TheRailwire

General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: w neal on October 31, 2015, 04:16:41 PM

Title: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: w neal on October 31, 2015, 04:16:41 PM
I got this friend who was thinking of running both of the latest Atlas GP35s (black with yellow stripes) with an Atlas SD-35 (circus paint). Would a mashup like that be "inappropriate". If not, would it best suit a coal train or a general freight? I just don't speak much Western Maryland, so I thought it best to ask the experts.

Thanks
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: mu26aeh on October 31, 2015, 04:20:26 PM
@wm3798 , could you please answer the call on line 2 ?  Again, wm3798, could you please answer the call on line 2 ?  Thank you  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: jmlaboda - RIP on October 31, 2015, 07:21:44 PM
My only experience with the Western Maryland was up in Maryland when I was in the Army.  A westbound freight came by where my friend and I had parked along the tracks (west of Cumberland) with a black EMD SD35 leading a circus painted F7A.  So, yes, they were mixed.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: auburnrails on October 31, 2015, 07:23:45 PM
I'm no WMRY expert, but a Google image search showed both schemes operating in tandem, though most of the pics I saw were F's.  I did see a circus SD35 with some black F's though.  A few of Lee's images popped up from his old layout and he certainly mixed the two schemes together as well.

Hopefully Lee pipes in here soon for you.

-Dave
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: PiperguyUMD on October 31, 2015, 07:55:34 PM
The Circus scheme came about in June 1969.  Both the black and gold speed letter and the Red White and Black where in use until well into the Kitty Kat era.  I'm sure the two types of locomotives were likely found on all sorts of tasks
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: davefoxx on October 31, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
Maybe this will help, until Lee chimes in:

http://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/protopaint.php
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Mark5 on October 31, 2015, 07:58:44 PM
The Circus scheme came about in June 1969.  Both the black and gold speed letter and the Red White and Black where in use until well into the Kitty Kat era.  I'm sure the two types of locomotives were likely found on all sorts of tasks

Absolutely. I remember seeing lashups with both schemes in the 1970s.

Mark
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: GaryHinshaw on October 31, 2015, 08:34:10 PM
Perhaps these similarly mixed lash-ups will be sufficient evidence for your friend?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=479863&nseq=67
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=331347&nseq=212
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=292058&nseq=238
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: jagged ben on October 31, 2015, 11:15:28 PM
Perhaps these similarly mixed lash-ups will be sufficient evidence for your friend?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=479863&nseq=67
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=331347&nseq=212
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=292058&nseq=238

It's amazing how nowadays any schlub with a bit of extra time and a broadband internet connection can answer questions like these in minutes.    :)
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: w neal on November 01, 2015, 06:35:13 PM
Ta fellas
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: cjm413 on November 01, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
D
The Circus scheme came about in June 1969.  Both the black and gold speed letter and the Red White and Black where in use until well into the Kitty Kat era.  I'm sure the two types of locomotives were likely found on all sorts of tasks

I recall Atlas offered the GP35's in the original 500 series.  Off the top of my head, I don't recall if they were renumbered into the 3500 number series (after the highest numbered B&O and C&O GP35's) before or after June '69.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on November 01, 2015, 08:02:32 PM
You're fine with the two paint schemes side by side. The only question is the pairing.

I kinda remember hearing that those SD35s were in use on a dedicated stone train. That may be incorrect though. Even if it is, I'm sure they occasionally got loose and into the general freight pool, which the WM seemed to mix and match with wild abandon.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Bob Bufkin on November 01, 2015, 08:13:46 PM
They mixed um um lots of times.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa149/rkbufkin/2007-01-01-1800-30_edited.jpg) (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/rkbufkin/media/2007-01-01-1800-30_edited.jpg.html)

You can even throw in some N&W, PC and Reading on those lashups.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: sizemore on November 01, 2015, 08:58:50 PM
The GP-35's showed up on the WMRY in their original numbers 501-505 with Speedscript in December of 1963. They kept their original numbers until 1967 when they were renumbered 3576-3580 to better fit the Boring & Ominus, numbering system. In 1970/71 at their 7 year shopping cycle received RWB (aka Circus). The SD-35's showed up in December of 1964, in Speedscript. Three units were assigned to the stone train between Sparrows Pt and Hanover PA, the other two would float. Like the GP-35's, they received their 7 year service in 1970/71 and repainted into RWB.

So yeah its plausible that you could see a GP-35 (Speed)/SD-35 (RWB) lashup, to the nitpickers that would be a brief time in 1970/1971.

HTH,
The S.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: wm3798 on November 02, 2015, 11:01:31 AM
Sorry I'm late to the party...  Timmah has summed it up well.  Since the Chessie the Knife hadn't yet abandoned the wash racks, both paint schemes would look nice and fresh, too.

The only thing you wouldn't see, as has been pointed out, is a 500 series number running about with a Circus unit.

Lee
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Spikre on November 02, 2015, 02:08:03 PM
 :D
  for some real fun add in the Circus FA-2.
  it was mixed with most anything until sent to GE
  for conversion to a LI Power Cab.
     Spikre
        ;)
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: cjm413 on November 02, 2015, 05:56:16 PM
The GP-35's showed up on the WMRY in their original numbers 501-505 with Speedscript in December of 1963. They kept their original numbers until 1967 when they were renumbered 3576-3580 to better fit the Boring & Ominus, numbering system.

Out of curiousity, was there any reason why the GP35's were promptly renumbered vs. the GP's and F's that retained their original #'s into the $#!++y Kitty era?
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Mark5 on November 02, 2015, 06:33:39 PM
:D
  for some real fun add in the Circus FA-2.

As WM is one of my secondary faves, I've been waiting a looooong time for someone to release a WM circus FA-2.

As Walthers ( :ashat:) is "sitting" on the Lifelike tooling (modern split-frame chassis and all), it seems unlikely any time soon.

Mark
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: sizemore on November 03, 2015, 10:11:15 AM
Out of curiousity, was there any reason why the GP35's were promptly renumbered vs. the GP's and F's that retained their original #'s into the $#!++y Kitty era?

@wm3798 probably knows this a little better than I (I try not to think about it, gives me nightmares of vermillion, blue and yellow). The B&O and C&O had a controlling interest in the WM, starting in 1968 #thanksICC. Initially the WM, B&O and C&O were operated as separate railroads. Now if you really want to know how evil cats are...the Crooked & Omnipotent had controlling interest in the B&O in 1963. So it was one big power-play to consolidate the mid-atlantic and southern railroads (B&O, C&O, Clinchfield, Georgia Railroad, L&N, SCL, and WM).

The only reasoning I can estimate is that the second generation power was "newer" and expected to last beyond the controlling interests (ie: merger), so why not use the tentacles to number everything of good value in line with the rest of the equipment (put WM GP-35's, SD's with the B&O GP-35's and SD's which are in line with the C&O GP-35's...etc.) to make that future merger easier? The first generation stuff began getting renumbered and reassigned post 1973 when the Family Cat was official and consolidation began.

The S.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: sizemore on November 03, 2015, 10:16:31 AM
As WM is one of my secondary faves, I've been waiting a looooong time for someone to release a WM circus FA-2.

As Walthers ( :ashat:) is "sitting" on the Lifelike tooling (modern split-frame chassis and all), it seems unlikely any time soon.

Mark

F's and FA's are a breeze to paint RWB. Paint it white, then run your tape line above the mid rivet belt line. Paint your red. The EMD stuff takes A LOT of patience and good colorful vocabulary. If you have an undec shell, I will paint it for you. You'll have to decal it though.

The S.
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Mark5 on November 03, 2015, 10:31:42 AM
F's and FA's are a breeze to paint RWB. Paint it white, then run your tape line above the mid rivet belt line. Paint your red. The EMD stuff takes A LOT of patience and good colorful vocabulary. If you have an undec shell, I will paint it for you. You'll have to decal it though.

The S.

I will consider this maybe after I finish high nosing and detailing the 40+ N&W loco projects that I have.

That's why I'd prefer factory painted locos for the other roads (mainly WM & VGN) that I am interested in.

Mark
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: cjm413 on November 03, 2015, 11:54:30 AM
As WM is one of my secondary faves, I've been waiting a looooong time for someone to release a WM circus FA-2.

As Walthers ( :ashat:) is "sitting" on the Lifelike tooling (modern split-frame chassis and all), it seems unlikely any time soon.

Mark

Rapido has a HO FA-2 in the works, haven't heard anything about N...
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on November 03, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
I think I heard that they weren't planning on doing them in N.

Of course, things can always change, and I hope they do (because Rapido's game is tight).
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Spikre on November 03, 2015, 02:36:49 PM
 8)
  Mark5,
   Proto did a nice job on the HO Circus FA-2,thought they also did it in N,
   but guess not.
   the body was the Original FA-2 with the falling off Radiator fan housing,
   and the not all going in the same direction side radiator shutters.
   but both are fixable.
   the retooled { from about 2000} FA-2 shell would have been better,but they
  never really got up to speed with that shell,maybe because they were concentrateing
  on the new FA-1s ?
        Spikre
          :?
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: wm3798 on November 05, 2015, 11:06:00 AM
One tale of caution... There are no commercially available decals available (anymore) with the correct height lettering for Circus F units.  Back in the dark ages, Northeast Decals offered a good match, but if you can still find them (40 years hence) they're probably not worth the paper they're printed on.

(http://www.wmrywesternlines.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/Train_Stuff_010.jpg)

Second generation power used 18" high numbers which are available from MicroScale, and the repainted Geeps used 14".  The F units used the elusive 16" lettering.

I downloaded the WM speedlettering font from somewhere (ages ago) and made this myself.

(http://www.wmrywesternlines.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/WM_F-7_53.jpg)

And yes, by the time Chessie the Knife took over, GP 7/9 and F units were pretty much regarded surplus, and many of the Beano-Ceano ones were being retired en-masse.  In fact, a number of beat-to-sh!t C&O geeps were "traded" to the WM to get them off the books. 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wm/wm5933aga.jpg

... which of course was an embarrassment to anyone who Simonized their diesels at Hagerstown.

Eventually, though, the WMs Geeps were so sound, thanks to years of steady maintenance, they were renumbered into the Cheesy number system.  In fact it was a GP 7 or 9 (can't recall which) that was the first WM loco to receive the Litter Box treatment in the paint shop.  There are still a slew of them in short line service around the country, including nos. 25 and 39, which are in the possession of the George's Creek Railroad, and are restored (or in the process of) and operating on old home rails around Westernport.

Lee

Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: Mark5 on November 07, 2015, 09:27:02 AM
Lee,

Thanks, that is useful info (16"). The good news here is that you won't need an alps to print the decal. 8)

Mark
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: davefoxx on November 07, 2015, 09:38:30 AM
Yep, print that on white decal paper, and you can even avoid some masking.

DFF
Title: Re: Western Maryland Dumb - please educate me "Atlas Style"
Post by: cjjd6901 on November 13, 2015, 08:36:38 AM
If you want to start a little toasty rage...add some Chessie kittens to the mix with some 500s    :o


Have fun,

 8)  Chris