TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: Bobster on March 22, 2014, 03:29:53 PM
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Greetings all,
I have this engine but the body looks a wee bit small. Was the chassis designed for another body? If so what else fits this chassis? On the bottom is stamped Kato, NO 17718, Made in Japan. The Rapido couplers are attached to the trucks. It is a very quiet smooth runner. It is out-pulled by a Life Like GP-18 but it normally pulls 3 passenger cars so there really is no problem there. Mainly as I said I'm just curious what's up with the body and what else may fit.
Thank you,
Bob
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See if this answers your question
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp79.html
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Randgust,
Excellent, thank you for the reply. It does help. My questions now are. Does the RS-3 shell drop right on? Are the Atlas-Kato shells compatible with the Atlas China chassis? I believe the Atlas China shells have body mounted couplers. The Atlas-Kato has truck mounted couplers. Any thing else not mentioned at Spookshow's site fit the Atlas-Kato chassis? Just looking for options.
Thanks again,
Bob
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The frame used in the original Atlas/Kato GP7/9 *IS* the Atlas/Kato RS-11/RS-3 frame, so yes, those RS bodies would be a perfect fit. But the GP trucks are wrong for RS locos.
All those early Atlas/Kato locos had a hole in the pilot, and truck-mounted couplers. MT sold coupler conversions which included a pilot adapter to fill that hole and body-mount the coupler.
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The Atlas/Kato RS3 shell will fit on the Atlas Chinese built RS3 chassis with one slight modification. The tabs that hold the cab on need to be removed. Other than that, it is a perfect fit. The Chinese RS3 shell will fit on the older chassis, but the underside of the side will needs to be modified to fit. The little wells that receive the handrail stations need to be trimmed.
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Greetings all,
I have this engine but the body looks a wee bit small. Was the chassis designed for another body? If so what else fits this chassis? On the bottom is stamped Kato, NO 17718, Made in Japan. The Rapido couplers are attached to the trucks. It is a very quiet smooth runner. It is out-pulled by a Life Like GP-18 but it normally pulls 3 passenger cars so there really is no problem there. Mainly as I said I'm just curious what's up with the body and what else may fit.
Thank you,
Bob
The body is a few feet too long. It was stretched to fit over the Atlas/Kato RS3 chassis, resulting in too long of a loco stretched over trucks that were too close together. Probably the worst looking and most disappointing loco Atlas or Kato ever made for the US market.
Photos and description on top of this page: http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp79.html
(The Chinese ones mentioned on this page are completely different tooling and actually scale out nicely)
Mark
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Mark5,
Thank you for the response. Visited Spookshow's site. Just trying to see if something else might fit the mechanism. I will probably leave it alone unless something else could be properly kit bashed onto it. I now know the RS body would fit but the trucks are wrong for an RS-3, but hey enough with the negative vibes! :) Always enjoy watching Kelly's Heroes.
Bob
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The RS-3 or RS-11 shell will go onto the chassis, but I can not say that I have ever seen a photograph of an RS-3 or RS-11 with EMD trucks. I have not seen one live, either. I have seen some later EMDs on ALCo trucks. Those came mostly from trade-ins.
The Chinese RS-3 mechanism will accept the Japanese RS-3 shell. As stated, you must remove one of the cab clips, I think that it is the two-pronged clip, but I forget. You can leave the other clip in place. You must buy, also, the MT conversion kit for this, as the Chinese chassis has no truck mounted couplers.
You can get the Japanese GP-7/GP-9 shell onto the Chinese GP-7/GP-9 chassis, but it will take a bit of work. I have done a test-fit, only.
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You can get the Japanese GP-7/GP-9 shell onto the Chinese GP-7/GP-9 chassis, but it will take a bit of work. I have done a test-fit, only.
But isn't the Atlas/Japan shell proportioned wrong (the goods are few feet too long). Even with correct truck spacing, these would just not look right. OOPS - sorry! Here I go with negative vibes. Ok, that would be an interesting bash. Imagine selling that "thing" on eBay and having people trying to guess just what kind of a model that is! Lots of fun!
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no, no no. Peteski is correct. If the shell is wrong to start with, you would not place it on a correct chassis. It would still be wrong. You have to adapt.
If for some reason someone wanted to preserve a shell (e.g., it was custom painted)
Then place that shell on a GP30/35 mechanism.
Since the shell is TOO long, it looks correct on the slightly longer chassis.
That's exactly what these two models are. I just hated to trash them.
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/CandO6011.jpg)
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/CenGA103.jpg)
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no, no no. Peteski is correct. If the shell is wrong to start with, you would not place it on a correct chassis. It would still be wrong. You have to adapt.
If for some reason someone wanted to preserve a shell (e.g., it was custom painted)
Then place that shell on a GP30/35 mechanism.
Since the shell is TOO long, it looks correct on the slightly longer chassis.
That's exactly what these two models are. I just hated to trash them.
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/CenGA103.jpg)
That is one sleek looking loco. A "stretch-limo" or a Geep! :D But seriously, even if there is something visually strange, it looks pretty decent!
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Then place that shell on a GP30/35 mechanism.
That's a great idea Ron. Thanks!
Several decades back I painted some of these shells into SF zebra stripe scheme, including a GP9 and a GP7 torpedo boat. Like you, I couldn't trash them, so they've been sitting in a drawer ever since the Chinese made GP7s came out. I might have to take a look on eBay for some GP30/35s. Is there much work in this, or does the shell just slip straight on?
Regards,
Ron
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I think I can beat all of you for repurposing. I got one, was sorely disappointed by the way it looked. Got one of the N Scale of Nevada adapter frames that 'corrected' the wheelbase and was made out of basically soft lead. BOY, did that thing pull! But beside a 'normal' GP7 it looked very odd. I also remember that NSN supplied drive shaft extenders to solve that problem.
I also had a Rapido GP30 body that I'd redone with end sills, brass handrails, etc.... so I grafted the Rapido GP30 body onto the Nevada frame using the Atlas parts.... Darn thing pulled like a moose, but the 'pickup' was off the top edges of the trucks to the frame, and if it got tilted just right it would stall, and the lead frame kept oxidizing, requiring cleaning at those points. So it always had to be in MU with something so that the other locomotive could nudge it if necessary, and remember, this mechanism didn't have flywheels. I had it paired with an original Kato GP38, and between the two of them they could outpull any other three locomotives I owned. Just don't creep them over switches or you'd have to send out a rescue train.
Finally sold it on Ebay, in the GP30 shell. " Imagine selling that "thing" on eBay and having people trying to guess just what kind of a model that is! Lots of fun!" " Yeah, Pete, I had a lot of explaining to do on the Retroframe Rapatlas.
Found this on the old Atlas forum, this should help too: http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=52843
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I was not aware that the A/K GP-9 shell was out of scale. I was aware that the frame had the ALCo wheelbase. All that Kato did was substitute EMD truck frames for ALCo. The result was a rather ridicky-poo looking GP-7 or GP-9. I am also aware of the N Scale of Nevada 'corrective frame'. I never tried it, but some who did told me that it was allright, but that you did have to break in the locomotive all over again. I saw a few of them operate and the were about the same as the A/k, but they did look better.
I do have a couple of the A/Ks GP-7 s and GP-9 s somewhere, I just never put the two side-by-side. I do recall that Atlas advertised 'scale width hoods' when they announced the Chinese versions. More than a few have commented that the older road switcher models had too wide hoods to accommodate the power chassis.
I do have an A/K B&O GP-9 that has an as delivered road number, somewhere. I had contemplated putting it onto a Chinese chassis, but I never did buy a 'less popular road name clearance' locomotive to do the swap. Such a thing is still out there, if it ever becomes THAT important. Thanks for the heads-up on the GP-30/GP-35 chassis. I am assuming that you can use either the A/K or Chinese GP-30/GP-35 (was there such as thing as the latter? I do not pay that much attention as I do not operate anything later than an RS-11). I remember when the GP-30 (or was it the GP-35 that came out first?) appeared. Everyone was singing its praises. I did not buy one, because it was out of my era.
Now I will have to find an A/K GP-7 or GP-9 and put it next to a Chinese version.
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Good question.
My conversions were on the old Atlas Kato versions.
But you are correct, the chassis on the modern China version (aside from being DCC ready) should fit the same.
It was not exactly a drop fit. I seem to remember milling a little bit of metal around the fuel tank area in order to get the GP7/9 tank to fit the new chassis.
And I might have needed to file down the locking bumps in the metal just a little.
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I was not aware that the A/K GP-9 shell was out of scale. I was aware that the frame had the ALCo wheelbase. All that Kato did was substitute EMD truck frames for ALCo. The result was a rather ridicky-poo looking GP-7 or GP-9.
Now I will have to find an A/K GP-7 or GP-9 and put it next to a Chinese version.
Quoting Spookshow's writeup (since it seems that this will make this thread clearer)
And unfortunately, they represent a rare miscue for Atlas. For some strange reason, Atlas decided to release a pair of models that simply don't look right - and not just a little bit not right, but a whole lot not right. I mean, even to an untrained observer such as myself, the huge gaps between the ends of the trucks and the ends of the shell look pretty awful.
Kato-made version reviewed: 2/88 Model Railroader: ("N scalers have been watching for these new Geeps, made for Atlas by Kato of Japan, with great anticipation. Unfortunately, this GP7/GP9 project turned out to have a "good news/bad news" result. The bad news is that the unit's overall proportions are incorrect... The body shell is 28" too long. The extra length (6", 10" and 12") has been added to the short hood, cab and long hood respectively. At the same time, the overall wheelbase is 12" short, causing the ends to overhang an extra 20" at each end, further accentuating the appearance problem. The scale height and width are correct.
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As much as the A/K RS-3 announced to the world that N scale could be taken seriously as a modeler's scale, the follow up Geeps signaled to the manufacturers that many of the compromises they had made to N gauge trains would no longer be acceptable to adherents to the scale. Demands for add-on detail, fine scale wheel treads and flanges and road specific details can be traced back directly to the demand for a scale length hood on the Atlas/Kato geep. Before this gaff, we took what the manufacturers gave us, and we liked it!
I bought several RS-3s back in those days, and still have a couple of them. But I never sprang for the GPs, because even in the magazine ads they just looked wrong. Also, when you consider that the old Roco GP9 was actually shorter than it should be, it just made the newer one look even worse. The NSN conversion was a feeble attempt, but it still didn't bring me on board.
If you go the route of putting an RS3 shell onto the mech, you can find older Kato engines on ebay all the time. The conversion kit for the body mount couplers is the MT 1152 (I'm looking at one right now). In fact, I think I have a surplus A/K RS3 in the drawer I'd be happy to make available to you for a modest price.
It will provide you with the proper side frames/trucks, and a shell that will fit without modification. Plus a drive full of spare parts should you need them.
Just let me know via PM
Lee