm beginning to see the error in my thinking.
Let me see if I now I understand your installs: You did drill a small hole in the MV lens, then you places a fiber optic (of a diameter about the same as the MV lens) and placed it right against the mirrored part of the MV lens and the hole drilled in it. So the light coming from the end of the optical fiber would mostly shine against the mirrored back, with some small amount passing through the hole, and then out of the MV lens. Did I get that right?
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Bob, we are now getting into a pissin' contest. The photos and descriptions in you previous post indicate that on those particular models you just used fiber optics (mushroomed) without the MV lens. The photo shows that the mushroomed fiber fills the entire headlight opening.
I guess the misunderstanding is due to me thinking that when you were using a fiber optics with the MV lenses, the fiber (and the hole drilled in the lens) was much smaller in diameter than the lens itself (so a large part of that mirrored reflector was still there, and a very thin optical fiber was inserted into that hole. If that was the case then the optical fibers would have to been much smaller diameter than the lens (and than the headlight opening in the shell). But I think that now I'm beginning to see the error in my thinking.
Let me see if I now I understand your installs: You did drill a small hole in the MV lens, then you places a fiber optic (of a diameter about the same as the MV lens) and placed it right against the mirrored part of the MV lens and the hole drilled in it. So the light coming from the end of the optical fiber would mostly shine against the mirrored back, with some small amount passing through the hole, and then out of the MV lens. Did I get that right?
I don't think it's a "pissin'" contest. The problem is twofold (1) You are making assumptions that have no evidence in anything I've written, and (2) I am not providing exact details...aka "measurements" of my drilling and fiber optic installs.
Naturally, you are going to harvest your own experiences to draw conclusions, but...in this case...your experiences are not my experiences.
So, putting away the "pissin'" contest accusation, here are some finer details about what I did, and I'm even going to provide at least two measurements. Maybe they'll help clear things up.
Since the viability of larger MV lens/fiber optic installs is not in question, and since I'm using the same fiber optic strand diameter in ALL of my headlights, I'll say that in my case, the diameter of the fiber optic wasn't a factor in the success of the install. I also used the same light source and electronics to get the voltage to the bulb from DC rails to be both directional (the light goes off when the engine goes backwards) and the lighting is constant ( the light comes on after cranking up the throttle a bit...before the engine starts to move...most of the time).
The diameter of the fiber optic strand I used was .020"
The diameter of the MV lens I used was their smallest, which is .046", or in some instances their second smallest which is .052"
I used a tool steel center punch made from a round bar of tool steel, ground to a sharp point to make the divot in the aluminum back and acts as a "start" for drilling...centering the point if the tool by grinding the punch while spinning in my lathe.
I held the MV lenses in my lathe's 3-jaw self-centering chuck, with a backing plate made from a birch dowel that had been turned to the same diameter as the MV lens. This allowed the wood dowel to compress slightly, and the jaws to hold the MV lens tightly without distorting it very much, or making the aluminum reflector pop off.
I chucked the round tool steel punch in my lathe's tailstock chuck and ran it in so that it punched a divot exactly in the center of the backside of the MV lens...but gently and just enough so that my drill bit wouldn't wander.
I then drilled a .020" hole in the back of the MV lens by turning my lathe on, then running the tailstock in with a fresh #76 bit chucked in the tailstock's chuck so the hole intruded halfway into the dome of the MV lens.
I then cut the tip of a piece of my .020" diameter fiber optic strand with my NWSL Chopper to get a clean cut on the end
Next, I slightly melted the tip, so that the flat tip of the fiber optic goes slightly domed and clear using my laboratory alcohol burner...I want a relatively cool flame for added control.
Then, I check to make sure the newly domed fiber optic strand fits in the hole I've drilled in back of the MV lens...and if it's slightly too big, I'll mic it and enlarge the hole slightly using a pin-vice and an appropriately sized bit so that it's a precision fit...not tight, but not flopping around either. If it's more than "slightly" too big, I'll do the melting step again to get it right.
I cement the fiber optic into the hole by coating it with clear 5 minute epoxy and inserting it into the hole until the dome of the slightly melted fiber optic strand bottoms out on the bottom of the hole.
The .020" fiber optic strand should stand relatively straight up from the back of the MV lens if the hole is drilled properly...if it isn't, then straighten it before the epoxy cures.
After I epoxied the lenses into the holes in the headlights and let it cure, I located where my light source was going to be, trimmed the two strands of fiber optic so that they were nearly the same length, held them with some tweezers so they were touching, and melted that end into a blob...and let it cool.
Those are the important parts of how I did, and will continue to do my MV lens headlights with fiber optic "bulbs" in them.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Thanks for the very thorough explanation Bob. You are correct, you only provided partial info and I was, filling in the unknowns from my own experience. It's now all perfectly clear!
So if you took a 0.046" MV lens (which BTW, would be 7.4" in 1:1 loco, which is close in size for those more modern sealed-beam headlights), and drilled a 0.020" hole in the middle, the reflector ends up being just a ring, 0.013" wide. Not much of a reflector. I guess I would have to duplicate what you did, and judge it for myself if it would be worth the trouble of trying to make the headlight look realistic with the light shut off.
And if you use the 0.020" fiber without the MV lens, then you must be mushrooming it out to around 0.040 to fill the headlight opening, correct?
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Thanks for the very thorough explanation Bob. You are correct, you only provided partial info and I was, filling in the unknowns from my own experience. It's now all perfectly clear!
So if you took a 0.046" MV lens (which BTW, would be 7.4" in 1:1 loco, which is close in size for those more modern sealed-beam headlights), and drilled a 0.020" hole in the middle, the reflector ends up being just a ring, 0.013" wide. Not much of a reflector. I guess I would have to duplicate what you did, and judge it for myself if it would be worth the trouble of trying to make the headlight look realistic with the light shut off.
And if you use the 0.020" fiber without the MV lens, then you must be mushrooming it out to around 0.040 to fill the headlight opening, correct?
Peter, I mushroomed them so they would be an interference fit...whatever that measurement was/is. The size of the headlight holes in both plastic and brass locomotives is not uniform, and the sizes of the brass castings and the cast-on plastic headlights also differ from model to model. Sometimes, the headlight casting is so small, there's no way a scale-sized headlight reflector will fit INSIDE the model headlight's cylinders that represent the outside of the sealed beam housings. I've found that if I taper the front surface of these with a larger, sharp drill bit...the curved backside of the MV lens will nestle down pretty good into this, even if the lens won't actually insert inside the tube...and this looks pretty good. The same with the mushroomed fiber optic strands. If the front edges of the headlight's housing cylinders are left "square"...both the MV lenses and the mushroomed fiber optic fiber noticeably protrude in front of the housing with a space between their backs and the front of the model's headlight housing.
Because of the much narrower band of reflector aluminum left on the small MV lenses rear after drilling as opposed to steam engine headlights, it was especially important to get the hole centered, which is the main reason I used my lathe to do the drilling, since the hole being off-center would be extremely evident with the narrow reflector material exacerbating any off-centeredness. Also, since I have the tools....why not use 'em???
I also found that sometimes, maybe 25% of the time, the aluminum backing material would come off if I took the drilling too fast. The secret was to drill only a few mils, then back the bit out and clean it off, then drill a few more mils...repeating the process until I was completely through the metal backing and into the clear plastic. I never had the metal backing come off after drilling the lenses this way, but sharp bits are essential.
Now...maybe a smaller diameter fiber optic strand would work just as well to conduct light, but be better looking because there would be more reflector left in the MV lens. I never tried it, but I can see the possibility of that being the case. I think a smaller hole would also make the loosening of the metal backing on the MV lenses less likely too.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Again, thanks for the thorough explanation!
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"I've found that if I taper the front surface of these with a larger, sharp drill bit...the curved backside of the MV lens will nestle down pretty good into this, even if the lens won't actually insert inside the tube"
I didn't light mine, but on the locos with small headlights, I did the same thing. That includes most of my older narrow gauge diesels.
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:? Which glue works to attach MV aluminum backing to plastic? Seems like the little buggers eventually drop off.
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:? Which glue works to attach MV aluminum backing to plastic? Seems like the little buggers eventually drop off.
Make sure the back of the lens (aluminum) is clean. I usually wipe it with alcohol and try no tto touch it afterwards. Then either epoxy (5-minute type should work ok), or CA glue should do the trick.
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:? Which glue works to attach MV aluminum backing to plastic? Seems like the little buggers eventually drop off.
I use 5 min. clear epoxy. I don't want to take a chance that the out-gassing that CA sometimes does would cloud the nice, clear lens on the front of the MV lens. Maybe, it wouldn't be a problem...but...maybe it would.
And besides, epoxy is going to keep it glued for-ever, and allows you to get the lens aligned before the epoxy starts setting up.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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I used Seal-All, a hardware store contact cement/gas tank repair that will stick to almost anything. It sticks well to aluminum, and does fine with plastic, as long as you don't use so much that it attacks the plastic. It works on styrene, but if it stays "wet" too long, it will warp thin pieces. I never had any trouble with lenses i n headlights.
The joints didn't look good, but in the early 70s, I managed to glue KD MT-5s (now 1025s) to Con-Cor passenger car trucks with that stuff - and they held for years.