TheRailwire
General Discussion => Layout Engineering Reports => Topic started by: coldriver on January 28, 2014, 08:47:10 PM
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Hi everyone! My freelanced 25' x 28' N scale layout is based on east central Oregon and is a joint Northern Pacific and Great Northern 1969 theme connecting the Pacific Northwest and California. I'm a fair ways down the construction path so I won't start with the usual bare room or open benchwork shots but will go right to a few finished (more or less) scenes and then show what I'm currently working on. I've had now had four operating sessions which have included some of the regulars on here (Rossford Yard, Soo, Denver Road Doug) and can handle about nine operators.
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okay, first attempt at posting an image
(http://dfwinterchange.com/sites/default/files/ferris_021.jpg?1378753243)
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Very nice. We demand more pictures :)
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Ahh, success with uploading images! The previous shot was Silvies Yard at the base of the 1.8% grade to the summit at Snowline. Most heavy trains get helpers here. Next is Canyon Reload on the forest products shortline Oregon & Northeastern. Note the Wheels of Time Wagner Piggy Packer which has been modified into a Wagner Lumberjack.
(http://dfwinterchange.com/sites/default/files/ferris_019.jpg?1378753242)
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nice! welcome aboard!
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No question that modeling Eastern Oregon means modeling basalt canyons. Emigrant Canyon is my first attempt at modeling a rather large scenic feature and I got somewhat lucky in stumbling on a reasonable technique to simulate the basalt. This canyon will be dwarfed by the canyon I'm currently working on...
(http://dfwinterchange.com/sites/default/files/ferris_017.jpg?1378753242)
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Wyatt [SOO] was just telling the other day that he had the pleasure of playing on your layout.
I recognized some of the photos from his emails.
Looks like an awesome layout to play on!
BTW, welcome aboard.
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The Oregon & Northeastern Logger (behind newly acquired US Army VO 1000's) is heading for the mill complex at Scanlon while across the creek NP train 664 (Silvies - Pasco) drifts downgrade behind three high nose geeps.
(http://lonestarexpress2013.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/Fossil.jpg)
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These scenes look great. Thanks for sharing.
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(http://lonestarexpress2013.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/Fossil.jpg)
I especially like this shot. Thanks for sticking with us.
DFF
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Great looking layout. Can't wait to see more.
Jeff
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Much like!
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Truly nice. Looking forward to more.
You have a track plan to share with us?
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Schweet!
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The Oregon & Northeastern Logger (behind newly acquired US Army VO 1000's) is heading for the mill complex at Scanlon while across the creek NP train 664 (Silvies - Pasco) drifts downgrade behind three high nose geeps.
[picture deleted from quote]
Very nice shot; I love the scene composition with the two lines separated by the creek! I'm digging this layout thus far, good job!
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The Oregon & Northeastern Logger (behind newly acquired US Army VO 1000's) is heading for the mill complex at Scanlon while across the creek NP train 664 (Silvies - Pasco) drifts downgrade behind three high nose geeps.
(http://lonestarexpress2013.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/Fossil.jpg)
I'll give this another thumbs up! Really like the water in the shot. I also like the first picture of the yard on the outside corner, makes it look much bigger.
Mike
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Well done
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Welcome Coldriver! 8) Great pics of your layout. Truly a first class n-scale layout. Can't wait to see more pics/updates, and hopefully I can make it out to the next ops session.
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Thanks all for the kind words. I didn't intend to remain anonymous - my name is Dean Ferris from Decatur, TX (native to Washington state) and I'm Director of Network Strategy for BNSF Railway. Among my prototype duties is shortline valuations and lease extensions, so I really get to examine the nuts and bolts of what makes up a railroad and try to incorporate that knowledge in how I model. For example, I have a goal to maintain a five to one ratio of culverts to bridges (in my prototype experience the ratio is much higher, but it's a start).
I don't have a track plan drawn up that I can share, but the layout is partially double decked with the lower deck mostly staging. The mainline is about 275 feet with four yards - I was a BNSF yardmaster earlier in my career so yards are a high priority for me. I have 17 staging tracks which can hold 25 car trains and I use NCE radio control. I've managed to avoid a helix - actually I built a helix, hated it, and ripped it out (granted, I did a lousy construction job...). Replacing the helix was a peninsula with the creek scene that many of you liked on one side with the log reload on the other, so obviously it was a good decision.
As time allows I'll try to post some additional photos.
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As time allows I'll try to post some additional photos.
What are ya waiting for? :D
Love the shots so far. Would love to see more of the overall layout and the yards.
Sounds like you are uniquely positioned to be a resource on things prototype
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Here's a shot which gives a top to bottom view of how the layout looks - black sheets hanging from the fascia to the floor, backdrop framed with 2 x 2's and masonite, and then the light valence attached to the top of the backdrop frame. The intention is to give a shadowbox look. Someday I hope to cover the top of the valence to darken the ceiling so that only the layout is lit.
This is the helix killing peninsula which allows trains to climb from one level to the next on a 1.8% grade. Originally, I had a band together that used this space for practicing, but when the band broke up the helix was quickly replaced. Note the metal folding chair which allows operators a quick break to get off their feet without getting too comfortable...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/12215673234_262c6e19fb_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12215673234/)
OTVR 176 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12215673234/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Here's my current project - a rather large canyon called Picture Gorge. I'm carving pillar basalt typical of Eastern Oregon out of pink foam. This first shot doesn't look like much as I begin building the basic form using layers of foam.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/12216487214_d4de81ebaa_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/)
008 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Farther along in the process (taken merely minutes ago) I've completed the layers, finished most of the carving, and filled some of the joints with sculptamold. Next step will be cleaning up the carving, then painting, talus, foliage, streambed detailing, and then water. Then I begin the other side of the canyon - when complete you will be looking down a two sided five foot long, two foot high (320 scale feet!) canyon with the track winding through S curves. This is a very time consuming process, but enjoyable, and should provide satisfying results despite my extremely limited artistic skills.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/12216286773_9d50bc3d20_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/)
017 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Wow! Welcome to Railwire. This speaks to me. I'd love to see more. Shots of the layout in its evirons; close-ups of your favorite scenes; a description of your approach to ops; anything else you care to share. Fresh inspiration!
8)
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Excellent basalt cliffs.
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Here's my current project - a rather large canyon called Picture Gorge. I'm carving pillar basalt typical of Eastern Oregon out of pink foam. This first shot doesn't look like much as I begin building the basic form using layers of foam.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/12216487214_d4de81ebaa_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/)
008 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Farther along in the process (taken merely minutes ago) I've completed the layers, finished most of the carving, and filled some of the joints with sculptamold. Next step will be cleaning up the carving, then painting, talus, foliage, streambed detailing, and then water. Then I begin the other side of the canyon - when complete you will be looking down a two sided five foot long, two foot high (320 scale feet!) canyon with the track winding through S curves. This is a very time consuming process, but enjoyable, and should provide satisfying results despite my extremely limited artistic skills.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/12216286773_9d50bc3d20_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/)
017 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
That's just sick! Care to explain the basalt technique. The results speak for themselves, but I'd love an explanation as a side of one peninsula on my layout may be this type scenery to help with a feeling of operators traveling a distance when running trains on the mainlines.
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Nice columnar basalt!
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This is my first finished basalt canyon = Emigrant Canyon. Basically I cut layers of pink foam to the basic shape, and take an Xacto knife to it until it looks right. If there is a secret to it, it's continually varying the cutting angle rather than 90 degrees to the surface so that the foam is not just sliced but tiny strips are removed as you carve. The other secret is to have good photos of pillar basalt on hand to use a reference for your cutting. This is Canyon Jr or David, the one I'm working on now is Canyon Sr or Goliath. The thing about this technique is that it's extremely time consuming, which has ultimately led me to neglecting the fact that I still don't have all my locomotive headlights working and such. By the way, pictured is NP train #658, an SP to NP runthrough from Roseville to Pasco.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3758/12229783003_11d853b701_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12229783003/)
027 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12229783003/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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That is an outstanding scene! Nice work!
Eric
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I have been lucky enough to operate their on three occasions, and the layout runs as well as it looks. Not only that, but Dean has developed a very smooth flowing mainline and yard operating scheme that seems to be just enough work without overwhelming even new operators. Overall, its a railroad that we should all aspire to.
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That is an awesome looking layout. :)
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I have been lucky enough to operate their on three occasions, and the layout runs as well as it looks. Not only that, but Dean has developed a very smooth flowing mainline and yard operating scheme that seems to be just enough work without overwhelming even new operators. Overall, its a railroad that we should all aspire to.
Thanks Jeff, but with the level of talent on this site there's plenty for me to aspire to as well. When are we going to see an update on your layout - or better yet when can I see it in person?
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Doug and I talked last night at the Stars game of doing some sort of DFW N scale only weekend, but we don't need to wait for that for you to see the IHB. Just starting scenery now, and just got rights to move into the next bedroom for a staging yard representing Hammond, IN and the steel mills! Whoo Hoo.
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Doug and I talked last night at the Stars game of doing some sort of DFW N scale only weekend, but we don't need to wait for that for you to see the IHB. Just starting scenery now, and just got rights to move into the next bedroom for a staging yard representing Hammond, IN and the steel mills! Whoo Hoo.
Great news on the right of way acquisition! A N scale weekend would be great - are you thinking Op's or Tours? I'm not really aware of any other N scale operating layouts in the DFW area other than you, me, and Ole.
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Since this is the Layout Engineering Report section, I thought I'd highlight one of my engineering blunders. I wanted to have a UP branchline running from a staging track into Silvies Yard appearing on the visible layout via a tunnel. Unfortunately, I somehow made a very signficant error and did not allow space in the benchwork for the staging track. But I didn't want to abandon my plans for the tunnel scene so instead I just modeled the branchline as abandoned track. The still in service portion of the branchline now serves as the Silvies Yard switching lead. Fortunately, I was able to add the UP branchline at the next siding up the line (Emigrant) which gives the UP Local job some switching in the town of Emigrant and some mainline running to Silvies to interchange with the NP. This view also shows some of my Linn Wescott era classic L-girder benchwork before the fascia went up.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3697/12245998503_16d318ca64_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12245998503/)
003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12245998503/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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That doesn't look like a mistake to me!
Luv the affect of the abandon branch.
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I liked it to. Too few model that. But, maybe it looks real because its genesis is that its an unused (now, for whatever reason) line, so it really looks like it went somewhere! Harder to capture that when "planning for abandonment."
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I liked it to. Too few model that. But, maybe it looks real because its genesis is that its an unused (now, for whatever reason) line, so it really looks like it went somewhere! Harder to capture that when "planning for abandonment."
You hit it on the nose Jeff - I was so happy with the results of the tunnel abandonment, that I decided to add an abandoned logging branch off the Oregon & Northeastern. But it seems like the planned abandonment didn't turn out near as well as if I'd actually laid track and then pulled it up. I haven't decided whether to "abandon this abandonment" or whether to keep it and try to improve it.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/12251939363_5370d354c3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12251939363/)
011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12251939363/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Dean its nice to see you are on the Railwire. I can attest that your layout is very impressive and inspiring not only in pictures, but in person as well.
Marshall
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Let's go back to 2008 for some construction photos. After years of planning for a dream layout, motivation was very high at this point. I built this layout completely by myself but thanks to not having cable or satellite TV, progress was steadt. Being a lone wolf is both a curse and a blessing as I didn't have anyone to bounce ideas off or help me, but I also didn't have anyone clouding my vision for what I was looking for in a layout and was able to come up with some nifty solutions because I didn't have anyone telling me the "right" way to do things.
First out is the grade coming up from Silvies Yard and around the curve which leads into what will become Emigrant Canyon. You can see strips of 1/32" balsa on the outside of the curves which will provide superelevation when the track is laid. Ultimately I decided this curve was too tight at 18" radius (tightest on the layout) and later replaced it with a 21" curve which was well worth a small amount of lost aisle space.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/12262652554_0b98dd29bf_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262652554/)
IMG_2067 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262652554/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Next is both ends of the layout - stacked reversing loops. Only in N Scale (okay Z scale too) can you get away with a feature like this. On top is the main layout level which will become a wye for the Monument Yard locomotive facility (still unbuilt), the middle level is the reverse loop beyond the south staging yard, the lower level is the reverse loop beyond the north staging yard. The middle level track extending to the left is a continuous run connection.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/12262365073_456c3936db_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262365073/)
IMG_2072 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262365073/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
This is the north staging yard which sits below what is now Monument Yard (largest yard on the layout). The shorter staging tracks are a fiddle yard which allows me to switch out consists for through trains after each session. The two staging level tracks against the wall are the continous run connections - one now holds a loaded coal train, the other an empty.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/12262378623_6a297da223_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262378623/)
IMG_2073 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12262378623/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Well, this is just frickin' awesome and inspiring...
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There is so many good little things in Dean's layout design, some shown there
Bottom deck staging isn't so deep as to be an access problem,
Staging turnouts on bench work side for access
Took out the helix, one loop for reverse of both staging yards, 2 track continuous run for loads/empty coal trains
Staging visible and scenicked on one end, camera allows visibility to far end without walking all the way around the layout
Yards and switching areas staggered so no crowded aisles
It goes on, but those are the basics that really separate it as a great layout. And, again, the ops scheme, while in infancy, seems about the best I have seen. Only complaints are from whoever draws the helper assignment for more than an hour or so. All other jobs are great mix of road switching or yard switching.
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I've been fairly satisfied with my layout design overall, with the one glaring exception being the south end staging yard. Here's the scenicked entrance to the NP south end staging yard (called Harney) which is just beyond the south end of Silvies Yard. This location, called Humboldt Jct, is where the GN and NP split at the end of their joint main track through Central Oregon. The line to the left is the GN (all my GN track has red cinder ballast) and the GN staging yard (named Steens) begins around the corner. I'm sure some of you who've followed this entire thread were starting to wonder if the layout had any structures.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/12273008035_00bf6d4c5b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273008035/)
009 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273008035/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Here's what you see as the staging yard leaves the scenicked portion of the layout.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5528/12273694466_c4752b68b2_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273694466/)
010 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273694466/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
The problem with this design is that this location is way too low for a duckunder so you're forced to watch your train's progress through this hole in the backdrop and hope you judge correctly that you're not running out the other end of your track. The alternative is to backtrack a good 75 feet to the other end of the staging yard so you can watch your train closeup. Intially I just told crews, "Don't worry - you'll fit, just pull down so your caboose clears the north end and you'll be fine." I don't know about you, but when I'm given an instruction like that from a layout owner it's not exactly reassuring, especially when I have to qualify the statement with, "One of the staging tracks is significantly shorter than the others, so don't forget that was I just told you doesn't apply to track one."
At any rate it became very obvioius with the first session that I needed to come up with a better solution. My wife provided the inspiration when she started bugging me about getting rid of our old unused TV that's been cluttering up the house for several years. It dawned on me that I had a perfect use for it and ordered a couple cameras for $40 each (they are about the size of a triscuit) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GIP98Y/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
Now crews can watch their progress on TV with both a north and south view of staging. And I installed switch controls for the north end of the GN staging yard above the TV.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3831/12273277463_8921285870_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273277463/)
012 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273277463/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7306/12273659926_00b997b0e3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273659926/)
014 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273659926/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
While I'm at it, here's a photo of the south end of the staging yard. The train lineup is a little unusual with all the run-through WP and ATSF power, typically it's a little more balanced with NP power. The first two tracks against the aisle are the GN staging tracks. The rope light adds just enough light to see what you're doing without drawing attention away from the much more brightly lit scenicked layout.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5512/12273620506_02e4891dfb_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273620506/)
017 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12273620506/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Here's my current project - a rather large canyon called Picture Gorge. I'm carving pillar basalt typical of Eastern Oregon out of pink foam. This first shot doesn't look like much as I begin building the basic form using layers of foam.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/12216487214_d4de81ebaa_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/)
008 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216487214/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Farther along in the process (taken merely minutes ago) I've completed the layers, finished most of the carving, and filled some of the joints with sculptamold. Next step will be cleaning up the carving, then painting, talus, foliage, streambed detailing, and then water. Then I begin the other side of the canyon - when complete you will be looking down a two sided five foot long, two foot high (320 scale feet!) canyon with the track winding through S curves. This is a very time consuming process, but enjoyable, and should provide satisfying results despite my extremely limited artistic skills.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/12216286773_9d50bc3d20_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/)
017 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12216286773/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Good progress over the weekend with my canyon project. Now it's time to start the opposite canyon wall. The track in this photo is the end of the Oregon & Northeastern and serves as a tail track for the log reload.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3685/12282840076_78ce9d6f58_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12282840076/)
002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12282840076/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Looking good!
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Lets see some more!
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You hit it on the nose Jeff - I was so happy with the results of the tunnel abandonment, that I decided to add an abandoned logging branch off the Oregon & Northeastern. But it seems like the planned abandonment didn't turn out near as well as if I'd actually laid track and then pulled it up. I haven't decided whether to "abandon this abandonment" or whether to keep it and try to improve it.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/12251939363_5370d354c3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12251939363/)
011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/12251939363/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
I think this could be made more realistic if you removed a few ties. When they pulled up the switch it's likely that they would have removed to long ties and replaced them with normal ones on the curve, so if you remove those and leave the rest with a short gap it may look better. Also, see if you can do anything about that kink.
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Nice work :)
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7118/13300932563_44a6bd7abb_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300932563/)
P1010271 (2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300932563/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Been a while since I've gave a progress update. Still diligently working on my canyon scene and I mocked up this tunnel at the canyon entrance but ultimately rejected it because I could see it was going to block some photo opportunities.
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There's plenty more I could do to "finish" this scene, but it's done as far as overall form goes and I really need to move on to more pressing layout needs (like a loco servicing facility, etc).
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7216/13301183554_8e999541f3_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13301183554/)
P1010483 (2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13301183554/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Here's the canyon entrance. Eventually I'll paint the backdrop (or use a photo backdrop) but like I said, it's time to move on...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7339/13300978473_7d63108186_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300978473/)
P1010490 (2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300978473/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
I'm pleased with all the photo angle possibilities with this canyon. My layout scenery is heavily influenced by the western photography found in CTC Board magazine (now Railroads Illustrated) back in the late 80's and 90's from guys like Dale Sanders, Blair Kooistra, et al.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/13300843635_3cf4f54eb2_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300843635/)
P1010500 (2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300843635/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Deeper in the canyon I added a slide fence although I didn't wire it up and probably never will.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/13300868435_c1653770ee_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300868435/)
P1010504 (2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/13300868435/) by coldrvr (http://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Overall this canyon is seven feet deep with backdrops on both sides. The final two feet of backdrop on the left is removable to allow access for derailments and maintenance. We'll see how that works out functionally but I'm happy with how it turned out aesthetically!
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Bad a$$. :D
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Now that's a canyon. Very nice.
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You have an excellent eye for landscape detail. I really like it, but the eroded bank in the second photo is tops with me.
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I'd hit it!
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This is killer man! Killer!
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Love the curves too! Very nice!
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Truly epic.
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Living in Western Washington and traveling frequently to the East side, you have really done a very credible job of capturing the look of the Basalt and dry grass.
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Not to mention the river looks impressive too. More pictures and explanations are welcome. :tommann: :D
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Dayum!!! I agree....you just have an eye for grandiose scenery that I don't think I've ever witnessed before.
I love it that there are starting to be a few world-class n-scale model railroads in the DFW area. 8) About damn time. :RUEffinKiddingMe: ;)
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Dayum!!! I agree....you just have an eye for grandiose scenery that I don't think I've ever witnessed before.
I love it that there are starting to be a few world-class n-scale model railroads in the DFW area. 8) About damn time. :RUEffinKiddingMe: ;)
Thanks Doug, I usually think of the term "grandiose" as being a descriptive adjective for a Liberace (or maybe lady gaga for the youngsters reading this) performance, but I'll assume you didn't mean "way over the top" :)
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Thanks Doug, I usually think of the term "grandiose" as being a descriptive adjective for a Liberace (or maybe lady gaga for the youngsters reading this) performance, but I'll assume you didn't mean "way over the top" :)
Yes, I did mean that...but not about YOUR work, but rather the (real life) scenery itself. To me the most breathtaking scenery is almost hard to believe what one is seeing. (so, very much over the top!) So my point was you have a knack for taking that awesome scenery and making it translate onto your layout in manner that is beyond what most modelers are capable of. (and I believe at least one other poster was suggesting that or something close)
Maybe "majestic" scenery would have been better? 8)
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Simply outstanding!
Love the extra touches also like the crooked telegraph poles– nice touch!
The only thing that loses me a little is the backdrop color. Maybe some subtle clouds or slight color variance from bottom to top... Not sure if I'm hitting it or not.
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Take that HO.... :D
Seriously great work taking the vision and carrying it out with such a high level of scene recognigtion on rarely modeled terrain.
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All I can say is FREAK'N AWESOME!
Marshall
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Simply outstanding!
Love the extra touches also like the crooked telegraph poles– nice touch!
The only thing that loses me a little is the backdrop color. Maybe some subtle clouds or slight color variance from bottom to top... Not sure if I'm hitting it or not.
Thanks. Like I said above, I will be painting or adding a photo backdrop eventually, but I have much more pressing issues to attend to right now There's also more sagebrush to plant, more talus to add, etc. When I do finish the backdrop it will be a mix of rock and sky to give the scene more depth.
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Thanks. Like I said above, I will be painting or adding a photo backdrop eventually, but I have much more pressing issues to attend to right now There's also more sagebrush to plant, more talus to add, etc. When I do finish the backdrop it will be a mix of rock and sky to give the scene more depth.
I apologize.
I missed that part.
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Here's some photos of my canyon scene showing how I'm expecting to access the track in the case of derailments and such. Time will tell if this will ultimately be satisfactory, but I least I can reach every point on the track.
This shot shows that the canyon has a backdrop on either side with the obvious problem being access. The notch on the left backdrop in the foreground is set to my armpit height so I can reach over it. I wanted to maintain the maximum possible backdrop while keeping the minimum required amount of access.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/13437354864_0b3ca3a44e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mtpXs9)
My idea is just to have a removable backdrop panel as shown here and reach through a side canyon. Right now it's just quick-release clamped in place, but ultimately I'll probably attach it with hinges or something (ideas?).
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7382/13437119723_81ddb8fb23_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mtoKxZ)
So between the notch in the foreground and the removable panel at the rear I can reach all of the track. What I didn't consider however, was that as I'm stretching to reach all areas of the track I'm also trying to maneuver past a slide fence which extends partway over the track. Fortunately there's just a few inches that are really a pain to reach, but no doubt if a derailment is going to happen anywhere, it'll probably be in those few inches...
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Have you thought about nixing the backdrop altogether, and letting operators enjoying looking down those bluffs into the canyon? Maybe just use the backdrop for photos?
Really great stuff throughout! Bring on some more!
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Have you thought about nixing the backdrop altogether, and letting operators enjoying looking down those bluffs into the canyon? Maybe just use the backdrop for photos?
I have, in fact in the five months I've been building this there has been no left backdrop. The dead-end aisle behind the backdrop is only 20" (meant to be emergency access only) and I don't recall anyone ever using it in an op session other than for the occasional derailment or stall even though the far end of the canyon was essentially done for most of that time. I really want to force the perspective of parallel viewing of this scene rather than our typical perpendicular (or at least sharp angled) model railroad scene viewing. I understand that type of view make not ring true for the Easterners on this board, who are faced with a lot more trees and other obstructions which limit prototype parallel scene viewing winding through s-curves and such. But it's very common in the west (at least beyond coastal areas) and I want this layout to scream "WEST!"
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Yet another good idea in the layout. I think John Armstrong wrote of "view notches" but I don't think I have ever seen one on a real layout.
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Personally, I think the backdrop accomplishes the goal of focusing the view down the canyon, like a "railfanning" spot.
Marshall
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I finally finished my track plan in Xtrackcad! As a reminder the layout is 25' x 28' and all track is in place except between Dayville and Monument Yards (actually there is track in place, but I'm going to rip it out and replace it with what you see here). There's also a lower deck which is mostly staging which I'll post in the future (I need a break from this). I certainly welcome any of your comments and requests for explanations and photos of areas you might be particularly interested in.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/13552296224_622569e279_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mDz4vJ)
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Personally, I think the backdrop accomplishes the goal of focusing the view down the canyon, like a "railfanning" spot.
Marshall
thanks Marshall - that's exactly what I'm aiming for. Back when I lived in the PNW I frequently sought out vantage points in the Columbia Gorge, Deschutes River canyon, etc to get photos such as this.
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I finally finished my track plan in Xtrackcad! As a reminder the layout is 25' x 28' and all track is in place except between Dayville and Monument Yards (actually there is track in place, but I'm going to rip it out and replace it with what you see here). There's also a lower deck which is mostly staging which I'll post in the future (I need a break from this). I certainly welcome any of your comments and requests for explanations and photos of areas you might be particularly interested in.
OK, this is surprising - getting the track plan into XTrackcad was a lot of work, which I did specifically to solicit feedback here. I've never seen this forum go totally silent when a track plan was presented. Anyone?...
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I'm full of envy, it looks pretty good to me. Big layouts like that tend to get a muted response, as they are hard to digest. Micro layouts and HCD tend to be simple enough to get a feel of things pretty quickly.
For me, it is hare to really get a feel for a layout without knowing the topography, but I tend to be more interested in the scenery.
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Likewise, I'm always a little star struck by the huge layouts. I guess I figure if you're in that much then you must have a good handle on things! :D
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Great plan! Thanks for all the work putting that together!
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I'm full of envy, it looks pretty good to me. Big layouts like that tend to get a muted response, as they are hard to digest. Micro layouts and HCD tend to be simple enough to get a feel of things pretty quickly.
For me, it is hare to really get a feel for a layout without knowing the topography, but I tend to be more interested in the scenery.
Ahh, points well taken! Weird thing is that it's sometimes tough for me to digest smaller trackplans, because I've never considered building a small layout, rarely look at smaller trackplans, and certainly don't feel qualified to provide meaningful feedback on one. Not to say that I don't admire them, some of the small layouts I've seen on here have turned out amazing!
The first thing I do when I get my monthly copy of Model Railroader is to skim the pages looking for large trackplans - so that shows you where my head is at...
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I've never built a big layout - probably never will even if I acquire the space. That said I've operated and helped construct several. So, fwiw;
You seem to have two big yards adjacent to each other. Why?
Both yards have industries on their tales that look shoe horned in. Why?
What is the purpose of the curved yard coming off Emirgant heading past Hines lumber?
Could you move that closer to the basalt ballast pit for more room?
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I've never built a big layout - probably never will even if I acquire the space. That said I've operated and helped construct several. So, fwiw;
You seem to have two big yards adjacent to each other. Why?
Both yards have industries on their tales that look shoe horned in. Why?
What is the purpose of the curved yard coming off Emirgant heading past Hines lumber?
Could you move that closer to the basalt ballast pit for more room?
Thanks Phillip, excellent questions.
One of my main goals for this layout is to replicate the experiences I had as a yardmaster in Seattle in the 90's, so naturally my layout is a bit heavy on yard activity. A lot of interaction goes on behind the scenes and on a typical night working Stacy Yard south of downtown I would need to work out all sorts of operating issues with my counterparts at Interbay, South Seattle, Tacoma, and UP's Argo Yard, not to mention the Seattle Terminal Dispatcher. That was one of my favorite things about working the prototype, but it's seldom seen in the modeling world - in fact it's often seems to be outright discouraged. So on the Oregon Joint Line you have three yardmaster/switcher positions from three different railroads (NP, GN, and O&NE) in the greater Monument terminal all of which need to work together to keep the railroad fluid. The Oregon Joint Line is loosely patterned after the Oregon Trunk and Monument is meant to be the OJL's version of Klamath Falls, Oregon (see Gary's Hinshaw's thoughtful analysis where he essentially describes my layout concept even before he'd ever even heard of it (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29551.0)!
Also from my Seattle experiences are the "shoehorned" industrial areas - modeler's are typically "local happy" but there is also a large amount of industrial switching performed by yard engines in terminals. Before I became a yardmaster I loved to work those jobs as a switchman roaming the industrial areas of Seattle overnight. So the shoehorned areas are my attempt to replicate that activity. It's only natural that industries would want to locate as close as possible to major yards - there's no doubt you'll receive better service than locating 50 miles out of town along the mainline.
Here's a couple pictures of the "yard" at Emigrant - as you can see it's not a yard at all, you have the mainline, the meet/pass siding, the lumber mill empty storage track, and the log track (and the lumber and chip tracks beyond). Industries this large almost always have associated storage tracks and while it's hard to find the space for that type of thing on a small layout, I feel like it's a requirement on a large layout.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/13654768473_4b13963da8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mNCfWD)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/13654760285_9c648d7869_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mNCdvt)
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Thanks Phillip, excellent questions.
One of my main goals for this layout is to replicate the experiences I had as a yardmaster in Seattle in the 90's, so naturally my layout is a bit heavy on yard activity. A lot of interaction goes on behind the scenes and on a typical night working Stacy Yard south of downtown I would need to work out all sorts of operating issues with my counterparts at Interbay, South Seattle, Tacoma, and UP's Argo Yard, not to mention the Seattle Terminal Dispatcher. That was one of my favorite things about working the prototype, but it's seldom seen in the modeling world - in fact it's often seems to be outright discouraged. So on the Oregon Joint Line you have three yardmaster/switcher positions from three different railroads (NP, GN, and O&NE) in the greater Monument terminal all of which need to work together to keep the railroad fluid. The Oregon Joint Line is loosely patterned after the Oregon Trunk and Monument is meant to be the OJL's version of Klamath Falls, Oregon (see Gary's Hinshaw's thoughtful analysis where he essentially describes my layout concept even before he'd ever even heard of it (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29551.0)!
Gary is pretty smart.
Nice to hear that your layout operates as good as it looks.
I'm with you on needing storage tracks near the major industries. My paper mill will have a dedicated yard just for that, otherwise the flow of materials would be sporadic.
I'm still trying to totally locate your towns on a map of Oregon based on that one reference to the South Fork of the John Day on the track plan. Do you have a map that places the joint line in context?
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Having lived in and rail fanned Seattle 2002-2006 I know those yards and their tracks well. Nice to connect this layout to that set prototypes. That said as you know there's way more distance between say Interbay and South Seattle then you have there. And Interbay has now spread down past the grain elevator almost to Belltown. So while I can see why from a room stand point you have two yards that closely connected, even your prototypes were farther apart.
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That's a really cool scene! Everything on this layout is top notch. The trees on the hill look a bit sparse or too perfectly spaced though, maybe add a few more here and there? Great blending with the background too.
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I'm still trying to totally locate your towns on a map of Oregon based on that one reference to the South Fork of the John Day on the track plan. Do you have a map that places the joint line in context?
Here's a flyer I put together as an invite to my first op sessions back in 2012 that shows a map. I've taken a little liberty with the names - the area is so sparsely populated that there really isn't much to choose from. If you really want to follow the route (yep, I plotted the grades on topo maps) look for Picture Gorge down through Dayville and Izee (almost modeled), over the divide between the South Fork of the John Day River to Yellowjacket Creek (just north of Yellowjacket Lake) to Emigrant Creek to the Silvies River. And if you're really bored Google has a street view (for unknown reasons) of Forest Service Road 68 which parallels most of the route. The funny thing is that you go for miles and miles on the street view without ever meeting another car - that's what I love about the area!
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/13656134613_56fa6ff1b8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mNKg3M)
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Having lived in and rail fanned Seattle 2002-2006 I know those yards and their tracks well. Nice to connect this layout to that set prototypes. That said as you know there's way more distance between say Interbay and South Seattle then you have there. And Interbay has now spread down past the grain elevator almost to Belltown. So while I can see why from a room stand point you have two yards that closely connected, even your prototypes were farther apart.
Our most frequent contact was with UP Argo, which of course is quite close to Stacy and was the most interesting (and often contentious) interaction. Obviously central Oregon and downtown Seattle have little in common, but I'm trying to replicate the roles rather than the locations.
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The trees on the hill look a bit sparse or too perfectly spaced though, maybe add a few more here and there?
Now that you mention it you're quite right - those trees are lined up in rows like a Christmas tree farm! Noted...
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Our most frequent contact was with UP Argo, which of course is quite close to Stacy and was the most interesting (and often contentious) interaction. Obviously central Oregon and downtown Seattle have little in common, but I'm trying to replicate the roles rather than the locations.
I worked at USACE down in SODO on East Marginal and I heard some of those contentions from our parking lot!
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Here's a flyer I put together as an invite to my first op sessions back in 2012 that shows a map.
Excellent. This schematic, combined with your track plan puts everything together for me now. Great concept Now I'd be very curious to see how many, and what type, of jobs you have for your operators during a typical session, especially among the two central yards. One question: do your north and south staging yards connect with each other on the lower level?
Feel free to post more photos, especially ones that are keyed to the track plan. :)
Cheers,
Gary
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All I can tell you is that the op scheme is one of the best I have seen. I have run Monument Yard twice and he provides a "playbook" telling you what trains are coming, what to do with them. Not a lot of cherry picking switching, as per prototype. And, from time to time you look up and ask "Hey, where it train 357?" only to find out it has been delayed for some reason, so you go on to whatever other task you can do while waiting. Also fun is walking around the corner to the Dayville operator and asking "you ready for my cut yet?" There are radios, and some jobs need them, but its also informal enough which is good, too.
Its non stop action, but at the same time, not the pressure some yardmasters get on big layouts (might have as much to do with host's personality as the op scheme, but both contribute) Dean describes it as a result of a flexible schedule, where he may only release trains sequentially. If a particular yard is jammed up, he may just hold the train an extra scale half hour.
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Here's a more legible version of the track plan (I'm still learning about such things...)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/13670622464_1504e5df76_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mQ2vMj)
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All I can tell you is that the op scheme is one of the best I have seen. I have run Monument Yard twice and he provides a "playbook" telling you what trains are coming, what to do with them. Not a lot of cherry picking switching, as per prototype. And, from time to time you look up and ask "Hey, where it train 357?" only to find out it has been delayed for some reason, so you go on to whatever other task you can do while waiting. Also fun is walking around the corner to the Dayville operator and asking "you ready for my cut yet?" There are radios, and some jobs need them, but its also informal enough which is good, too.
Its non stop action, but at the same time, not the pressure some yardmasters get on big layouts (might have as much to do with host's personality as the op scheme, but both contribute) Dean describes it as a result of a flexible schedule, where he may only release trains sequentially. If a particular yard is jammed up, he may just hold the train an extra scale half hour.
Thanks Jeff. We move a lot of volume in a session and the yards do a lot of switching. What makes it possible (even for an operator that's never been there before to easily run Monument Yard by himself) is that I use cartabs and hand throw switches. So you almost never have to take your eyes off the layout - there's no looking at a stack of car cards or a switchlist and then trying to match it up with car numbers. There's no looking at the switches and then down at a control panel and then back to the track to see if the right switch has thrown, etc. That being said I use the Caboose Industries handthrows which are functional but look horrible. But it's worth it to me - having been a real switchman I want to mimic the activity of throwing a switch, not pressing a button on a panel. At any rate, unlike many operating schemes, my yard operators often are able to keep well ahead of the mainline activity even though it's coming at them at a frantic pace.
Jeff alludes to something that I learned in my real yardmastering days. Most of you who have participated in operating sessions know that if a session is going to melt down anywhere it will be in the yard. The same is true on the prototype and unlike a mainline meltdown the consequences of a yard meltdown may take days to recover from. To keep that from happening the yard switcher needs to be the highest priority job in the yard. So when a mainline freight shows up wanting to get into the yard, we hold him out until it's convenient for the yard to bring him in. This really throws a curveball at most model dispatchers who think that clearing the main is the highest priority. Of course if you need to clear a path for a passenger train or hot intermodal then clearing the main can be the highest priority. But from my prototype experience there's typically a conversation that goes on between yardmaster and dispatcher before a train leaves the closest meeting point outside the yard where the dispatcher will ask if the yard can take an approaching train. Often the yard will say, "I need to get a train out before I can bring one in so put him in the hole at Snowline (in my case) and by the way, my outbound won't be ready to leave for a half hour." It's perfectly acceptable practice.
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Uh oh, we've turned coldriver into hotriver. :trollface:
My excuse is I didn't see your update, and I'll echo others...I don't really have the skins on the wall to comment too much. Although, as a former technical consultant I learned that you don't have to have vast experience to provide valuable insight as long as you have knowledge/expertise. Here, I don't really have that either. :D
Seriously though, Dean knows that I have provided feedback... I can echo Jeff's comments that the operational aspects have been impeccable. Some things are still in development since Dean is maybe in double-digit ops sessions at this point but just barely. I did provide some feedback and amazingly (unfortunately? :facepalm: ) Dean did listen. I proposed track warrants which Dean then educated me that track warrants weren't in use until post-1970...and then he went ahead and tried them anyway. :scared: I don't think he was happy with the results...I liked it because it was very familiar to me (that's how BN operated in the area I grew up, and using a scanner I knew exactly what was going on during that timeframe...unlike now where it's a crapshoot.) and I probably thought it went better than he did. :| But anyway, I know signals are high on his list and is ultimately where he's going for mainline running.
Regarding the trackplan, well it's right up my alley....single track main and passing sidings make my day. And I guess the yards are ok. :trollface: One thing I'll comment on that struck me...the geography is such that the layout has the summit (Snowline) that keep the yards at an elevation to clear the staging yards and then gradually (or not) descends to eventually wind down into the staging yards without using a helix. The Fossil/Picture Gorge area is essentially a nolix of sorts that replaced a helix that Dean had in place and nixed early on. (if I recall his account correctly) I assume that was part *actual* geography and maybe part by design but it seems to work well. I would love to apply it to my future layout but my geography is the exact opposite, the middle being a river valley which would put staging on top. Not unprecedented, but not ideal either....lower staging only needs minimal clearance, whereas visible layout would (potentially) require much more and making the nolix grade impractical.
Anyway, the BEST thing about the posted trackplan is it lets me get more familiar with the layout locations and station/yard names and so forth for the next ops session. I do much better when I have the ability to study things even just a little before being thrown in. (not an indictment of the OJL mind you....just a weird quirk of mine.)
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What makes it possible (even for an operator that's never been there before to easily run Monument Yard by himself) is that I use cartabs and hand throw switches. So you almost never have to take your eyes off the layout - there's no looking at a stack of car cards or a switchlist and then trying to match it up with car numbers. There's no looking at the switches and then down at a control panel and then back to the track to see if the right switch has thrown, etc. That being said I use the Caboose Industries handthrows which are functional but look horrible. But it's worth it to me - having been a real switchman I want to mimic the activity of throwing a switch, not pressing a button on a panel.
Definitely a win using hand thrown switches so you don't have to step back to read the fascia to pick out which button to push... That takes away from the moment.
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I worked at USACE down in SODO on East Marginal and I heard some of those contentions from our parking lot!
I had to look up what USACE meant and where it was... Yes, you would've had a front row seat!
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I proposed track warrants which Dean then educated me that track warrants weren't in use until post-1970...and then he went ahead and tried them anyway. :scared: I don't think he was happy with the results...I liked it because it was very familiar to me (that's how BN operated in the area I grew up, and using a scanner I knew exactly what was going on during that timeframe...unlike now where it's a crapshoot.) and I probably thought it went better than he did. :| But anyway, I know signals are high on his list and is ultimately where he's going for mainline running.
Anyway, the BEST thing about the posted trackplan is it lets me get more familiar with the layout locations and station/yard names and so forth for the next ops session. I do much better when I have the ability to study things even just a little before being thrown in. (not an indictment of the OJL mind you....just a weird quirk of mine.)
I'm willing to give the track warrants another shot Doug, we got off to a decent start when we tested them but things went way down hill when the throttle issues pretty well brought the session to a screeching halt. I did learn a lot from that session and have some ideas for making it easier on everyone (#1 - you can't expect someone to copy a track warrant if you don't provide them a writing surface). And everyone's a lot more familiar with the siding names now so that will help. You weren't the only one who mentioned that you liked the track warrants and it's certainly a lot more prototypical than me dispatching the layout "yardmaster style".
I'm with you on needing to study the names on a track plan. It seems like I can't remember the location names on Ole's layout from one month to the next. BTW, I'm looking at the possibility of a session on April 26.
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Ha, I was gonna say the same thing about Ole's but I didn't want to embarrass myself *too* much. I am probably in on the 26th so keep me posted.
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To be fair to ourselves, Ole did change some his town names a few times. Seems like me learning them is his cue to make subtle changes to his layout.....
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It's the North Texas Staging War! As soon as I found out that Rossford Yard and Soo both had significantly more staging tracks than I did, I decided to expand my staging yards to add more capacity. Not too mention that the operating crew has become efficient enough that we're starting to run out of trains before the end of our three hour sessions and I didn't really want to recycle trains during a session. So, the new totals are: NP North Staging = 7 tracks, GN North Staging = 4 tracks, NP South Staging = 8 tracks, GN South Staging = 3 tracks, and coal staging (on the continuous run connection) = 2 tracks for a grand total of 24 tracks and capacity of roughly 600 cars! Problem is that I believe Soo has 25 tracks and Rossford Yard recently scored some more real estate for his own staging expansion. But at least we should keep our LHS's busy. Here's a shot of the reconfigured north staging yards.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/14354328103_adca2bf48d_h.jpg)
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You mean we ran too many trains? :D I think we just a really good dispatcher, especially issuing all those track warrants.
The extended staging is looking good. More staging + more trains = more fun!
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Nice. You can never have enough staging.
I am in the process of installing my first permanent staging yard now; it will be a 9-track stub-end yard with 15 to 16' tracks for long trains. I could have gone with 10 tracks @ 1 1/4" spacing, but I decided to go with 9 @ 1 3/8" so I could deal with mishaps a bit more easily. Hopefully I don't regret losing one track, but vertical clearances are tight, so this seems wise...
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Nice. You can never have enough staging.
I am in the process of installing my first permanent staging yard now; it will be a 9-track stub-end yard with 15 to 16' tracks for long trains. I could have gone with 10 tracks @ 1 1/4" spacing, but I decided to go with 9 @ 1 3/8" so I could deal with mishaps a bit more easily. Hopefully I don't regret losing one track, but vertical clearances are tight, so this seems wise...
Staging = N + 1 according to Tony Koester, with N being the number of tracks you think you need.
I am going with 1 1/2 currently, Gary, probably because of my NTRAK experiences where that spacing is finger friendly even at a stretched arm distance.
The OJL is more and more impressive every time I check in on this thread. A layout that not only looks stunning, but operates fabulously.
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Nice. You can never have enough staging.
I am in the process of installing my first permanent staging yard now; it will be a 9-track stub-end yard with 15 to 16' tracks for long trains. I could have gone with 10 tracks @ 1 1/4" spacing, but I decided to go with 9 @ 1 3/8" so I could deal with mishaps a bit more easily. Hopefully I don't regret losing one track, but vertical clearances are tight, so this seems wise...
As much as more staging is almost always desirable I'd say you made a wise choice from my experience. I feel like 1 1/4" is the absolute minimum spacing under the best of circumstances but would be too tight given limited vertical clearances. I actually started with 1 3/4" spacing in my staging yards and managed to squeeze in another track with the rebuild by taking it to 1 1/2". I end up doing a fair amount of "manual" restaging where I'm swapping out open loads and empties (primarily lumber and chip cars) between sessions so even though my staging is double ended and continuous on both ends (via reverse loops) I still need to get my fingers in between tracks - which is impossible with 1 1/4".
My sidings are set to 11' trains but four of my new staging tracks are more in the "Gary Hinshaw range" of 15 feet. I may implement a non-clearing southbound scenario just like BNSF uses today on the Oregon Trunk/Gateway Sub where they run up to 7,000' south, but no more than 5,300' north. As much fun as a 28 car helper train is a 40 car helper train even sounds better. Have you experimented with running both mid-train and rear end helpers on the same train? I'd like to give it a shot...
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Think I went 1.5". My rule (don't ask how I know this.... :facepalm:) is to be far enough apart that a stack train tipping over won't affect the next track.
Dean, I think this will replace the Alamo as Texas' best remembered battle!
For the record, and conservatively figured I have:
1 main level staging track hidden under buildings/scenery, used by CSX and others at 13 feet
22 lower level staging tracks (although 2 are really running tracks, averaging about 11 feet (representing all Chicagoland connections east and west)
6 next room (representing Hammond) staging tracks averaging 6 feet (really 7, but one will be an oil tank industrial track in the final scheme)
Total of about 269 feet and about 725-807 cars (which I could fill to the brink!)
Capacity measured in 50 footers, but modern fleet probably should be at 55 or 10% less, accounting for the range. To compare to Dean's should measure in 40-45 ft average!
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My sidings are set to 11' trains but four of my new staging tracks are more in the "Gary Hinshaw range" of 15 feet. I may implement a non-clearing southbound scenario just like BNSF uses today on the Oregon Trunk/Gateway Sub where they run up to 7,000' south, but no more than 5,300' north. As much fun as a 28 car helper train is a 40 car helper train even sounds better. Have you experimented with running both mid-train and rear end helpers on the same train? I'd like to give it a shot...
40 car trains with helpers are great fun! I have tried to run the grain train with mid and rear helpers and was pretty successful. It will be even more successful with body-mount couplers, at least on the cars ahead of the pushers.
I am definitely planning some non-clearing trains in my sessions for added interest. On Tehachapi, they run trains in both directions that don't clear the short sidings (especially Walong, the Loop siding). A 16' train on TBC will not clear my Loop siding either, so the dispatcher will have to cope. :lol:
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(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/13654768473_4b13963da8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mNCfWD)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/13654760285_9c648d7869_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mNCdvt)
How was it building the Long Valley Lumber kit? I like the colors you chose [and overall way it turned out] more than any examples I have seen.
I picked up the LVL kit at a train show in Roseville, CA for a steal ($30). I haven't started building it yet, but the N-Scale Architect kits seem to have stellar instructions.
Any tips/insight is greatly appreciated.
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How was it building the Long Valley Lumber kit? I like the colors you chose [and overall way it turned out] more than any examples I have seen.
I picked up the LVL kit at a train show in Roseville, CA for a steal ($30). I haven't started building it yet, but the N-Scale Architect kits seem to have stellar instructions.
Any tips/insight is greatly appreciated.
Wow, that is an amazing steal for $30! The kit was fairly straight forward but it definitely took some time. The major deviation I took was that it was set up to be fed by a log pond whereas I went for a cold deck. And it definitely needs some space if you want to attempt a reasonable representation of the log deck and lumber yard.
The light green color was inspired by Potlatch Corp and Boise Cascade facilities in the PNW. East of the Cascades timber was fairly sparse so large companies tended to be regionally dominate, often with several production facilities spread across a region (Potlatch in north central Idaho, Boise Cascade in Southern Idaho/NE Oregon, Weyerhaeuser in the Klamath Falls area, Edward Hines in Burns, OR, St Regis in Western Montana, etc). So I've tried to replicate that by having the lumber mills at Hines, the pulp and plywood mills at Scanlon, and the forest products shortline Oregon & Northeastern all with the same light green colored paint scheme.
Here's my pulp mill -
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/14359012791_e93fec0366_h.jpg)
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I really like how yours turned out. The whole layout is just amazing!
Well, I am beginner, building a freelanced HCD. The idea was to use the layout as a solid base learning platform. That all being said, I don't have a plethora of space. The area slated for the Long Valley Lumber is 30" long by between 10" and 14" deep. I thought I might scrap the log deck/pond/processing, and just have it be a lumber yard. I'd like it to come across as an older lumber facility repurposed as a modern lumber yard -something you might find along the 101, north of San Francisco.
I figure it won't be a totally realistic situation, but it's a freelanced HCD. I've already taken plenty of liberties with selective compression.
Speaking of Boise Cascade, have you ever seen Robert Ray's Z-Trak module with the BC Lumber?? It's amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1QXZ9oJEeI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1QXZ9oJEeI)
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I like that color green. What did you use? I should have went with something like it instead of the blue I used.
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Happy 4th everyone! Been travelling quite a bit so not much progress on the layout. A friend gave me a Kato California Zephyr set to which I added a F3A-F3B-F3B consist. I haven't been able to come up with a plausible operational reason for the California Zephyr to be in Central Oregon (ideas, anyone?) but it sure looks nice.
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... I haven't been able to come up with a plausible operational reason for the California Zephyr to be in Central Oregon (ideas, anyone?) but it sure looks nice.
Sacramento River delta flooding. Back in the day, pretty much took the whole Sacto/Stockton area out of commission.
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I haven't been able to come up with a plausible operational reason for the California Zephyr to be in Central Oregon (ideas, anyone?) but it sure looks nice.
It does look nice! Here's my thoughts:
1) Rule #1 (It's your layout, so your rules (or lack thereof) control).
2) Derailment requires detour.
3) Weather has decimated the west coast, requiring significant detour.
4) Excursion using private equipment.
DFF
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Happy 4th everyone! Been travelling quite a bit so not much progress on the layout. A friend gave me a Kato California Zephyr set to which I added a F3A-F3B-F3B consist. I haven't been able to come up with a plausible operational reason for the California Zephyr to be in Central Oregon (ideas, anyone?) but it sure looks nice.
California went to hang out with Hawaii.
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Beautiful job on the superelevation. Seeing the train lean into the curves is a sight to behold!
James
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Had our first op session on the OJL since April on Saturday.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15638546222_0e432d26f0_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPVCXh)Fossil (https://flic.kr/p/pPVCXh) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Here we see first time OJL operator Chris King guiding Northern Pacific train 655 (Pasco-Stockton/WP) upgrade past Fossil siding and over the diamond at O&NE Crossing. He will be calling for landing instructions from the Monument yardmaster shortly. A lone GP9 helper piloted by Ole Melhouse shoves hard on the rear of the 31 car drag.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15638543372_12762431a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pPVC79)Monument Yard (https://flic.kr/p/pPVC79) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Monument Yardmaster John Aspebakken works out a plan of attack for making #655's set out and pickup while Chris waits for instructions. Ole Melhouse has temporarily cut his helper off but will reattach for the shove up the 2.2% from Monument to Snowline once the work is complete at Monument.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15016955254_6507889d0c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oSZPBC)Graystone (https://flic.kr/p/oSZPBC) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Charging up the other side of the hill is NP train #658 (Roseville/SP - Pasco) with Chris Atkins at the helm and Railwire's own Denver Road Doug keeping the slack bunched with his helper set. This train will reach Monument prior to #655's departure making for a nightmare scenario for Yardmaster Aspebakken. But with plenty of consulting and planning from both train crews the work was accomplished in an efficient manner and both trains were able to depart Monument as soon as Great Northern train RWG (Rio Grande/Western Pacific/Great Northern) slipped by on the main.
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California went to hang out with Hawaii.
CAUTION: NSFW, language, cultural insensitivity, pure awesome.
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Had our first op session on the OJL since April on Saturday.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/15016955254_6507889d0c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oSZPBC)Graystone (https://flic.kr/p/oSZPBC) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Charging up the other side of the hill is NP train #658 (Roseville/SP - Pasco) with Chris Atkins at the helm and Railwire's own Denver Road Doug keeping the slack bunched with his helper set. This train will reach Monument prior to #655's departure making for a nightmare scenario for Yardmaster Aspebakken. But with plenty of consulting and planning from both train crews the work was accomplished in an efficient manner and both trains were able to depart Monument as soon as Great Northern train RWG (Rio Grande/Western Pacific/Great Northern) slipped by on the main.
I will add that it was a very successful and fun day on the OJL! It's hard to believe that we have such an outstanding large n-scale layout in the area, and I can't thank Dean enough for the opportunity to operate on his layout. (and I am going to make every effort to not have such a jam-packed Saturday...seems I've had to cut the last two short and that's no fun)
My first job was running the O&NE shortline, which is one of many jobs I've yet to experience. It was a lot of fun and a really good example of how well-thought-out Dean's layout is. I'm past "beginner" but still relatively new to operations so I am still learning how the tab-on-car system works and that was a good opportunity to grasp how it all goes together. But Dean has it timed out such that the GN transfer run shows up right as the bulk of the work on the O&NE is completed. I was running a *little* behind and was returning to the yard with a train of empty log cars as the GN train arrived. But, as might happen in the real world, I had to break down that train so that the yard was able to receive the GN cars and allow the GN power to run around. So that little bit of complexity made it all the more fun....and at the same time stressful, as the GN engineer was being a real jerk! :D Just kidding, it was none other than The Railwire's own SSW7771 aka Marshall and he was actually helping me with the identifying the tabs I needed for the cars for his train.
And then the helper job. :facepalm: Normally these are fun...it really does require some skill to keep, say the back 1/3rd of the train bunched up without pushing cars off curves but also not lollygagging around and stringlining the train by not keeping up. But I managed to really royally screw this one up after I completed the pushing operation (the "hard part") to Snowline. It's a good example of what happens in a real life rail disaster when a train crew is tired and distracted and regurgitates a track warrant but really doesn't "hear" what they were told. So, nobody died in this case but nevertheless it was a frustrating screw up.
But outside my ineptitude, the layout performed flawlessly, and I can't wait for the next operating session. 8)
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Congratulations on another successful session. It's hard to underestimate how much fun a quality ops session can be, and what a dimension it adds to the hobby. With the right mixture of operability and challenge, and a not-too-anal attitude towards the rules, it is one of life's great pleasures. :lol:
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I will add that it was a very successful and fun day on the OJL! It's hard to believe that we have such an outstanding large n-scale layout in the area, and I can't thank Dean enough for the opportunity to operate on his layout. (and I am going to make every effort to not have such a jam-packed Saturday...seems I've had to cut the last two short and that's no fun)
My first job was running the O&NE shortline, which is one of many jobs I've yet to experience. It was a lot of fun and a really good example of how well-thought-out Dean's layout is. I'm past "beginner" but still relatively new to operations so I am still learning how the tab-on-car system works and that was a good opportunity to grasp how it all goes together.
And then the helper job... It's a good example of what happens in a real life rail disaster when a train crew is tired and distracted and regurgitates a track warrant but really doesn't "hear" what they were told. So, nobody died in this case but nevertheless it was a frustrating screw up.
But outside my ineptitude, the layout performed flawlessly, and I can't wait for the next operating session.
Thanks Doug - it didn't dawn on me until I read this that you have always taken the road jobs at past sessions and didn't understand the finer points of the car tab system. Sorry about that - it's not hard to learn, but certainly a basic explanation was warranted rather than just pointing at the yard and telling you to have at it. And because the O&NE is the most isolated job I neglected to check on you as often as I should have.
Certainly no one on our crew is immune to mistakes and really that's part of the fun - to laugh at your own and everyone else's mistakes. I found myself getting a little rummy after issuing 36 track warrants in 2.5 hours without the use of any sort of dispatchers panel - so when I saw you reverse direction down at Emigrant I immediately thought I must've issued you a bad warrant. Congratulations on another successful session. It's hard to underestimate how much fun a quality ops session can be, and what a dimension it adds to the hobby. With the right mixture of operability and challenge, and a not-too-anal attitude towards the rules, it is one of life's great pleasures. :lol:
thanks Gary, your comments are right on. I love the diversity of talent and interests in this hobby, but Op Session success is by far my biggest motivating factor!
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:D Just kidding, it was none other than The Railwire's own SSW7771 aka Marshall and he was actually helping me with the identifying the tabs I needed for the cars for his train.
Its called teamwork, plus I had a yard to get back too and couldn't just what around :D My first time working one of the yards I had a hard time too, but Dean did a good job with the cheat sheets mounted at each yard. Once you get the hang of the car tabs, it really makes switching large yards much smoother.
Thanks Doug - it didn't dawn on me until I read this that you have always taken the road jobs at past sessions and didn't understand the finer points of the car tab system. Sorry about that - it's not hard to learn, but certainly a basic explanation was warranted rather than just pointing at the yard and telling you to have at it. And because the O&NE is the most isolated job I neglected to check on you as often as I should have.
More op sessions = seasoned crew :D Seriously, with each session I get more familiar with the locations, operations, and car tabs which helps make the session even more enjoyable and I don't have to ask so many annoying questions to the dispatcher.
Overall it was a great op session. I really enjoyed working GN's Dayville Yard and having to make the transfer run to Monument Yard and the O&NE. Then later running the RWG; special thanks to the Dispatcher for running the helper set for the push up to Snowline :) I was able to snap a couple of photos of the RWG gliding down grade after cutting off the helpers at Snowline. Thanks again Dean for hosting another great op session!
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2547/IMAG0534.jpg) (http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/165816/title/oregon-joint-line/cat/2547)
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2547/IMAG0537.jpg) (http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/165819/title/oregon-joint-line/cat/2547)
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Thanks Doug - it didn't dawn on me until I read this that you have always taken the road jobs at past sessions and didn't understand the finer points of the car tab system. Sorry about that - it's not hard to learn, but certainly a basic explanation was warranted rather than just pointing at the yard and telling you to have at it. And because the O&NE is the most isolated job I neglected to check on you as often as I should have.
Actually, that wasn't a big deal. I was just following the cheat sheet and it was laid out pretty well. Marshall helped me as well. I did have a couple of other things I was wondering if I did right...like at the end I suspect it would have been better to only spot half (or less) of the boxcars at the paper mill and just leave the rest in the yard. If I screwed up anything else then we'll figure it out next time. :) But overall, it was a lot of fun. Running the turn up to Canyon Reload was really neat.
Certainly no one on our crew is immune to mistakes and really that's part of the fun - to laugh at your own and everyone else's mistakes. I found myself getting a little rummy after issuing 36 track warrants in 2.5 hours without the use of any sort of dispatchers panel - so when I saw you reverse direction down at Emigrant I immediately thought I must've issued you a bad warrant. thanks Gary, your comments are right on. I love the diversity of talent and interests in this hobby, but Op Session success is by far my biggest motivating factor!
Oh no, it wasn't you. :oops: You called out Dayville and I wrote down Dayville and repeated Dayville but the entire time my mind was thinking Silvies. :facepalm: What we did was a slight departure to how I had done it on prior runs, and I just had preconceived what was going to happen. I think this is maybe the 7th or 8th helper run I'd done, and always before I would either (a) run up to Snowline, cut off power, and return to the originating yard (Silvies or Dayville/Monument) OR make the entire run Silvies-Dayville/Monument or Dayville/Monument-Silvies without cutting the power. Never previously had I cut power and then followed that train down (or if we did it wasn't with a track warrant, which I guess was the real diffference here.) and I just had the idea in my head that S.O.P. was one or the other. There were other pretty tell-tale signs that it was a dumb move but I just wasn't on my A-game. (and that was a fact, though I digress...I just had too much other stuff on my mind to be operating heavy machinery like that. :P ) And all that being said only as clarification of what happened. It didn't have any affect on my enjoyment of the day in the least. I mean, I would like to make it through a session feeling like I did everything right at some point but, I certainly don't take things so seriously. Well except for the whip lashings afterward....have to keep myself in line.... :o
It's hard to underestimate how much fun a quality ops session can be, and what a dimension it adds to the hobby. With the right mixture of operability and challenge, and a not-too-anal attitude towards the rules, it is one of life's great pleasures. :lol:
Gary, that is so true. I feel fortunate to be included in some great ops sessions around the area.
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I finally finished up my next big project - the Bear Creek Coulee Trestle. Structurally, it's a straight unmodified 320' Micro-Engineering viaduct. I'm diving even deeper in to my theme of modeling "out in the middle of nowhere" so this is only structure on the newly scenicked 15' of mainline.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8627/16182188787_49afec09d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qDXWWX)QRG Power at Bear Coulee2 (https://flic.kr/p/qDXWWX) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Here we see GN run-through train QRG (CB&Q to DRGW to GN) from Kansas City to Seattle drifting down grade.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7349/16367166562_2a200d17d9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qWj1oW)QRG Power at Bear Coulee (https://flic.kr/p/qWj1oW) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Bringing up the rear is newly acquired NP U25C #2525 which we broke in as the Oregon Joint Line helper unit at our op session on Saturday.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7325/16180684510_a830c60d14_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qDQeM9)QRG Helper at Bear Coulee 2 (https://flic.kr/p/qDQeM9) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/15748086493_88aa7b8bf5_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pZB4sD)QRG Helper at Bear Coulee (https://flic.kr/p/pZB4sD) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Very nice. I love that everything about the train is plausibly accurate for the era. The Trainworx TOFCs towards the back is an especially nice touch.
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Yet another awesome scene on a great layout. 8)
And it was a great ops session Saturday. Thanks again for hosting us.
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California went to hang out with Hawaii.
Alaska can come too.
Lol...
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Love the trestle scene. I'm a HUGE fan of modeling "nothing". I'd love to see the rest of the 15'.
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Love the trestle scene. I'm a HUGE fan of modeling "nothing". I'd love to see the rest of the 15'.
Okay - here's some more nothing. This is the ruling grade on the layout at 2.2% and is meant to be your typical western "cut into a hillside" look. The curve is 54" radius!
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7321/15770583794_b5f1392c25_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2An89)Izee2 (https://flic.kr/p/q2An89) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8567/16206815899_d27965a88a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qG9aJk)izee3 (https://flic.kr/p/qG9aJk) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7402/16367055486_5a5d4a0e45_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qWirnQ)Izee (https://flic.kr/p/qWirnQ) by coldrvr (https://www.flickr.com/people/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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NP Hawtness.
I want that NCL! lol
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Okay - here's some more nothing. This is the ruling grade on the layout at 2.2% and is meant to be your typical western "cut into a hillside" look. The curve is 54" radius!
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7321/15770583794_b5f1392c25_b.jpg)
I love everything about this shot! You should submit it - or something similar - to Trackside Photos.
Your use of cut & fill topography is among the best I can recall ever seeing, and the ground cover highlights it very effectively.
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I love everything about this shot! You should submit it - or something similar - to Trackside Photos.
Your use of cut & fill topography is among the best I can recall ever seeing, and the ground cover highlights it very effectively.
+1. Great example of the scenes that can be accomplished in the scale, especially "vertical" scenery.
It reminded me greatly of driving through the eastern Oregon and Washington areas, so well done.
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I'd say you've successfully modeled nothing because there is nothing ( :facepalm: :trollface:) to say about that scene besides it is sheer American railroading hawtness
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Wow. Seems every time you post some pics your layout just gets better! And that NP hawtness though! :drool:
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I love everything about this shot! You should submit it - or something similar - to Trackside Photos.
Your use of cut & fill topography is among the best I can recall ever seeing, and the ground cover highlights it very effectively.
Amen to that!
I'd buy a magazine with that on the cover.
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Wow. Seems every time you post some pics your layout just gets better! And that NP hawtness though! :drool:
Plenty of awesome sauce on that nothingness!
It's the Seinfeld Division of the Oregon Joint Line, a Layout About Nothing.
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That's why I love N Scale. enough said.
Rod.
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Your use of cut & fill topography is among the best I can recall ever seeing, and the ground cover highlights it very effectively.
I wholehearted agree. Excellent example of cut & fill and what can be done in N scale
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Geez - been quite a while since the last post. I filmed this time-lapse of action at Monument Yard at our June 13th session.
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Cool video. 8)
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Nice video. Too bad I couldn't make the op session.
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Chris Palmieri put together a nice op session report on his blog with far better photography of the layout then what I can do. http://meridianspeedway.weebly.com/2015-jun-np-ferris-ops-session.html
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Chris Palmieri put together a nice op session report on his blog with far better photography of the layout then what I can do. http://meridianspeedway.weebly.com/2015-jun-np-ferris-ops-session.html
Very nice report. I always enjoy seeing photos of your pike as I have a soft spot for the part of the world you are modeling. You're very skillful at incorporating expansive scenes into an operationally inteesting layout. BTW, Item II in the Appendix of the above blog has a nice overview of the railroad.
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I put together a quick layout tour video of the Oregon Joint Line.
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really great video! I noticed slide fence poles coming into Emigrant, but not in Picture Gorge? Are you planning to install any actual fencing there?
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That is a great video. I like how well the visual elements work together with your vision of the setting and operations.
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Holy crap! I never realized the layout was that large. Awesome 8)
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I like how you have a nice balance of yards, industries and scenic main line runs. Well done.
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really great video! I noticed slide fence poles coming into Emigrant, but not in Picture Gorge? Are you planning to install any actual fencing there?
I was wondering what the heck you were talking about when I realized that the photo in the opening credits was made before the Picture Gorge slide fence went in. It's there now - you can see it late in the video...
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Another good video about a great model railroad. My dad just bought a new Smart TV and this video did the honors for demonstrating the YouTube app. 8) He couldn't believe it when I told him you were just 25 miles down the road. Oh, and he was pretty psyched about the SmartTV too....introduced him to House of Cards so he'll be busy for a few weeks.
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I love your layout, your scenery and backdrops blend perfectly. Great video also.
Pity I live so far away.
Rod.
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Excellent overview. It is really helpful to have documents like this that give us a good sense of the overall layout. The whole pike is very cohesive, and nearly complete! I'm so impressed.
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Awesome video!!
I just wish I was closer, so I could frequent the layout ALOT more often. I agree with Doug,, a great model railroad!!
wyatt
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I'd love to run it at least once . . . .
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Awesome video!!
I just wish I was closer, so I could frequent the layout ALOT more often. I agree with Doug,, a great model railroad!!
wyatt
thanks Wyatt, does it look like you'll be able to make it up for the Ft Worth Layout Operations Day on Oct03?
For that matter anyone else lurking from the DFW area (or elsewhere if you want to travel) I am organizing a one day layout operations event for Oct03 - if you're interested in participating send me a PM.
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Not much to report lately in terms of visible projects and such as my focus has been on (sigh) layout maintenance and reliability.
Here's a video of our October 24 op session where I attempted to simulate a service meltdown (on purpose!). The more I work with the cartab system the more satisfied I am that I'll be able to easily create almost any operating scenario that I faced as a prototype yardmaster.
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Really cool Dean and well explained too.
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great video Dean, would love to learn more about your car tab system, perhaps another video??????? it was great having you work Winslow yard this weekend, hope to get to your layout soon. Gordon
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I was able to make a trip out to Oregon Joint Line territory in August to take some photo backdrops. Here's my first attempt.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5652/23209355365_6be9b5d8a9_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BmW1Kp)IMG_1331 (https://flic.kr/p/BmW1Kp) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5705/22815197377_ed9705485a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AL6Rj2)IMG_1339 (https://flic.kr/p/AL6Rj2) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Gosh! 8)
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Here's a quick YouTube video of how the backdrop came together.
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Very effective. I think this can work with careful color matching and I think you were able to do that.
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Nice video and a beautiful result.
I'm a big fan of photo backdrops. In my opion a photo backdrop beats a painted backdrop every time :)
Not meaning there are not a lot of good painted backdrops also. As yours @Scottl for instance.
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Very effective. It certainly raises the bar on how intense the effort needs to be for the foreground - any slapdash approach to 3D scenery will look that much worse... which is definitely NOT the case here. Outstanding execution overall. The thought put into creating two horizons is what makes it work, for sure.
My artist spouse agrees, "It's great!", she says. She further commented you might add a little gray (or reduce color saturation) and a slight blur to represent haze if you wanted to convey more depth. I don't know if I completely agree with her on that. I grew up in the desert... what haze? Sandstorms? ;)
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That passes the test in all respects.
It's impossible to tell where the 3D scenery stops and the background starts.
The perspective is correct from those views
The colors match.
Amazing job.
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Thanks for the kind words - I actually increased the color saturation a bit to better match the foreground elements in the backdrop to my actual scenery, but I see your wife's point on using muted distant elements to convey additional scene depth. If I were to do it over again I'd start with the photo backdrop and build the scenery to match. There was definitely some haze in the air the day I took the panorama as it was in the middle of forest fire season. In fact I got very lucky that the majority of the smoke from a major fire that popped up the day before blew slightly to the north of my target area or it would've been a wasted day...
Very effective. It certainly raises the bar on how intense the effort needs to be for the foreground - any slapdash approach to 3D scenery will look that much worse... which is definitely NOT the case here. Outstanding execution overall. The thought put into creating two horizons is what makes it work, for sure.
My artist spouse agrees, "It's great!", she says. She further commented you might add a little gray (or reduce color saturation) and a slight blur to represent haze if you wanted to convey more depth. I don't know if I completely agree with her on that. I grew up in the desert... what haze? Sandstorms? ;)
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[attachimg=1]
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I agree those backdrops have come out a treat. I too would like to see just a hint of haze to add distance.
Very nicely done.
Rod.
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Ok I will have to get stilts are the bar just keeps getting set higher and higher.
Awesome work Dean!!! Looks seamless!
Adios, Wyatt
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Not a whole lot of visual progress to report as I've been focused on layout functionality lately such as frog wiring and adding power districts (I'm up to 7!).
One of my regular operators always talks about how several smaller layouts are contained within my layout, so I decided to surprise my crew with yet another layout within the layout. The Condon, Kinzua, & Southern Railroad was an actual shortline in Oregon Joint Line territory which lasted up until 1977. With some layout room space opening up after the construction of the new dispatcher's office I decided to add the CK&S to the layout, connecting to the Oregon Joint Line main just south of Silvies yard. Essentially it's a shelf layout which will eventually host a large lumber mill (to the right) including a log dump, chip track, and lumber loading tracks. The track to the left extends back six feet or so into hidden staging.
Operations will see the CK&S crew pulling a loaded log train into town behind their sound equipped Atlas S-2, swapping out log loads for empties, sorting out the interchange cuts left by the UP Burns Local and NP Silvies Switcher, spotting and pulling the lumber mill and grain elevator, sorting out the NP pulls from the UP pulls, and returning back to the "woods" with their empty log train. Later on the UP and NP will make their interchanges.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1479/26598504796_d866070120_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GwqhNh)IMG_2166 (https://flic.kr/p/GwqhNh) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
check out my youtube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4YwHx6p9-1C_0Q_pkofAMg
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The CK&S looks like it will be another fun job like the ON&E. Can't wait to give it try at a future op session.
I also need to work up the courage to try dispatching sometime in the future too. :D
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/>Here's a quick video I put together of some Oregon Joint Line action - my first attempt at using prototype sound. Let me know what you think.
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Both shots were very good, but that first one is top notch ! If I were to look away, then back at video again, I'd have to rethink if I was watching a model or prototype.
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Both turned out good. But the SP SD35s just don't say SP to me. You need to run some SD45 and Tunnel Motors :P
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Coldriver, your scenery rocks! Very well done.
Otto K.
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Dean -
That first scene with the SP is really spectacular. Nicely done as always.
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Both turned out good. But the SP SD35s just don't say SP to me. You need to run some SD45 and Tunnel Motors :P
Yes I know - but thought you'd be happy to see that after several years I at least broke down and got the headlights working on the SD35's!
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Awesome scenes. The first needed some doppler effect to my ear, and the engines seem to dominate the noise for too long after passing with the train moving at that speed, but I focused on soaking in the whole scene. Looks real enough.
This bar is so high I am not modeling any Idaho Belt scenes in Oregon. It's already been done!
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So, at first, I thought I was watching a video of the prototype.
Then I heard naturally aspirated GP9s instead of turbocharged SD35s.
But seriously, your layout is gorgeous, and even better in motion.
I agree with the previous comments, but also think that you need a little bit more ambient sounds: specifically the river and rail noise.
It's an awesome start though.
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Coldriver
Outstanding video, loved the sound as well. Your post led me to really dig in to your layout report and other videos. I am really impressed. Not only is the scenery great but I am loving the fact that it allows you to run so many different roads. I am looking forward to your next video.
Chris
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So, at first, I thought I was watching a video of the prototype.
Then I heard naturally aspirated GP9s instead of turbocharged SD35s.
But seriously, your layout is gorgeous, and even better in motion.
I agree with the previous comments, but also think that you need a little bit more ambient sounds: specifically the river and rail noise.
It's an awesome start though.
Appreciate everyone's feedback! I had two choices - turbocharged 645's or nat. asp. 567's, so I went with the 567's. The problem with the minimal-Doppler, over noisy-locos is that the original video from the sound follows the locos as they pass (pan shot), so the effect of passing is diminished. As the "Part I" designation hints, I plan additional videos which will hopefully improve over time. All hail N Scale!
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Finally started getting around to applying scenery to the Condon, Kinzua, & Southern Railway scene I added earlier this year. I decided that ugly seam on the backdrop wasn't worth coving (at least for now) since it was hard to reach and it's not in an often visited location on the layout. The train is pulling in from CK&S logging line staging, with the wye providing the connection to the Oregon Joint Line at Humboldt Jct. Yep, that's still my stand-in US Army Baldwin - I've purchased a sound-equipped S2 but haven't painted it for the CK&S yet.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8038/29495555391_3cf3848ff9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LWqr1t)Kinzua (https://flic.kr/p/LWqr1t) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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looks great Dean, can not wait to see the layout again and this time operate. Both myself and Eddie Adcock are coming up for Dallas interchange in October, yours was our first choice. Starting to work on my own tab system, have about half the tabs made so far, looking forward to operating with your system. Gordon / Santa Fe-All the way
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Dean, Love the progress. Really incredible look with the backdrops.
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Reminds me a little bit of Plummer, ID.
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looks great Dean, can not wait to see the layout again and this time operate. Both myself and Eddie Adcock are coming up for Dallas interchange in October, yours was our first choice. Starting to work on my own tab system, have about half the tabs made so far, looking forward to operating with your system. Gordon / Santa Fe-All the way
Good deal Gordon, I've signed up to host two sessions and if I appear completely frazzled by restaging for the second session then you'll know that car tab systems on a large layout are a big mistake...
With any luck the Dallas interchange sessions will be the last to use "not in the correct era" track warrant dispatching. We're preparing to plunge headfirst into timetable and trainorder!
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Reminds me a little bit of Plummer, ID.
Very much so :D
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/263926/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/455754/
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Damn it, Dean! That's hot.
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The east central Oregon territory that provides the Oregon Joint Line setting is a hard place to scratch out a living with many abandoned homes and ranches dotting the landscape. I recently finally got around to modeling one of these signature scenes just south of Dayville. I made the landscape and backdrop nice and bleached out to reinforce the idea of living in an inhospitable area. I've explored many of these houses and I'm always moved when I see traces of the kids who lived there, frozen in time in their bedroom wallpaper and floor coverings, often with height marks on the walls where their growth was charted. So I added rusty swing set in the front yard as a nod to those kids.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7467/30142625111_1c44a1952f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MVAQhX)Abandoned House 2 (https://flic.kr/p/MVAQhX) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8278/29598768163_3e4e40dd0c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/M6xqz2)Abandoned House (https://flic.kr/p/M6xqz2) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Just passed through Dayville and John Day a week or so ago and yea....that's exactly what a bunch of the homesteads out there look like. +1!
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Beautiful! Talk about capturing the essence of the scene! Very very nice....
Otto K.
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Chillingly beautiful!
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It's a sign of great modeling when the viewer can put themselves into the scene. I agree with Ed, chilling. Well, well done.
TomO
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This weekend the DFW layout owners hosted out-of-towners from Houston, Austin, and Oklahoma for the every three year DFW Interchange operating weekend. I had a blast hosting op sessions on both Saturday and Sunday morning.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5645/30665786436_8fde14cc0e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NHQaVN)IMG_4932 (https://flic.kr/p/NHQaVN) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Great Northern Yard Crew Bruce Alcock patiently waits for Northern Pacific Yardmaster Gordon Bliss to get the hell out of the way so he can finish his transfer run to the Oregon & Northeastern Railroad.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5793/30402557040_a44d172259_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Njz3ZW)IMG_4944 (https://flic.kr/p/Njz3ZW) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
For those of you trying to plan your aisle widths this is what four feet looks like. Perhaps model railroaders need to allow a bit extra beyond ergonomic norms...
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5464/30402553090_a32a9c983b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Njz2PQ)IMG_4946 (https://flic.kr/p/Njz2PQ) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Dispatcher Chris King has temporarily abandoned his office to see what the heck has thrown a monkey wrench into his perfectly laid plans for getting a fleet of three southbounds past the local working at Emigrant. It turns out the local crew had exceeded their authority to switch the Basalt ballast pit on single track, which blocked a passenger train, coal empty, and work train for several minutes! Here the local has finally ducked out of the way at Emigrant siding with the pulls from the ballast pit and is preparing to switch the Hines Lumber mill. The UP caboose is at the end of today's especially long UP Burns Turn which is still hanging out of the Burns staging track long after the UP crew has tied up.
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I love it when a layout comes alive - even when that means it comes to a screeching halt. ;)
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Dean,
The layout ran great and I think everyone had a great time. That yardmaster had it easy until the CEO and the GN yardmaster and the two other trains showed up in such a short time :scared: Sorry I had to send the passenger train down yard track #2, but it is 1969 and Amtrak wasn't around yet, did not want to delay it. The yard did flow very well even with all that traffic at once, goes to show you that your prototype knowledge and laying out the yard works well. Our group talked about how well the layout ran on the drive back home. You have a great looking and great operating railroad. :D
Gordon Bliss - Santa Fe / All the way
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Gordon: I was in the control tower at Pasco Yard one night, with my father, the retarder operator, when Amtrak was run through the yard. Pasco yard runs north-south, north being timetable east. The mainline is on the west side, with a "running rail" track between it and the yard, and another on the east side, along that edge of the yard. They were the North and South Running Rails, but I can't remember which was which. Based on timetable directions, the one on the west would be the north side.
In any case, there was some problem between the Pasco passenger station, south (TT west) of the yard, and the north end of the yard. The eastbound Empire Builder was sent up the east-side running rail, around the departure yard and bowl tracks, behind the tower/yard office, and out the hump leads, rejoining the mainline at the north end of the leads, almost to Glade Crossing, where the approach signal for the yard was located.
This would have been in 72 or 73, so your solution was quite prototypical.
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For the farm scene: is that an abandoned grade crossing leading to the house? If so, excellent!
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nkalanga, thanks for info and supporting my decision. I model the Santa Fe in 1953 and we do not like to run our passengers behind schedule. When that passenger train showed up, every track in the yard plus the main was full. And the CEO was standing there too! I cleared one track(track#2) and ran the passenger thru the yard and back to the main and crossed over just before the station. then took the rest of the session to clean up my mess!!!!!! lots of fun!!!!!! Gordon
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nkalanga, thanks for info and supporting my decision. I model the Santa Fe in 1953 and we do not like to run our passengers behind schedule. When that passenger train showed up, every track in the yard plus the main was full. And the CEO was standing there too! I cleared one track(track#2) and ran the passenger thru the yard and back to the main and crossed over just before the station. then took the rest of the session to clean up my mess!!!!!! lots of fun!!!!!! Gordon
During my time as a yardmaster and trainmaster in the Seattle area we certainly ran passenger trains through the yard from time to time due to derailments, mechanical issues, MOW activity, or plain old operational screw-ups - perhaps 2 or 3 times per year which equates to maybe 1 out of every 500 times. With Gordon at 1 out of 2 so far we'll certainly be watching him closely the next time he yardmasters to make sure he stays within typical prototype decision making ratios. To be fair the dispatcher should have let him know what was coming so he could plan accordingly - some slack will be granted. And I will relate that Mr Bliss left the yard in amazing shape - essentially he did the work of two yard jobs by himself - not bad for his first time!
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For the farm scene: is that an abandoned grade crossing leading to the house? If so, excellent!
+1 to you - I was wondering if anyone would catch that. The intention was to reinforce the idea that this house would never be occupied again - the crossing was yanked, fences were built without any gates. No one's ever coming back....
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Dean, thanks for hosting another great op session the other week! Wish I didn't have to leave early. Here are a few shots from working helper service.
(http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/oregon-joint-line.128464/full)
(http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/oregon-joint-line.128461/full)
(http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/oregon-joint-line.128459/full)
(http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/oregon-joint-line.128460/full)
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Dean, thanks for hosting another great op session the other week! Wish I didn't have to leave early. Here are a few shots from working helper service.
Nice shots Marshall - it's always interesting to see the different photo angles people use - seems like I tend to get stuck in the same old ruts. This was a new record for op session participation with 13 + me. We had a Dispatcher, NP Monument Yard engine, two Monument industrial switchers, GN Dayville Yard engine, NP Scanlon Yard engine, Oregon & Northeastern engine, Condon, Kinzua, & Southern engine, an assigned helper engine (Marshall), and four road crews! Despite a rocky start things went pretty well overall! The trainmaster (me) was kept very busy!
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5671/30443574603_554b5048dd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Noch6i)IMG_5099 (https://flic.kr/p/Noch6i) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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So, how did certain first timers enjoy the layout? :facepalm:
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So, how did certain first timers enjoy the layout? :facepalm:
things went well - a repeat invitation was requested...
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I threw a wrench at the dispatcher by filling Fossil siding, a key meeting point, end to end with stored 40' boxcars.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5795/31121654202_41776e63bd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pq7BwS)IMG_5098 (https://flic.kr/p/Pq7BwS) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
After suffering through some significant congestion a crew and lite power were dispatched to clear off the siding by dragging the whole works into staging. Here's a video (with dubbed sound) of the Extra South climbing the 2.2% grade.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src=" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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That's evil. I like it.
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That's evil. I like it.
Amazing that such prominently appropriate power was available for the job. Shoulda mad em use 4 or 5 RS units or Geeps instead.
That scene looks dynamite.
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That's evil. I like it.
Yeah it was. It was only the second time for the Chris to dispatch the railroad. :D Dean does a good job shaking things up op session to op session keeping us operators on our toes and things interesting.
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Looks like the ones I (barely) remember from the late 60s. By the time I had a camera, and could get close enough to take pictures regularly, the merger had occurred, so there would have been a few GN and CB&Q cars, but the trains still looked much the same, and the eastern Washington scenery isn't much different.
Of course, they didn't need helpers around Pasco, so it would probably have had just the two lead units. On the other hand, an SD45 and Geep wouldn't have been an unusual combination. Or an SD and an F, A or B, for that matter.
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Looks like the ones I (barely) remember from the late 60s. By the time I had a camera, and could get close enough to take pictures regularly, the merger had occurred, so there would have been a few GN and CB&Q cars, but the trains still looked much the same, and the eastern Washington scenery isn't much different.
Of course, they didn't need helpers around Pasco, so it would probably have had just the two lead units. On the other hand, an SD45 and Geep wouldn't have been an unusual combination. Or an SD and an F, A or B, for that matter.
Similar experiences for me on the west side of the Cascades growing up in Hoquiam straddling the BN merger date sans camera. From a power perspective, it wouldn't make prototypical sense for me to have helpers on a train of empties, but whether I call it an empty repo move or a load of export wheat it won't change the N scale physics of needing extra power to make my hill...
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Great video! Love those old 36' stock cars mixed in...
Otto K.
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Fantastic scenery and structures!
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Maybe one of the SDs was having problems? Clogged sanders, maybe?
Maybe some of the cars had been stored too long and the brakes were sticking?
Maybe the Geep was needed somewhere else, and rather than haul it dead-in-tow, someone decided it would be a good chance to train a helper crew, without risking a stalled train blocking the main?
There's always a "prototypical" explanation, as they've done almost everything than can be done, at least once.
I'm sure you already know this, but for those not familiar with the NP, a lot of NP's old stock cars made it into the late 70s, and they actually "modernized" some in the late 60s, removing the roofwalks and shortening the ladders. They hauled a lot more than animals in their later years, including ties and grain. Nail plywood over the inside and they worked as well as a boxcar for grain. The open sides made them perfect for freshly creosoted ties, as the fumes could escape, but the ties were protected from thieves. I don't know about 36 ft cars, but they had a lot of old 40 ft.
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With work on my lumber mill scene winding down I've been able to start hanging some of the 75' worth of backdrops I purchased from Trainjunkies.com. The backdrop for this scene was a panorama I took in the Cathedral Rock area of the John Day Fossil Beds National Monument in August 2015. I'm pretty happy on the color match - the scenery/backdrop transition is just below the treeline. Pictured is the Union Pacific Burns Local entering the Northern Pacific siding at Emigrant.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/685/33034725271_b9b2ce61b6_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SkaAUP)IMG_5642 (https://flic.kr/p/SkaAUP) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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I think I'm homesick...
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I'm pretty happy on the color match - the scenery/backdrop transition is just below the treeline.
Looks pretty good to me from 3000 miles away. I agree with you on the color match.
fixed quote tag -gfh
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I think I'm homesick...
Lol, what a compliment that is!
And I agree, splendid! Great job of blending the five D's: the two and the three 8)
Otto K.
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To put it straightforwardly...
Dean, your layout has the best blending of scenery to background I have ever seen.
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To put it straightforwardly...
Dean, your layout has the best blending of scenery to background I have ever seen.
Thanks for that - but I should confess that I only have about photos hung for about 10% of the layout. The rest is still my rather iffy artwork :P
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Now that I'm nearly finished hanging my 75' of photo backdrops, I put together this video chronicling my trials and tribulations and (fortunately) successes.
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Now that I'm nearly finished hanging my 75' of photo backdrops, I put together this video chronicling my trials and tribulations and (fortunately) successes.
Nice video! Can't wait to see the new backdrops in person. :D
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Amazing. Id like to see a massive articulated cruising through that scenery.
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Those backdrops look awesome, great job with the video also.
Rod.
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Damn!!!!....... Dean, the photo backdrops are the bomb, and your color matching is spot on. I cannot wait to visit your layout again!!!! Great job, Gordon
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(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4288/35060705173_fb711e8c35_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Vqch9M)2017-07-09 20-55-47 (A,Radius8,Smoothing4) (https://flic.kr/p/Vqch9M) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Since I've been taking quite a few Helicon photos lately I thought I'd post some scenes from the OJL that I don't think I've shared here. This is the town of Silvies, Oregon which is meant to be a classic small railroad mountain crew change town similar to Avery, ID on the Milwaukee, Dunsmuir, CA on the SP, Lillooet, BC on BC Rail, Portola, CA on the WP, and Huntington, OR on the UP. As is typical of eastern Oregon most of the structures are wood and towns are somewhat spread out since development came after the arrival of the automobile. I've tried to keep a somewhat believable (by model railroad standards) ratio of residential to commercial structures (there's an additional house just out of view). Besides being a crew change point Silvies is also a base for helper operations and a gathering yard for a handful of locals. In this scene Northern Pacific train 656, which originated on the Western Pacific at Stockton, CA, is pulling out of the visible south staging yard called Harney and into Silvies Yard where tonnage will be reduced and a helper added for the 1.8% climb to Snowline.
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Awesome Dean! You're achieving everything you have set out to do.
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Silver and Orange WP GP-35s were a common sight in Pasco in the mid 70s. I don't remember seeing a GP-40, but they were probably there as well. Certainly looks like the trains I remember at the time.
Just one thing stands out, though. If the 4th car is an NP GS gon woodchip conversion, it probably should be almost as tall as the chip car in front of it. All of the pictures I have show the extension to be about 1/3 taller than the original gon's sides, rather than shorter. They all seemed to be plate B cars, though, where many of the GN's chip cars were plate C.
Of course, if it ISN"T an NP chip car, I'll take your word that it's right. I've seen pictures of the SP sugar beet conversions, and many of them had lower extensions than the NP/GN/SP&S chip conversions.
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I love this railroad. It reeks (in a good way) of the intermountain west.
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I love this railroad. It reeks (in a good way) of the intermountain west.
Awesome Dean! You're achieving everything you have set out to do.
thanks so much Gary and Bryan. I'll be in both of your fair burgs next week, but unfortunately won't have time for layout visits or get-togethers (wedding in Olympia, three days on Vancouver Island, one day in Vancouver proper, one day in Seattle, all with family in tow). I swear I'll make a proper visit sometime soon though!
NKalanga - it's actually a Western Pacific chip car. Suspect some of your observation stems from the "something's not quite right" feel of empty woodchips and lumber loads moving from California to the PNW. I turned the train on the south end staging loop without properly swapping open forest products loads to head back northbound for the photo. Was curious if anyone would catch that...
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71 F and sunny in Vancouver today. 8) Enjoy!
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No, the direction didn't matter, as I've seen empty chip cars going in all directions. Pasco had a lot of chip cars, with a large paper mill south of town, so they were common, even though we had no trees or sawmills. I don't know that I've ever seen a WP chip car, though, as they didn't come into Pasco, and I haven't paid much attention to the WP.
The odd thing was that we also had log cars going through. Since all of the sawmills I knew in eastern Washington were in forested areas, why would they cut the logs in one forest, then ship them across a desert, to another forest?
California lumber loads weren't uncommon in the Northwest, as California tended to have a different mix of species, and lumber yards stocked wood from all over.
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were the log cars headed to the coast for export? I remember, for example, ships being loaded with logs in Puget Sound, around the turn of the century (no jokes please about which century that might be...)
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The odd thing was that we also had log cars going through. Since all of the sawmills I knew in eastern Washington were in forested areas, why would they cut the logs in one forest, then ship them across a desert, to another forest?
Because logging remained a transient industry for the longest time, before sustainable forestry came into practice. Numerous mills would open and operate while a forest was dense and they closed one by one as it thinned. Eventually a forest would get so thinned that no mills could be economically sustained, but that didn't stop harvesting of what was left and the logs head out to another locale for processing via rail or truck. Of course, "thin" is kind of a misnomer in modern times, as a forest can be lush but harvesting limits could be in place for a number of reasons or policies can be in place that keep logs from coming out of Federal and State-owned forests.
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George: I doubt it, because they came through one or two at a time, in general merchandise trains. Besides, the west side has most of the big trees, and I don't know why anyone would want to pay to ship the east (dry) side logs overseas. I'm sure these were going to an east side mill, probably in the Yakima area, but don't know why. Oddly, in 21 years, I don't remember ever seeing a log TRUCK in the Tri-Cities, not even an empty one passing through.
Sirenwerks: By the 1970s most of the Northwest's forests were being managed fairly well, if not "sustainably", by today's standards. The Northwest loggers figured out in the first part of the 20th century that they HAD to change their ways, or go out of business. They couldn't "cut and run" because they'd run out of room to run!
Many of Washington's forests are either national forests, or private timberlands, and both are managed for long-term production, although often in different ways. Even most of the clearcuts are managed, with the idea being to cut them at a rate that allows the trees to regrow as fast as they're cut. Clearcutting on the east side is environmentally preferable, in many ways, because it mimics the way the forests burn naturally. It's more controversial on the west (wet) side, because those forests tend to burn less, and in smaller areas.
The big timber companies clearcut their west side holdings, but they're basically "farming" trees. Plant seedlings, thin them in a couple decades, using the small stuff for whatever can be made from it. Thin again in a couple more decades, then clearcut the mature trees, and start over.
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Oregon is in a slightly different boat though. It has a significantly higher percentage of private (company) lands and the harvested forest Federal lands are equally split between the USFS and BLM (my employer), where the USFS is the big Federal player in Washington. The BLM lands are a mix of revested O&C land grant property, reconveyed Coos Bay Wagon Road grant lands, reclaimed Land Utilization Project lands, and a few other categories and are controlled by a unique set of specific Federal laws. The O&C lands are former Oregon & California RR holdings that were taken back from the O&C/SP by Congress when the railroad refused to distribute them per the land grant agreement and given to the BLM to manage in trust for the people. As with most Federal land grants, the O&C and CBWR lands come in the annoying patchwork of plots. The proceeds of harvesting of these lands, which is contracted to private companies, are split between Federal coffers, the State of Oregon, and the 18 counties the land is spread across.
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It's interesting to read these posts about logging in Oregon. We have a fire going on in southern Utah that was spreading at approx 10,000 acres a day for the first 3 or 4 days because of density of the forest, that and a high percentage of dead trees due to a nasty pine beetle infestation. It's now at just over 71,000 acres and 85% contained. The biggest reason for containment is that it had nothing left to burn in the direction it was going. A lot of people were blaming the USFS and BLM for mismanagement, which may have had something to do with the spread but really the guy who decided to burn the weeds around is property with a weed torch... during a long dry spel...l and high temps had everything to do with it starting. :facepalm:
https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/5253/
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The USFS and the BLM are certainly not to blame for the cause but they are more than a little culpable for the spread.
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The USFS and the BLM are certainly not to blame for the cause but they are more than a little culpable for the spread.
I totally agree with that and changed my comment to better illustrate that.
Jason
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There are more than 70 active wildfires as of today in the west (four more in the east) and fire season's just begun. Between the serious damage the bark beetle has done in the west (creating a dangerous level of fuels in some places that there is no funding from Congress to address); the limited number of wildland firefighters (lots of competition between agencies these days as applicant pools start to dwindle), and the stupidity of people (the proportion of wildland fires caused by humans is growing exponentially) agencies have their hands full.
(This is personal opinion, not that of the BLM or its affiliate agencies) But one of the solutions to the lack of funding problem, to address years of extreme fire suppression, is to let fires burn, clearing out the extra fuels and starting from scratch afterwards. As with all things in a civilization, sometimes there are sacrifices for the greater good. Something people should consider before building that multi-million dollar house on that pristine but removed wooded lot. If we let the problem continue, and communities near forests in the west continue to grow as they are, future fires will be even more catastrophic when they not only tear through the homes on the hillsides but interface with real population density centers.
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[/drift] Interesting conversation, but let's return the thread to Dean now. Maybe he'll post some more photos for us. :lol:
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Dean, I saw this pic on railpictures.net which made me think of the GN transfer to the O&NE on your layout.
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/623222/
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One of only two dynamic-brake equipped SD-9s bought by the GN, 598 and 599, too BN as 6125/26. The 6125 came to Pasco sometime before 1983 to work the hump yard. BN 6109 and 6116 arrived in the early 70s, 6109 in simplified green and orange, 6116 in BSB. They were also repainted sometime in the 70s, and were still there in 1983.
598 and 599 were both originally assigned to southern Oregon. Why the BN sent 598/6125 to Pasco I have no idea, as the DBs were useless in yard duty.
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The pleasantly pungent aromas of fresh cut Ponderosa Pine and sagebrush fills the air at the Hines Mill at Emigrant, Oregon. I've made a permanent assignment of Spokane, Portland, & Seattle Alco Roadswitchers and caboose to the Emigrant Local. No doubt forest products structures enthusiasts will recognize the kit as N Scale Architect's Long Valley Lumber.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4321/36020963542_e7290b8524_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WT3Rvy)Hines Lumber Mill at Emigrant (https://flic.kr/p/WT3Rvy) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
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Really like that, thanks for putting me onto N Scale Architect
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Maybe you should do some kinda scent under the layout in that area so it will smell like fresh cut lumber :D
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Cedar bedding from the local pet shop? Cheap, safe, and when the smell fades, biodegradable.
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Cedar bedding from the local pet shop? Cheap, safe, and when the smell fades, biodegradable.
Cedar and pine don't smell the same though.
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Cedar and Pine smell to critique? A new level of picking nits, but I think there are enough pine scents out there you could easily just put one of those candles/warmers, etc. under the layout. Better stick with something other than candles, or you might accidentally mode a forest fire, though. :o
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The pleasantly pungent aromas of fresh cut pine and sagebrush fills the air at the Hines Mill at Emigrant. I've made a permanent assignment of Spokane, Portland, & Seattle Alco Roadswitchers and caboose to the Emigrant Local. No doubt forest products structures enthusiasts will recognize the kit as N Scale Architect's Long Valley Lumber.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4321/36020963542_e7290b8524_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WT3Rvy)Hines Lumber Mill at Emigrant (https://flic.kr/p/WT3Rvy) by Dean Ferris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92891042@N06/), on Flickr
Looks great, I feel like I can hear the mill running.
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Awesome! Love the mill, nice shade of green too. As for the pine smell, how about one of them car fresheners shaped like a little pine tree :trollface:
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Awesome! Love the mill, nice shade of green too. As for the pine smell, how about one of them car fresheners shaped like a little pine tree :trollface:
Oh man that's great, I needed a good belly laugh! I've looked at candles, incense, scented soaps, and fresh cut sawdust, but I never thought about that idea. Perhaps they make them a little better these days than the one I hung from my rear view mirror back in high school...
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This is what I'm going to use
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VFESFC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T1_6Z9Ezb8M068EC
I really like the scent they have.
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Cedar and Pine smell to critique?
Have you never lived in Oregon?
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Western pines smell nice. Western cedar and Douglas fir smell nice.
I live in eastern Kentucky. Eastern pines smell like turpentine. Oak smells like vinegar. Appalachian sawmills don't smell anything like Northwestern ones.
However, I will admit that Hines, Oregon probably has few, if any, cedars. There are cedars east of the Cascades, but they tend to be on the wet side of mountain ranges, such as in northern Idaho and northwest Montana.
If you have a good locally owned lumber yard nearby, maybe you could buy some FRESH Northwest boards, and grind a small piece to sawdust. That would smell exactly like what you want. Some of the lumber I bought, years ago, for my benchwork, had a nice strong "Northwest" odor. Or have someone in eastern Oregon mail you a box of wood chips from Hines?
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I appreciate everyone's ideas (seriously!) and you've got me to thinking about taking things even farther. While adding pine smells at the four forest products industries on the layout would be a great sensory addition the larger concern would be making the entire room smell faintly like sagebrush and juniper which are the predominant aromas of Eastern Oregon. And Eastern Oregon is bone dry compared to North Texas - does adding a dehumidifier to suck the moisture out of the air during sessions seem like taking things too far! How about adjusting the thermostat to reflect winter or summer (within reason - perhaps a range of 62 to 80)?
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I wouldn't adjust the thermostat unless you want to model broken and sun-kinked rails. The dehumidifier might be a good idea, because humidity changes can have a bigger effect on benchwork, and track, than normal household temperature changes.
You might be able to find juniper scent in an air freshener or scenting device. I doubt that you'd find "sagebrush", but wouldn't bet against it, considering what IS out there. I saw one today for "fresh water fragrance". I didn't realize that "fresh water" HAD a fragrance!
Another thing to consider is that a lot of what people think of as "pine" smell is from the needles and young branches. You wouldn't have that at the sawmill. A mill cutting pine doesn't smell the same as a pine forest, unless it's actually IN the forest. Many aren't, because the trees around them have been cut, or they were built outside the forest proper to start with.
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A low tech way to adjust temps? Open the damn windows. You're welcome. Not sure if a few hours of actual temps would affect much, but don't know for sure. Long time exposure to high temps on my garage layout (see below) did kink the rails.
Seriously, though, when I had an earlier version of the IHB (was actually Missouri Terminal back in those days, until Atlas came out with IHB locos.....) in my townhouse garage, I had portable AC for summer, but no heater for winter (those things scare me).
More than once, an operator with a baggy sweater would catch rolling stock and knock it over when reaching for the back areas. So, I vote against going too cool for practical reasons.
And, given the personal hygiene of at least a few model railroaders, although you seem to have a good crew, don't really think you want to get things too hot and sweaty either.......frankly, above the garage and 10-20 people in the layout room, it probably gets warm enough naturally.
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For anyone interested, here's a picture of the Edward Hines Lumber Co mill in Hines. This is what I tend to think of for a Northwestern mill, although mills like the one modeled in Emigrant weren't unheard of.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/1/2673-310717004354.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action-gallery;sa=view&id=1747)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hines_lumber_mill,_Oregon.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hines_lumber_mill,_Oregon.jpg)
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I appreciate everyone's ideas (seriously!) and you've got me to thinking about taking things even farther. While adding pine smells at the four forest products industries on the layout would be a great sensory addition the larger concern would be making the entire room smell faintly like sagebrush and juniper which are the predominant aromas of Eastern Oregon. And Eastern Oregon is bone dry compared to North Texas - does adding a dehumidifier to suck the moisture out of the air during sessions seem like taking things too far! How about adjusting the thermostat to reflect winter or summer (within reason - perhaps a range of 62 to 80)?
I should be heading out to Prineville in the next month and the agency I work for has been pulling out a lot of sage and juniper off grazing lands, so maybe I can score you a trash bag of two full. Now, how to get it to Texas...
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If you don't need it for scent, sagebrush also makes great cottonwood trees. You could probably sell it by the Priority Mail box-full for that!
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I spent way too much time putting together this video of the Oregon & Northeastern logging railroad. Hopefully you'll take a glance - at least to hear my cringe-inducing singing at the beginning...
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You need a manufacturer to crank out some Baldwins.
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You need a manufacturer to crank out some Baldwins.
Yeah, I was definitely on the list of those hoping for Atlas's new release to be AS-616's. Not only did the Oregon & Northwestern use them, but Rayonier used them on their logging railroad in my hometown of Hoquiam, WA as well. I imagine seeing those in N scale is a long shot.
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GREAT video Dean,
It is awesome to see a layout operate like the prototype and look so good doing. those backdrops look awesome. Hope to get up there again soon to operate. I am having a "training" session next week for my club to go over the basic railroad rules and how to block cars. And on the passenger side the basic consist orders. This is about my 4 session with the tabs and I really like them, I am trying a small strip of foam back double side tape to help keep the tabs on the tank cars and smooth roof passenger cars.
keep up the great work. Gordon
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Dean, very cool video....outstanding job.
That OJL intro tune is very 70's, love it. (well, very "late 60's" I suppose...still holding out hope that you might mix in some Cascade Green in an ops session eventually. :trollface: )
Doug
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In every way: content, production, modeling...outstanding.
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Great video Dean!
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Thanks for the nice video Dean, enjoyed that!
That gives me some ideas.
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Thanks all for the kind feedback. Originally I actually gave some thought to composing an entire Oregon Joint Line song :facepalm: but ultimately settled on scratchbuilding all those catchy (hopefully) beats you hear in the background.
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My last video featuring the Oregon & Northeastern was so well received that I decided to make another one on a day in the life of Silvies Yard. I'm really trying to focus on explaining what's going on based on my many years as a prototype switchman, yardmaster, and trainmaster. I'm well aware of all the mind-numbing op session videos out there on YouTube so I've really kept things moving at a good pace to (hopefully) keep people's attention.
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Great video Dean and really thorough explanation. Love the progress you're making.
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Another great video Dean!!!! love the yard operations. Silves Yard looks like a great challenge, I will have to try it next time I am up. And don't you know better than to hold up the Santa Fe train :o LOL....Awesome operating layout!!!!!!! Gordon / Santa Fe-All the Way
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Great video. Looks like alot of fun to operate!
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I love yard ops.
Hopefully I can work my way up from the Monument Tramp to one of the busier yards. If I can keep up. :scared:
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Wow! That was excellent work, all the way around. Thank you!
Jim
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Dean, fantastic video about Silvies. Thanks for the effort to put it together and share it.
Great seeing you at the show yesterday and hope I can make it out sometime.
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Great seeing you at the show yesterday and hope I can make it out sometime.
There was a show yesterday? Where? How did I miss it? :?
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Loving the video.
So far I've noticed one curious thing.
It seems like the yard crew keeps moving cars that are already set into each siding. Presumably, those cars would've had their handbrakes set since the yard is on a grade. Your poor brakeman will be killing himself constantly climbing the ladders to apply and knock the brakes off.
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Oh, also, I really do love the video.
It reminds me of the hectic old days of running the vest pocket Ridgely Yard on Lee's old WM.
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Fine video of action at Silves Dean. What method do you use to keep track of car movement? I don't see tabs on the cars. Car cars, switch lists? I'm weighing options for Brittain Yard. I'd like to do switch lists but don't want to turn the session into a clerking exercise.
A comic aside: While I was watching the video our cat jumped into my lap. She immediately spied the little freight cars racing back and forth during the sped up switching moves and watched intently. She'd relax when the movement went back to normal speed, then watch closely again when the speed picked up. Funny little animal. She probably watched more of the yard ops video than many humans can stand. :D
Steve
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There was a show yesterday? Where? How did I miss it? :?
Yes, a small one in SE Ft Worth, part of a club. Doug and I set up joint tables to sell off our used stuff. Dean came by and should have much better speed matched locos in the next video, based on his one purchase from us......
Bad news, small crowd. Good news, Doug and I were two of only 3 N scale vendors, so we did good biz. Not hard with a captive audience and a willingness to give things away at lower than lowest EBay prices. :P
Synopsis - You didn't miss much. See you at Plano, or maybe sooner in a non show environment.
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Loving the video.
So far I've noticed one curious thing.
It seems like the yard crew keeps moving cars that are already set into each siding. Presumably, those cars would've had their handbrakes set since the yard is on a grade. Your poor brakeman will be killing himself constantly climbing the ladders to apply and knock the brakes off.
The thing about hand brakes is that most people assume they're either applied or not. But you can tie a loose brake (what we referred to as a "stinger") which applies enough pressure to keep the car from rolling on a slight grade but still allows the wheels to roll if an engine ties on (you tighten the chain, but not that tight). So in the case of Silvies, you might tie a stinger on the first car into a track and then just kick cars on top of it. As the track filled up the stinger might not be enough to keep the track from rolling so you'd just tie another stinger or two until they stopped rolling. You might drag a car with a "stinger" applied around the whole shift if it made your job easier - noisy as hell and not the best for brake shoe wear but it might keep a switchman from having to constantly climb ladders to apply or release brakes. If you lost track of which cars had stingers applied you'd just listen for the brake squeal.
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Fine video of action at Silves Dean. What method do you use to keep track of car movement? I don't see tabs on the cars. Car cars, switch lists? I'm weighing options for Brittain Yard. I'd like to do switch lists but don't want to turn the session into a clerking exercise.
I actually use car tabs but I pulled them off for the video. A friend of mine put together a great explanation of how I use them https://meridianspeedway.weebly.com/car-tabs-on-np-oregon-joint-line.html
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If you're switching from the uphill end of a yard, and need to keep the cars from rolling out the other end, you can also use skates. The Pasco Yard use to use them on the bowl tracks, to keep humped cars from rolling out the far end, until they installed small spring-loaded retarders on each track.
When I was VERY young my father worked the "skate job", before he became the night shift retarder operator. It was not a fun job in the winter, because skates are heavy, you had to constantly dodge cars, and were out in the weather most of the time. They did have a "skate shanty", with a coal stove, where the men could warm up during slow times.
It would actually be possible to make N scale skates, from very thin brass, if one wanted to go to the trouble.
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geez - didn't realize it'd been so long since the last post... Here's my latest operations video highlighting Monument Yard which is the largest yard on the layout. If you've ever gotten bored to tears by operating session videos that move at a snails pace and have no description of what's going on, give this one a try (it even has a cliffhanger!).
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Watched it last night and loved it.
I think you've definitely captured the flavor of being a real yardmaster...
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Lol, the end of the trick is much too stressful, a little too much like the real world. :D
Nice work!
Otto K.
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Man, I was watching that video in order to relax and take my mind off of entitled, annoying customers! :lol:
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This railroad has put the Idaho/Oregon Belt out of business.
Superb. Simply superb.
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This railroad has put the Idaho/Oregon Belt out of business.
Superb. Simply superb.
I'm just the opposite, it has me chaffing at getting all of my remodeling done so I can get into the garage to start my Palouse - Klamath Midland.
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@coldriver I just found your youtube channel a couple of months back, I've been enjoying all the videos.
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Sirenwerks: Your line runs N-S, the OJL runs E-W, are the two of you going to plan, and model, your own interchange?
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I loved running the Monument Tramp. I wish I hadn't missed the last two op sessions. :(
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As one of those customers, wish it worked that way. I understand the realities of situations and sometimes heroic measures can be employed, but that's a rare sometime. Problem is with the people in my company who think it's as simple as sending an engine to grab the car and running it up the track twenty miles to the plant in the next hour.
I guess they look at all our layouts with dozens of idle engines sitting at the round houses and project that to the real world.
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As one of those customers, wish it worked that way. I understand the realities of situations and sometimes heroic measures can be employed, but that's a rare sometime. Problem is with the people in my company who think it's as simple as sending an engine to grab the car and running it up the track twenty miles to the plant in the next hour.
I guess they look at all our layouts with dozens of idle engines sitting at the round houses and project that to the real world.
That sums it up well - there were plenty of times as a yardmaster where I pulled a rabbit out of a hat to get a car to a customer who was truly in dire straits. But some customers expected expedited handling for almost every car (which certainly wasn't what they were paying for). And in the worst cases we sometimes had customer traffic people demanding a car immediately, and after we dropped everything to get the car to the customer ASAP the actual workers at the plant refused to accept the car for some reason. People talk about railroads not wanting to serve single car customers but what it comes down to is when under the gun and faced with a choice, it's far better to have a switch engine spend the next two hours switching out an inbound train which allows 100 carloads to make connections for multiple customers rather than spending the next two hours taking a single car on an emergent basis to an out of the way customer who didn't plan ahead or build sufficient warehousing capacity to allow himself the safety stock to withstand a day or two delay on an arriving boxcar. Yes, in a perfect world every car would arrive on time - but in the real world there are derailments, blizzards, grade crossing accidents, power outages, broken rails, massive crew layoffs on Super Bowl Sunday, mechanical failures, floods, etc, etc, etc.
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I remember listening to my Uncle who is now nearly 90, a former agent at Winlock, Raymond and a Hostler's helper at NP's Centralia Roundhouse, all in Washington State.
He's repeatedly told stories of customers who implored train crews to spot cars after hours, but he'd typically do it himself, only because of his sense of responsibility to his community. It was a different era.
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Dean, I notice that you are using car tabs. Can you share the nature of the operation, creation of the tabs, and whether operators prefer them to car cards or switchlists. Thanks for any insight.
John
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Sirenwerks: Your line runs N-S, the OJL runs E-W, are the two of you going to plan, and model, your own interchange?
Interesting idea but it might create a singularity. Not having a map of the OJL, my line would erase part of the SP&S and all of the GN from the Inside Gateway and extend further into California than the GN did, and its northern terminus would be situated to take on run through from the MILW. So it might erase some of the parts of the OJL in the process.
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Yeah, that could be a problem. Can't interchange with a railroad that doesn't exist in your universe...
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Yeah, that could be a problem. Can't interchange with a railroad that doesn't exist in your universe...
You probably can, I'm just not Eisntein.
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I'm not sure even Einstein could do THAT. He was a genius about space-time, but as far as I know, all of his work dealt with one universe. We need a new genius to figure out how to run trains between universes.
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Dean, I notice that you are using car tabs. Can you share the nature of the operation, creation of the tabs, and whether operators prefer them to car cards or switchlists. Thanks for any insight.
John
Since Dean hasn't answered, and as someone who has been in operating sessions there, maybe I can answer. I love the system, and think most operators there do, as well. As to creating the tabs, Dean I think has a You Tube video of that. I know he started with colored dots from any business supply store, switching to tabs made of H or I beam styrene plastic. His era's freight cars all have roofwalks and he sizes for perfect fit. Other car types sit loose somewhere, but oddly, with so few derailments, they never fall off.
It has obvious advantages in N over car number reading, and eliminates the "oh, any box car there will do" factor in other simplified switching systems. Having run his Monument Yard many times, it is a neat feeling to see the same color tabs lined up on various tracks, and knowing your work (for now) is done. He has the "playbook" posted above the yard so you know which inbounds to switch for. If you get ahead of schedule, or trains run late, you can just tick off the next one on the list to keep busy.
I starting to fit my cars (modern era, no roofwalk) with the dots, using round with different colors to indicate which general zone they go to, and sometimes additional number or letter to ID a particular track for delivery. I have north (white), south (red) east (blue) and west zones (yellow/orange). My outbound loads can go two directions, and I use a white sqare tab for north (suggesting snow) and none for south, although I was considering blue and gray. Not sure my ideas on color associations would work for everyone, but I like them!
At any rate, between Dean (congenial and fun) the layout (large and spectacular, with no derailments of the track caused type) the operations scheme (lots of different trains) and the ops system (tabs) his sessions are the most fun of any in DFW. Yes, I know some folks prefer more prototypical systems with lots of paperwork, etc. and Rail Ops and a few others seem to work very well, I prefer less stress and more ease of operations, so it feels perfect to me. After a while, you don't even notice the tabs as a distraction, which some would assume would be another drawback to the system.
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Dean, I notice that you are using car tabs. Can you share the nature of the operation, creation of the tabs, and whether operators prefer them to car cards or switchlists. Thanks for any insight.
John
Sorry John, been travelling and sort of dropped out of sight for a bit so I just saw your post (thanks Jeff for stepping in!). Chris Palmieri put together a nice explanation of my car tab system - https://meridianspeedway.weebly.com/car-tabs-on-np-oregon-joint-line.html
If I was in a larger scale I'd probably have never gone there, and my original intent was to replace them with a more sophisticated system eventually. But frankly, they work damn good. They are easy to learn and easy to use. There's no squinting to read N scale car numbers. You never have the annoyance of spending (at least it sometimes seems...) as much time sorting car cards as you spend sorting the cars themselves.
Yup, there's an aesthetic downside, but no one seems to complain, and frankly I've got far more people wanting to operate than what I can accommodate (so you'd better not complain :D). Essentially they act as two cycle waybills and most of the tabs just get flipped after a session if they've reached their destination. But it's not at all repeating scenarios in my case, because some cars take one session to make a cycle, while others take up to three sessions per cycle because cars often transfer from yard to yard (and sometimes even a third yard) on my layout before they get to their final spotting location. I also reduce the visual impact by not putting any tabs on cars moving from one end of staging to the other on the same train (why would you?), which probably represents at least 50% of my traffic. And finally there are certain car types which more or less serve as their own tabs. For instance, I have a lot of woodchip traffic on the OJL and all loaded woodchip cars go to a single destination - the pulpmill at Scanlon on the Oregon & Northeastern RR. So there's no need to put tabs on these cars, the switching instructions at every yard on the OJL make it clear that all loaded woochip cars need to route towards Scanlon. The empty woodchip cars need tabs to get back to multiple lumber mills for loading of course, but these cars are nice and deep so you typically don't see the tabs unless you're looking straight down. Probably the biggest downside is removing the tabs for photography.
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Interesting idea but it might create a singularity. Not having a map of the OJL, my line would erase part of the SP&S and all of the GN from the Inside Gateway and extend further into California than the GN did, and its northern terminus would be situated to take on run through from the MILW. So it might erase some of the parts of the OJL in the process.
Yes, definitely sounds like some overlap - the Northern Pacific side of the OJL is an Oregon Trunk/Inside Gateway competitor extending south from Pasco through central Oregon to a connection with the WP and SP somewhere west of Elko. The GN side splits off the Oregon Trunk and follows Trout Creek through Antelope (aka Rajhneeshpuram) to a junction with the NP line in the Spray area to form the Oregon Joint Line and then splits off near Burns to head east towards their own WP/SP connection in eastern Nevada.
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Finally got to finish Part 2 of my Monument Yard video. Can't believe how well received it's been - yes I would like to make more of these scripted videos with multiple characters, but at some point I need to resume work on the layout....
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Love it.
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Antelope (aka Rajhneeshpuram)" I've been there - many years ago, when it was just "Antelope". Nice scenery for a railroad.
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The great thing is, Dean's "playbook" for switching Monument eliminates most need for talking and verbal instructions. You get a few calls from dispatch.
One of Dean's strengths, as a BNSF employee, is that his train lists and playbooks, even his switch schemes balance good information and schedules with flexibility. For example, at Monument, if the fleet of trains is late for some reason, he has a dozen tasks, some of which you can move on to do to keep busy until the trains arrive.
Similar to cars, his yard tracks have magnetic tabs, so instead of always assigning track X to the Y location, the yardmaster selects from the open (or most open) tracks matching track length to anticipated number of cars. When a track becomes available after a train leaves, it can be used for whatever needs to be switched next, and you just place the magnetic bar over that track on the yard diagram.
But, it does help that Dean walks around a lot, answering any questions that he has somehow and rarely NOT made intuitively obvious.
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Make me happy now! I love the story line , it makes watching a switching very enjoyable.
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Dean, thanks for responding. One quick question, in order to get the two colour tags are you masking each of those 1/2 inch pieces then painting them.
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Dean, thanks for responding. One quick question, in order to get the two colour tags are you masking each of those 1/2 inch pieces then painting them.
Yessir. In addition to painting the tabs to code them I've even gone so far to as paint the sides of the tabs in some cases to better blend in with the roof tops. I've even experimented with weathering the tabs!
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/8/3421-201218195015-84772141.jpeg)
I was never really happy with the Union Pacific Burns Branch staging built into the fascia - it wasn't hidden, but certainly had limited vertical clearance. So with the ongoing work at Snowline I decided to try something new - hang the staging track on the front of the fascia. It seemed like this might be a really bad idea but it survived the first session without incident. It's only two inches wide so it doesn't take up much aisle space. It'd be tougher to pull this off in a bigger scale.
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/8/3421-201218195015-84772141.jpeg)
I was never really happy with the Union Pacific Burns Branch staging built into the fascia - it wasn't hidden, but certainly had limited vertical clearance. So with the ongoing work at Snowline I decided to try something new - hang the staging track on the front of the fascia. It seemed like this might be a really bad idea but it survived the first session without incident. It's only two inches wide so it doesn't take up much aisle space. It'd be tougher to pull this off in a bigger scale.
Outstanding.
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The Latta Subdivision layout in Great Model Railroads this year has a similar concept with 3 or 4 tracks in front of the fascia; looks like a good concept!
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That was one of the ideas I had contemplated for staging for Windsor Street. I never figured out how to fit it in with the existing benchwork though so I went in another direction.
I still really like the concept.
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That was one of the ideas I had contemplated for staging for Windsor Street. I never figured out how to fit it in with the existing benchwork though so I went in another direction.
I still really like the concept.
I thought about something like that for an extension to the MMID interchange at Emory Grove
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I hope this means there is another operations video coming up. You do as great job with them, they are very entertaining.
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I hope this means there is another operations video coming up. You do as great job with them, they are very entertaining.
thanks, but it'll be a while before I do another one of those. They're very time consuming to make and I'm focused on making some layout progress at the moment.
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thanks, but it'll be a while before I do another one of those. They're very time consuming to make and I'm focused on making some layout progress at the moment.
Damn. I love them too!
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Great job with the staging track - what you did makes so much sense!
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/8/medium_3421-261218091011.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8508)
Here's another (more or less) completed scene to check off the list - the summit cut at Snowline. I originally thought about a summit tunnel but is there anything less prototypical than a two track tunnel on a single track line (unless the line started as two tracks and was later single tracked - e.g. Donner Pass). I've also maintained my discipline in adding culverts rather than bridges. I participate in engineering inspections of shortlines as part of my profession and that's one thing you definitely notice when you look at a line in depth - there are far more culverts than bridges (I'd guess a minimum ratio of 10 to 1). I still need to select and hang a backdrop photo for this scene.
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Nice. As a line inspector, you must also have a good eye for cut & fill, as nicely illustrated here.
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I like it a lot.
Rod.
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Nice work
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No doubt I'll be adding further details to this scene for as long as the Oregon Joint Line exists, but Snowline is basically complete. I thought about building a tunnel at the summit but since it's a siding location I decided to make it a summit cut which is located to the far right in the top photo (is there anything less prototypical than a double track tunnel on a single track line?). Snowline is at the end of a turnback curve so the aisle is a deadend. Because of that I decided to go ahead and make the scene quite a bit deeper than I typically have on the layout since it really wouldn't hurt functionality and operator comfort and would reinforce the idea of a sprawling cattle ranch, rather than a barn on a lawn (take that you HO Scalers...). The inspiration for having the ranch on both sides of the track came from a Google Earth search which found the Sutton Creek Cattle Company ranch on Union Pacific's mainline east of Baker City, Oregon at 39172 Old US Highway 30 (I believe the Oregon Trail went right through this rancher's property!). Here the double track UP crosses over a small stream and cattle/road underpass on a simple concrete structure which allows the rancher access to fields on both sides. (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/9/3421-020219125203.jpeg)(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/9/3421-020219120306.jpeg)
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Incredible as usual.
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False advertising....where's the snow!?!? :P :D
Looks magnificent as always.
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You capture the look of the area very well! I might have to watch your videos again.
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Rivet Miscounter: Eastern Oregon can be hot and dry in the summer, but very cold in the winter, and has a fair amount of snow, especially at higher elevations. A summit cut could be a major headache for plow crews, as the wind blows almost constantly in that area, and drifts could pack hard enough to make clearing them difficult.
Railroads through ranches aren't rare. In many cases the ranch was there first, and the railroad had to provide access not only for people, but for herds of livestock. Many grade crossings had cattle guards, and most places where a road crossed a fence line did. They were easier to use than gates on public roads, as there was no need to stop to open/close them.
Since this is all one ranch, gates, guards, or nothing is up to the owner. If he doesn't mind cattle in his garden that's his choice, but here the house area is well fenced. I never lived on a ranch, but it looks good to me.
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False advertising....where's the snow!?!? :P :D
I thought about a snow scene, but the problem is if you're modeling winter up in the mountains then you need to have winter on the entire layout. So you may not have snow at the lower elevations, but the deciduous trees would certainly not have leaves and grass would be brown, etc.
Rivet Miscounter: Eastern Oregon can be hot and dry in the summer, but very cold in the winter, and has a fair amount of snow, especially at higher elevations. A summit cut could be a major headache for plow crews, as the wind blows almost constantly in that area, and drifts could pack hard enough to make clearing them difficult.
Don't think drifting snow in my summit cut would be much of an issue since it's surrounded by heavy forest. It's certainly not a major issue for UP with those big cuts in the forests below Meacham on the Blue Mt grade. Since you mentioned it though I thought about the possibility of installing snow fences above the cut, but I can't recall ever seeing snow fences in use in heavily forested areas. Seems like they're always in the wide open wind blown high elevation areas of Wyoming, Idaho, and Eastern Oregon. I did install some further down the grade below the tree line.
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No, the forest will provide better drift protection than any snow fence. You might get deep snow in the cuts, when the wind is calm during a snow event, but it won't be wind-packed like in the plains.
I was thinking of eastern Oregon in general, inspired by the ranch pictures. As you said, the UP in the Blue Mountains doesn't seem to have much trouble with drifting, and that area can get quite a bit of snow in good years. We used to camp at Emigrant Spring SP, back in the 60s and early 70s, and have been through Meacham numerous times, but never in the winter.
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Damn Dean!!!!! That is AWESOME!!!!!!! Great looking scene as always!!! Gordon
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/>Here's an updated layout tour video of the Oregon Joint Line featuring recently completed scenes!
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I love the basalt! You've certainly captured the eastern Oregon scenery.
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Dean,
GREAT VIDEO!!!!! love the progress, looking better than ever! cannot wait till I can operate on your railroad again!
Gordon Bliss
Santa Fe-All the Way
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Fabulous!
It's getting better and better, and the new backdrops add a whole another dimension.
Really nice work, Dean!
Otto K.
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Now THAT is awesome. Beautiful job.
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Dean the layout is looking great! Can wait until the next op session to see the progress in person.
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Dean wins the Railwire for the weekend.
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Dean, great layout tour! Your layout is an inspiration to many here.
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/9/3421-180219094745.jpeg)
Thanks for all the positive feedback. I tried hard to get the entire video done in one continuous shot with throttles strategically placed around the layout for each scene, but it was just too much trying to juggle the camera and that many throttles. But I did manage to get it down to two shots for the upper level and then a third for the lower level!
The photo above coming out the the tunnel into Picture Gorge is not a newly completed scene but for some reason I'd never really explored the photographic possibilities until very recently.
Hopefully I'll see you for the DFW Interchange this fall Gordon. And my apologies for not making it down to Hooters last year due to an unavoidable conflict...
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Yeah man, I know I've said it before, but I really dig your layout. Very different than what I'm used to but very cool!
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I just noticed the gaps between the basalt layers. Very nice! On the prototype, those are soil that formed, or blew in, between lava flows. They often still have plant and animal residues in them.
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Yours is one of the few layouts I’ve seen that have enough dirt modeled to create realistic scenery. Most layouts are way too clean and look like everything’s been power washed without leaving any mud behind.
Kudos.
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I just noticed the gaps between the basalt layers. Very nice! On the prototype, those are soil that formed, or blew in, between lava flows. They often still have plant and animal residues in them.
Confession time - in North Texas it's tough to get 2" inch thick and larger foam so I had to use 1". The gaps you see are between the 1" foam layers. I was going to fill the gaps with scupltamold but as you noted, real basalt has those gaps so I left them. I just wish they were a little more irregular.
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This is really where n scale shines; making a train seem engulfed by scenery and large vistas. Looks excellent!
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/>Here's an updated layout tour video of the Oregon Joint Line featuring recently completed scenes!
It is all fabulous but that segment through Picture Gorge at 9:00 mark was incredible!
md
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"I just wish they were a little more irregular. "
The real ones come in varying regularities. Yours look fine.
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/10/3421-170319181000.png)
It's been several years since I posted a track plan. Here's an updated version showing the current state of things now that all track is down (at least on the main level - I'm about to add another 20' of staging trackage on the lower staging level).
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You know, every time I view this thread I hear the guy singing "Oregon Joint Line". lol
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Yeah, my brother in law started using it as his ringtone. Composed and performed by yours truly as are all the background beats which have titles like “spotting the log dump” and “making the Np transfer”!
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The one that give me a grin is
"Make me happy now!"
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And the UP guy who doesn't seem to like working for the UP.
And I love John Hamilton the third, superintendent of operations
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Yeah, my brother in law started using it as his ringtone. Composed and performed by yours truly as are all the background beats which have titles like “spotting the log dump” and “making the Np transfer”!
Oh man, I love it. Like I said, I really enjoy your videos and they just add such character to it.
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And the UP guy who doesn't seem to like working for the UP.
And I love John Hamilton the third, superintendent of operations
The UP guy is out there on the far end of the UP system, largely forgotten by the rest of the railroad, trying to navigate across a host railroad (the NP) that considers him to be the very lowest priority to get over the road. No wonder everyday is "Another 12 hour day on the You-Pee".
Make that Supt Opts George W Thompson the III. Hotshot Ivy Leaguer who thought he'd be CEO by now but due to his operating ineptnitude is instead stuck in the backwaters of Eastern Oregon taking out his unhappiness on the rank and file.
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Your videos are truly fantastic. You composing your own "beats" adds the right touch and helps keep those watching entertained. Now all you need to do is add a ball diamond with a young lady striking out while her parents look on with great excitement even though the mom has a thyroid issue.
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Is it possible Dean is building the perfect model railroad for that place and era? It's damn hard to find anything wrong with his approach, planning or execution.
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I can tell you exactly what’s wrong with this layout...
It’s not in my garage. ☹️
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Is it possible Dean is building the perfect model railroad for that place and era? It's damn hard to find anything wrong with his approach, planning or execution.
Thanks but let's not go too far overboard :o It's been a long time journey - I was just looking through some old papers yesterday and found a map I produced 35 years ago showing that some day the model railroad I hoped to build would be routed through Dayville, Oregon, although at that point it was to be a freelanced line called the "Pacific Northern".
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Thanks but let's not go too far overboard :o It's been a long time journey - I was just looking through some old papers yesterday and found a map I produced 35 years ago showing that some day the model railroad I hoped to build would be routed through Dayville, Oregon, although at that point it was to be a freelanced line called the "Pacific Northern".
See, all those years armchairing, day dreaming, and planning do pay off.
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/>
The latest yard operations video. Most of your favorite characters are there plus a few new ones.
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/>
The latest yard operations video. Most of your favorite characters are there plus a few new ones.
Also featuring new music and a new feature of singing back switch move directions.
You had me rolling with that.
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I love when I see a new video pop up from Oregon Joint Line. Love it !
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/>
The latest yard operations video. Most of your favorite characters are there plus a few new ones.
Perfect except that the molded plastic waste basket was clearly too new for 1969. But I can confidently say that nothing on the actual layout broke my suspension of disbelief. :D
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Perfect except that the molded plastic waste basket was clearly too new for 1969. But I can confidently say that nothing on the actual layout broke my suspension of disbelief. :D
Thanks, I was trying to finish up and all I had on hand was that foob out of era receptacle. It's the first time I've "broken the fourth wall" as they say in the business. As just about everything in my videos, it was based on a real event I experienced as a prototype yardmaster...
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time for a new video and a new chance to get that "Oregon Joint Line" jingle stuck in your head for the next few days. This time we focus on through freight operations.
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Dang, nice! I always enjoy these updates!
Otto K.
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Always impressive, Dean. Always. My wife enjoys your videos, too, asking "Can we do that?".
Something I noticed from my days in the radio shop... the era you're modeling is roughly contemporary with my time there. Seeing that (...I think...) you're younger than I, you might not be aware of an operational quirk that would be an issue with the disparate roads' locomotives and cabooses represented in your operation.
The Santa Fe way car was what caught my attention, especially since you're portraying quite a bit of radio ops. Synthesized, frequency-agile radios did not yet exist. Most roads had two or - at best - four channel radios. Some lines had two frequencies, road and yard, and would put "rocks" (crystals, a/k/a "channel elements") in the other two positions corresponding to RRs where they had operating agreements. For example, in road service locos at the time, UP would typically have four-channel radios: road freq in #1, ATSF road in position #2 for Cajon Pass, and SP road in #3 for joint ops on the Overland Route (I can't recall what was in #4... CB&Q, maybe?). Foreign power lacking this mix could not lead.
Cabooses would be much more restricted, most having just 2-channel radios since going off the home road was unusual. Again using UP as an example, they upgraded most of the road fleet to "P"-marked (pool) cabooses in the late '60s with 4-channel transceivers corresponding to locomotive practice. A notable exception was the handful of "K"-marked cabooses, with D&RGW in (...I think...) channel #4 for the joint coal ops.
ANYway, what I'm trying to say here is given the radio limitations of the day, it is unlikely that just any Santa Fe caboose would have the OJL road frequency in any channel element position. Not impossible, just unlikely. When push came to shove, however, and the particular bit of equipment absolutely had to go out on the road (foreign power leading, or foreign caboose operating without a home-road caboose), the radio shop would be tasked with changing out the radio pack to the normal home-road frequency set. This created a bit of a logistics nightmare in getting the replaced radio pack back to the rightful owner if the caboose, loco or whatever did not return back to the shop where the radio was changed. Bear in mind that these radios were $1000+/each in 1970, and therefore were a tightly managed asset. In the case of a caboose on through ops, it was usually more expedient and less costly to tack a home-road caboose on the back and call 'er "done".
I recall this distinctly because RR radio was a sub-hobby at the time, so I happened to know other RR's frequencies. Charlie (shop foreman) complained at length that management would not let him officially have this info, so it became my job to open-up the stray packs, see what channel elements were in it and determine who they belonged to. Then it was his job to figure out how (in the heck) to get 'em back home. :facepalm:
Frequency-agile radios didn't appear in general RR use until ~1980, just about the time I left the RR biz.
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I appreciate your thoughts and info. One of the reasons I specifically chose the era and locale I did is because it was really the start of the western pool power era with railroads beginning to more freely run through power and cabooses. Whether or not there was a specifically designated group of cabooses that was set up to run through from the GN/BN to the WP I honestly can't say but since my layout only has a very limited number of ATSF, WP, and SP cabooses (and you keep seeing the same damn ones over and over) I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to assume that my caboose pools could've been set up that way. I can tell you that I served as conductor for a while on one of our last runs that regularly used cabooses (because it helped with the Canadian border crossing) and you would probably not be surprised to learn that by that time (early to mid 90's) cabooses weren't exactly the best maintained item in the rolling stock fleet. I made several trips where the caboose radio was non-functional and in those cases ended up just using my portable radio (the oldheads still referred to them as "packsets" - a term carried forward from an earlier era) the entire time. I could always talk to the head end, yardmasters, and the clerks handling the border crossing on my "packset" and depending on the proximity to radio towers quite often talk to the dispatcher. If I was unable to reach the dispatcher the head end crew would just relay to me as I copied track warrants or other instructions.
As far as actual layout communications in an op session situation we don't use any radios - it's a phone system. But, it's a lot more fun portraying it in radio-style on the videos though especially since it helps recreate the radio chatter of my early days working in operations (yup, there's some era cross-dressing going on...). I can't imagine how boring those videos would be if they weren't done with radio-style communications (so stop your nitpicking!).
Always impressive, Dean. Always. My wife enjoys your videos, too, asking "Can we do that?".
Something I noticed from my days in the radio shop... the era you're modeling is roughly contemporary with my time there. Seeing that (...I think...) you're younger than I, you might not be aware of an operational quirk that would be an issue with the disparate roads' locomotives and cabooses represented in your operation.
The Santa Fe way car was what caught my attention, especially since you're portraying quite a bit of radio ops. Synthesized, frequency-agile radios did not yet exist. Most roads had two or - at best - four channel radios. Some lines had two frequencies, road and yard, and would put "rocks" (crystals, a/k/a "channel elements") in the other two positions corresponding to RRs where they had operating agreements. For example, in road service locos at the time, UP would typically have four-channel radios: road freq in #1, ATSF road in position #2 for Cajon Pass, and SP road in #3 for joint ops on the Overland Route (I can't recall what was in #4... CB&Q, maybe?). Foreign power lacking this mix could not lead.
Cabooses would be much more restricted, most having just 2-channel radios since going off the home road was unusual. Again using UP as an example, they upgraded most of the road fleet to "P"-marked (pool) cabooses in the late '60s with 4-channel transceivers corresponding to locomotive practice. A notable exception was the handful of "K"-marked cabooses, with D&RGW in (...I think...) channel #4 for the joint coal ops.
ANYway, what I'm trying to say here is given the radio limitations of the day, it is unlikely that just any Santa Fe caboose would have the OJL road frequency in any channel element position. Not impossible, just unlikely. When push came to shove, however, and the particular bit of equipment absolutely had to go out on the road (foreign power leading, or foreign caboose operating without a home-road caboose), the radio shop would be tasked with changing out the radio pack to the normal home-road frequency set. This created a bit of a logistics nightmare in getting the replaced radio pack back to the rightful owner if the caboose, loco or whatever did not return back to the shop where the radio was changed. Bear in mind that these radios were $1000+/each in 1970, and therefore were a tightly managed asset. In the case of a caboose on through ops, it was usually more expedient and less costly to tack a home-road caboose on the back and call 'er "done".
I recall this distinctly because RR radio was a sub-hobby at the time, so I happened to know other RR's frequencies. Charlie (shop foreman) complained at length that management would not let him officially have this info, so it became my job to open-up the stray packs, see what channel elements were in it and determine who they belonged to. Then it was his job to figure out how (in the heck) to get 'em back home. :facepalm:
Frequency-agile radios didn't appear in general RR use until ~1980, just about the time I left the RR biz.
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I think I like the operation of thru freights as much if not more than switching a local. Really love the layout... and as an old Barber Shop bass, the jingle needs a little something more at the bottom... :D
Lee
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... (the oldheads still referred to them as "packsets" - a term carried forward from an earlier era) ...
Here's a packset:
(http://www.everywherewest.com/packset.jpg)
I "borrowed" the image from the web since I could not find the box with my surplussed packset for a firsthand pic. They used lantern batteries, which was A Very Good Thing because we didn't have to keep up with charging stations. Packsets were frequently delegated to caboose duty to compensate for the maintenance issue you cited. Not to mention to use on the ground they were heavy and awkward and left you with only one hand to work with... what a flippin' pain!
We also had handheld portables at the time - 2-channel Motorola HT220s, to be exact - which some crews tended to use as wheel chocks when comm wasn't perfect. :facepalm: After the second such event we would issue a packset. Served 'em right.
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That's awesome - can't imagine hauling around something like that! What was the approximate date range for that type of rig?
Here's a packset:
(http://www.everywherewest.com/packset.jpg)
I "borrowed" the image from the web since I could not find the box with my surplussed packset for a firsthand pic. They used lantern batteries, which was A Very Good Thing because we didn't have to keep up with charging stations. Packsets were frequently delegated to caboose duty to compensate for the maintenance issue you cited. Not to mention to use on the ground they were heavy and awkward and left you with only one hand to work with... what a flippin' pain!
We also had handheld portables at the time - 2-channel Motorola HT220s, to be exact - which some crews tended to use as wheel chocks when comm wasn't perfect. :facepalm: After the second such event we would issue a packset. Served 'em right.
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They started in the mid-'50s with a really crude tin-can lunchbox design with vacuum-tube "finals" (final RF transmit stage). Of course that was state-of-the-art then. It was superseded in the early '60s by a solid-state version semi-related to the Motrac mobile product line, also in a metal case. The ruggedized-plastic packset in the pic was ~1970-1980. I think that was the end of the line so to speak, Motorola (to my knowledge) never marketed a frequency-agile RR version in this configuration, although the basic design may have lived a few more years in MIL-SPEC.
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Enjoy the voices almost as much as watching the trains. Is that all you, or do you get your helpers to take a part?
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Here's my latest YouTube effort documenting my updating the layout to the early Burlington Northern era for a single session. />
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/13/3421-241119091007.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=13630)
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Another great operations video - cleverly done! Thanks for posting. Bob
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Your layout probably has the best Columbia Plateau scenery I've ever seen, in any scale. I've been lots of places, growing up, that look just like those pictures.
An update to the early BN era would be easy - just change the paperwork! BN-painted locos and cars started showing up shortly after the merger, but one could still find consists without BN units for the first couple years.
The biggest problem there is that all of the locos were renumbered quickly, which you wouldn't want to do.
For those not familiar with the (now 50 year old) merger, the BN didn't do quicky patch jobs like most roads do today. They very carefully removed the old numbers, and neatly applied a BN number and small "BN". The result was a nice looking locomotive, not an "official tag job" type patch. It helped that the merger had been planned for several years, and everything was ready to go on M-day. It also helped that all four roads were "family", unlike the PC merger, where the NYC and PRR had a long history of corporate animosity.
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Very cool to see the Milwaukee Road have a part on the Oregon Joint Line. You know Mike Confalone’s Allagash Railway was merger into the Guilford too, so you’re not alone in having a merger to spice up ops.
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Another great operations video - cleverly done! Thanks for posting. Bob
What he said! Plus, it must be nice having friends give you locomotives for Christmas. Most of mine seem to want to give me coal . . .
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What he said! Plus, it must be nice having friends give you locomotives for Christmas. Most of mine seem to want to give me coal . . .
Must think you like steam locos.
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Phillip: I have no idea where I read it, could be in a magazine, more likely on the old Atlas forum. Modelers were telling what they received for Christmas. One said he got a lump of coal, then described the lump. It was about a foot cube, with very nice layer detail on four sides, flat on the top and bottom, perfect for making rock molds. Just what he wanted for Christmas!
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Phillip: I have no idea where I read it, could be in a magazine, more likely on the old Atlas forum. Modelers were telling what they received for Christmas. One said he got a lump of coal, then described the lump. It was about a foot cube, with very nice layer detail on four sides, flat on the top and bottom, perfect for making rock molds. Just what he wanted for Christmas!
Well being a diesel guy I’m not into coal.
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No, but it does make a nice master for rock castings. I would have loved to have had a chunk like that 20 years ago. Make a mold from each side, and the strata would line up, all the way around. Just keep repeating the castings for as long a cliff as you need. Four feet of cliff would have been plenty for most of my scenery locations.
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Here's my latest YouTube effort documenting my updating the layout to the early Burlington Northern era for a single session.
Oh man, I loved it!!!
I think you can also have some fun with a BN Day+2 session too, where everything has changed but nothing has changed. Basically, everyone's doing what they did the day before but now the MILW shows up too. I loved some of the C Day+2 videos where everything was almost the same except a PC SD45 showed up on an LV train.
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And I was just thinking that the only thing that could make this layout better is some Milwaukee ;)
Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
Lucas
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Your videos are always such a joy to watch. Thanks for your efforts and taking the time to share them with us.
Steve
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Mmmmm... Orange sherbet!
Upvoted before I watched the video, never disappointed. :D
I think this is fast becoming one of my favorite layouts, truly inspiring...
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Oh man, I loved it!!!
I think you can also have some fun with a BN Day+2 session too, where everything has changed but nothing has changed. Basically, everyone's doing what they did the day before but now the MILW shows up too. I loved some of the C Day+2 videos where everything was almost the same except a PC SD45 showed up on an LV train.
Thanks Ed, on the Northern Pacific branchline I grew up along BN merger day meant that my branchline became part of the BN Portland Division which was for the most part the former Spokane, Portland, and Seattle. So overnight the NP SW's which were the regular power for years became SP&S RS3's.
Back before I hit on the idea of adding the Milwaukee I was just going to have Dayville closed (maybe used for car storage), because that's what railroads do when they merge (eliminate redundant facilities). This would have been really tough on the poor yard crew at Monument, but that's the reality of railroad mergers. Stockholders expect a return and that's done by reducing expenses, no matter the cost!
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And I was just thinking that the only thing that could make this layout better is some Milwaukee ;)
Good stuff, thanks for sharing!
Lucas
Yeah, I know. I've wanted to include the Milwaukee for some time but couldn't really think of a plausible way to incorporate it.
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Thanks Ed, on the Northern Pacific branchline I grew up along BN merger day meant that my branchline became part of the BN Portland Division which was for the most part the former Spokane, Portland, and Seattle. So overnight the NP SW's which were the regular power for years became SP&S RS3's.
Back before I hit on the idea of adding the Milwaukee I was just going to have Dayville closed (maybe used for car storage), because that's what railroads do when they merge (eliminate redundant facilities). This would have been really tough on the poor yard crew at Monument, but that's the reality of railroad mergers. Stockholders expect a return and that's done by reducing expenses, no matter the cost!
Haha, dooooo it! I really do love the one shots that are possible with some borrowed power.
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Ouch!
Major injuries as caboose crash caused by excessive speed... news to follow... :scared: :facepalm:
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Must think you like steam locos.
Or have an on-line power plant...
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Any more pictures of the scenery and aisle adjustment to fossil?
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Any more pictures of the scenery and aisle adjustment to fossil?
Have been trying to show some more photos, but I seem to be having extreme difficulty adding to my gallery. My internet service is slow but not that slow and there's never any indication of what went wrong (the bar goes across, then there's just a big ole X on the photo indicating it didn't load). Can't seem to attach photos to posts or add to galleries. Think I'll stick to my Facebook group for now.
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Have been trying to show some more photos, but I seem to be having extreme difficulty adding to my gallery. My internet service is slow but not that slow and there's never any indication of what went wrong (the bar goes across, then there's just a big ole X on the photo indicating it didn't load). Can't seem to attach photos to posts or add to galleries. Think I'll stick to my Facebook group for now.
The file size might be too big for TRW. What's your Facebook group?
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Recently I've been frustrated by some of the scenes on the OJL which seemed like they could be a lot better if the shelves weren't so narrow. The area between the south end of Fossil and O&NE crossing is at the end of a dead end aisle and I've noted that there's rarely a "people congestion" issue in this area at op sessions and theorized that a fair amount of aisle space could be sacrificed without affecting operator comfort. In particular this seemed like a good area for layout expansion because you have the mainlines of the OJL and the O&NE squeezed into a 12 inch shelf with the river between them. Here's the before picture with some mockup's of where I thought the aisle edges might be extended to. Ultimately I went a lot farther than what this mockup shows.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-020420194606.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16220)
I removed the fascia and began extending the benchwork out into the aisle. This shot gives a good idea of how much was added at South Fossil. It was a bit of a challenge matching the colors and profile of the existing scenery, but I plunged ahead. You can also see some mockups of various backdrop photos I was testing in this shot.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-020420194905.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16221)
And here's the results of that effort with the scenery mostly finished. I'll be doing some more tree placement adjustments before it'll be finalized.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/15/medium_3421-210320153722.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=15760)
Here's a shot showing the mainlines of the Oregon Joint Line on the left with the Oregon & Northeastern logging line on the right, and the South Fork of the John Day River in between. Yep, I need to clean the riverbed.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-020420194215.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16219)
Here's a shot approaching O&NE Crossing. The wide open mountain/desert/forest scenery of Eastern Oregon seems like a perfect prototype to me - there's not so much vegetation that's it blocks views of the tracks, but there's enough vegetation so that it's not a completely stark landscape, and of course there are always dramatic mountain backgrounds. I'll probably add some more trees to this scene but with the additional layout space the scene begins to look huge!
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-020420200023.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16225)
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Very nice! (Glad you sorted out the photo posting too.) The backdrop blending in that last shot is excellent.
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I've been asked a few times about the ground cover I use. From left to right, top to bottom, it's sage coarse turf, yellow grass coarse turf, burnt grass coarse turf, then burnt grass fine turf, yellow grass fine turf, and earth fine turf. At the bottom is a static grass mixture of various shades of 2mm dead or dying grass, with a little 4mm mixed in for variety. All this makes for some very ugly landscape, in keeping with the actual harsh environment of the area I'm modeling (no bright or cheery colors allowed!). The process is to spread a diluted white glue mix over about a 9" x 9" area, then before it begins to dry it's a race to apply the three coarse turfs, then the static grass (using my homebuilt static grass applicator), then the three fine turfs.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-020420195359.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16223)
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great backdrops..
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The NP/WP combination looks familiar. In the early 70s WP units were common in Pasco, both in silver and the newer dark green. Trains would come up the Inside Gateway from California, then head up the Columbia to Pasco, with some very colorful consists. NP, CB&Q, SP&S, two GN, BN, and the two WP schemes could be seen in every possible combination.
For a while, we also saw a few SP units, up from Portland, but I never heard the reason for those.
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Here's a new photo angle made possible by my scenery expansion project at Picture Gorge (in the distance). This is the Oregon & Northeastern "Logger" leaving Canyon Reload with a train of logs for the mill complex at Scanlon.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/16/medium_3421-120420141028.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16497)
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You have such a knack for modelling the essence of a scene.
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This! :o
+1
Otto
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Love the debris on the ground from the logging.
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That’s a nice pic...well done
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Oh my! :o :o :o
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You have such a knack for modelling the essence of a scene.
thanks Gary and others. My artistic talents are certainly limited but I've spent enough of my life within view of railroad tracks that I have a pretty good sense of how things are supposed to look.
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Here's the latest Youtube masterpiece. I've rebranded the area formerly known as Kinzua to the new name of Westpine and the new company of Anderson & Middleton. Anderson & Middleton was a forest products company on the coast of Washington where I grew up. My dad worked for them for over 25 years and I worked for them as well during summers in my college years so it's been fun introducing a family element to the layout. Hats off to my modeling buddy Greg Mccomas (HO Michigan Interstate) for the custom paint on the S-2.
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Another winner.
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Indeed. That looks like a fun operation with the two interchanges, the logger, and all the switching. I bet it keeps a newbie crew really busy. And I can smell the lumber and chips from here. 8)
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Indeed. That looks like a fun operation with the two interchanges, the logger, and all the switching. I bet it keeps a newbie crew really busy. And I can smell the lumber and chips from here. 8)
thanks - there always seems to be someone on the crew that just wants to go off and switch in a corner by himself. But I've foiled that plan a few times by unexpectedly showing up with something needing to be turned on the wye (it's the only wye on the layout) - in one case a rotary snowplow move and in another a steam special. That's not an easy thing to accommodate in the middle of the shift.
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Vids are aquite enjoyable. Are you the man of a thousand voices?
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Little bias there A&M.....
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Another awesome video Dean!!!!!!! looks fantastic!!!!!! Gordon
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Little bias there A&M.....
Lol, the poor UP crews never catch a break!
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Loving all the details, makes the layout look just right.
Rod.
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Lol, the poor UP crews never catch a break!
They don't in real life either, trust me.
Scott
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/21/3421-301220083218.jpeg)
Here's the latest project on the Oregon Joint Line - the US Forest Service "Scanlon Work Center". In the region of Oregon I'm modelling almost every major town (and by major I mean towns with a population of over 500!) seems to have a Forest Service presence and it's been fun learning about the differences between Ranger Stations, Work Centers, Supervisors Warehouses, and Regional Headquarters as well as proper signage. Forest Service rivet counters will note that the sign is actually incorrect - the pillar should be away from the road (rather than towards it like I have - it's a long story...) but I correctly have the point of the sign pointing towards the road. The vehicles were purchased from our own Rasputen and Shapeways with custom decals from Circus City. The main building, which I scratchbuilt, is a nod to the Grand Pass, Oregon Supervisors Warehouse which was constructed for the Forest Service by the CCC during the depression and survives today with it's seven buildings listed on the National Register of Historic Buildings. I worked as a forest fire fighter for two summers during my college years for the Washington State Department of Natural Resources and frequently reported to a similar (though less historical) facility in Quinault, WA.
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excellent work
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Very nice, the mundane done very well.
Great job!
Otto
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Well done! A worthy addition.
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Really nice scene!
Frank
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You have a real gift for capturing the flavour of the region. Love it! How long till you swap the sign post, though? ;) :D
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Looks great! Awesome work Dean. Gordon
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You have a real gift for capturing the flavour of the region. Love it! How long till you swap the sign post, though? ;) :D
thanks @Gary Hinshaw (and others). Hopefully the sign won't bug me so much that I'll feel the need to change it - it's time to move on to new projects!
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Great update, was looking for a video ! Love em
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My latest Youtube video outlining layout progress in 2020
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Love the video Dean, You have taken it to another level!!!!! Outstanding!!!!! Gordon Bliss Santa Fe-All the Way
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Great work Dean. Your scenery expansion projects are very inspiring. I've recently started to feel the itch to do some scenery. Just a couple more lighting valence sections to go and I'll think I'll do just that. Steve
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Dean, that is outstanding (again).
The closing shot should be a NP Calendar picture!!
Many thanks for sharing
Dirk
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Truly outstanding!
Eyeing my isles... :D
Otto
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Hi Dean - thanks for the video update. Boy did you get alot done last year! You probably have this somewhere in your blog, but I can't find it - do you buy or make your evergreen trees? I am modeling West Virginia, and I need to mix some evergreens in with the deciduous supertrees I have been making. Thanks!
Bob
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thanks for the feedback all!
Hi Dean - thanks for the video update. Boy did you get alot done last year! You probably have this somewhere in your blog, but I can't find it - do you buy or make your evergreen trees? I am modeling West Virginia, and I need to mix some evergreens in with the deciduous supertrees I have been making. Thanks!
Bob
I purchased 1600 conifers from Architrees on Ebay about 12 years ago in 2" and 3" sizes (paid something like $.16 each for them!). None of them individually are showpieces (especially in terms of trunk detail), but you plant a dense forest of them and they look pretty damn good. Because they're hand made (according to the Ebay listing by nuns and indigents in the Philippines) no two look exactly the same. Unfortunately Architrees has really reduced their Ebay listings over the years.
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Hey everyone, I haven't posted lately because frankly there hasn't been much layout progress but the October Railroad Model Craftsman has a cover feature on the Oregon Joint Line. Here's a link to a preview of the article or if you get a chance buy a copy - these guys are worthy of your support!
https://rrmodelcraftsman.com/the-n-scale-oregon-joint-line/
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/25/3421-220921162928.jpeg)
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Congrats Dean. Well deserved.
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Hell yeah! I think this will be the thing that finally gets me to subscribe (instead of just picking up one every time I go somewhere they are).
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Very nice!
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Well between you and Tyler Whitcomb of the Tenino Western I finally have enough issues worth placing an order.!
Well done.
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Congrats Dean!
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Congrats Dean! Well deserved.
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Dean, way to go. Congratulations
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Looks like a great article, Dean! Great to see your railroad published in an all-scale national publication, featuring N scale at its finest!
Congratulations (and thank you).
Otto
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awesome job Dean!!!!! I will pick up a copy this weekend, layout is looking great, well deserved!!!! Gordon Bliss
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I wonder if the digital edition includes "that song" ? Well done.
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Only because I don't subscribe now - what format is the digital edition? I don't have any Apple tablet or phone.
More to the point - amazing work and congratulations!
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Congratulations Dean!
The great photographs capture the high quality of your work.
Michel
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Thanks all, and special thanks to you @superchief (Gordon Bliss) who was the first one to suggest that I needed to do an article on my layout for submission to a national-level magazine. It took me several years but it's great to have accomplished something I never thought would be possible when I was reading RMC as a kid 50 years ago in our local library.
awesome job Dean!!!!! I will pick up a copy this weekend, layout is looking great, well deserved!!!! Gordon Bliss
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When my RMC arrived and I saw the Oregon Joint Line on the cover, my reaction was "YESSSSSSS!!!!!!" Great presentation about one of the finest model railroads in the country IMO. My favorite section is "Depth of N Scale". Every N scale modeler should internalize the message. I could not have said it any better. Well done Dean.
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Congratulations Dean! My copy just arrived in the mail today.
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I've been offline most of the week, working overtime, but I did read that article. Your basalt is fantastic! I grew up in southeast Washington, so that's the scenery I grew up with.
I wonder if there'd be enough interest to do a full article on Columbia Plateau basalt scenery? Almost every other type of geology and vegetation has been written about by now.
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Dean,
Just picked up my copy today, the photos and the article are top notch, this takes N scale to another level! The pictures are outstanding, your photo backdrops make the layout come alive. The cover photo with the white and green insulators show the attention to detail on the incredible layout, you have raised the bar again! Hope to get up there to operate again. Congratulations again for a great article!
Gordon Bliss/ Santa Fe-All the Way
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Finally getting a chance to read the copy I picked up at Barnes and Noble and very well done! I’m also an IE, got my degree from Clemson and have been in manufacturing ever since.
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Whoa, can it really be this long since I last posted a layout update? In looking back through my layout thread I see that several years ago I indicated that I was about to commence construction of the loco servicing facility at Monument. That's finally been accomplished (whew!). Hopefully there'll be a lot more progress made in the next year as our area (DFW) will be hosting the NMRA 2023 convention which will feature the Oregon Joint Line.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/30/medium_3421-260822184633.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30157)
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Congrats Colddriver/ Dean for the layout article on the Oregon Joint Line in the latest Model Railroad Hobbyist. great pictures and awesome article, been a bit quiet but I am sure Dean is getting ready for the NMRA National convention to greet the out of state and international visitors he will be getting soon. Good luck and put on a great show!!!! Gordon
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Dean, I greatly enjoy the OJL operations videos you post on yt, probably my favorite aspect of the hobby. Keep'em coming!
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I’ll second what lock4244 said. Your videos are the most entertaining when it comes from operations. I learned more about that subject from your videos, than all of the books I’ve read.
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The Oregon Joint Line had its last op session on December 8th and will shortly join the legions of fallen flag model railroads. I haven't been very active on The Railwire in recent years but wanted to acknowledge how helpful this group's feedback and encouragement was during the layout's heavy construction period. It was truly awesome seeing your reactions to my completed scenes and shocking to find that I actually had some talent in scenery construction. I'm not sure what my modeling future will be as we're downsizing to a much smaller home with limited layout space, but I've had some interest in people wanting to save portions of the layout. I'll likely save a few portions myself, but I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/45/3421-231224100304.jpeg)
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It is a fantastic layout and really captures the look of the area. Thanks for sharing with us.
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I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!
I think a lot of people learn this lesson when the layout reaches a state of perceived completion. This meshes well with a conversation that we were having with @Dave V about his HOn3 layout a week or so ago.
DFF
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The Oregon Joint Line had its last op session on December 8th and will shortly join the legions of fallen flag model railroads.
Very sad to see such a great layout go, but things change. I'm keen to see anything new that you do on the Railwire, even if it is in a more limited space.
Cheers
Doug
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I think almost anyone modeling the Northwest basalt country would love to have part of it. You definitely got the rocks right!
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I think a lot of people learn this lesson when the layout reaches a state of perceived completion. This meshes well with a conversation that we were having with @Dave V about his HOn3 layout a week or so ago.
DFF
Not to steal the thread, but I'm somewhat angry with myself about this feeling. I have a completed layout--one that's been published three times and featured in multiple webcasts--that represents nearly the exact dream I've had since I rode the Durango and Silverton at age 14. So how dare I lose interest in it? To say nothing of the time and obscene amount of money sunk into it. This is the layout my father and I discussed building but never did. Sadly he can't travel now so he'll never get to see it finished in person, but he can enjoy it through video and photographs. But still...
I'm open to any and all suggestions about how to reinvigorate my interest in my completed RGS that don't involve scrapping it. Is it as easy as a trip to the Colorado Railroad Museum up the road to visit RGS 20 in person? Or drowning myself in YouTube videos about the RGS, D&RGW, C&TS, and D&SNG? Or do I just need to JFRTM?
Meanwhile I'm devouring all things Pennsy again like an addict who'd quit for years but suddenly fell off the wagon.
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I'll likely save a few portions myself, but I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!
True for so many layout owners I've known. Sorry to see the OJL go as it is one of my all-time favorite layouts. Smaller layouts have many virtues that I hope you will experience firsthand soon. Good luck with the next phase.
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Some very astute comments. I guess it boils down to whether in your heart you’re a Model Railroader (emphasis on running/operating trains) or a Railroad Modeler (emphasis on building/modeling). That’s probably why so many layouts never get truly finished & just keep getting modified/rebuilt. One of the problems with modeling a very specific section of prototype railroad & time period with its inherent end point. This would suggest taking a more freelance or fantasy approach that could keep growing & evolving if you enjoy the building aspect more, or just reconcile yourself to the inevitable end in advance. Of course, you could model the phased demolition of the RGS too.
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Just walk away from it for awhile - however long that takes - and keep working on the Pennsy layout or something else that interests you. A little later on down the tracks you'll get the spark that will reignite interest in the RGS and you'll start on it again. It's really no different than burnout, getting into funks or when people take breaks from working on their layouts. Same principals apply here.
Merry Christmas!
Not to steal the thread, but I'm somewhat angry with myself about this feeling. I have a completed layout--one that's been published three times and featured in multiple webcasts--that represents nearly the exact dream I've had since I rode the Durango and Silverton at age 14. So how dare I lose interest in it? To say nothing of the time and obscene amount of money sunk into it. This is the layout my father and I discussed building but never did. Sadly he can't travel now so he'll never get to see it finished in person, but he can enjoy it through video and photographs. But still...
I'm open to any and all suggestions about how to reinvigorate my interest in my completed RGS that don't involve scrapping it. Is it as easy as a trip to the Colorado Railroad Museum up the road to visit RGS 20 in person? Or drowning myself in YouTube videos about the RGS, D&RGW, C&TS, and D&SNG? Or do I just need to JFRTM?
Meanwhile I'm devouring all things Pennsy again like an addict who'd quit for years but suddenly fell off the wagon.
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Just walk away from it for awhile - however long that takes - and keep working on the Pennsy layout or something else that interests you. A little later on down the tracks you'll get the spark that will reignite interest in the RGS and you'll start on it again. It's really no different than burnout, getting into funks or when people take breaks from working on their layouts. Same principals apply here.
Merry Christmas!
I appreciate the suggestion! I did some JFRTM on the RGS yesterday (us Feds got the day off from the President) and that actually helped.
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Dean, Sorry to hear the news of tearing down the OJL, the layout was one of the best N scale layouts in the country. The scenery, helper operations, the color tab system (thanks for letting me steal that idea) and your awesome videos(make me happy now :-), tied everything together. Wishing you the best in the downsizing move and hope you have room for another layout, maybe smaller. Good Luck. Gordon Bliss/ Santa Fe-All the Way
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At the risk of further TRW thread drift, I started thinking further about @coldriver’s statement, “I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!” So, if you could have your dream layout built for you free of charge and you didn’t have to lift a finger, what would you do? I know I couldn’t be satisfied with that. There’s something about building it myself. In my view, it’s not always the destination but the journey to get there that makes this hobby so appealing.
DFF
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At the risk of further TRW thread drift, I started thinking further about @coldriver’s statement, “I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!” So, if you could have your dream layout built for you free of charge and you didn’t have to lift a finger, what would you do? I know I couldn’t be satisfied with that. There’s something about building it myself. In my view, it’s not always the destination but the journey to get there that makes this hobby so appealing.
OTOH, this is a direct quote from one of Tony Koester's books (The Allegheny Midland - Lessons Learned):
"Realistic operations are more than icing on the cake. In fact, I see operations as the cake, everything else is pure decoration.
As much as I wanted to create the visual tapestry of the Appalachian ridges and valleys, the main point was to simulate the daily work of a busy
coal hauler that also had to handle heavy overhead (bridge) traffic and a pair of passenger trains with dispatch."
I was kind of surprised at @coldriver's statement, because it is clearly designed for operations. For those who do not read the MRH forums you might be unaware that the layout was featured in the June 2023 issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist and the article did touch on operations.
https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/mdzd/index.html#p=1 (https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/mdzd/index.html#p=1)
[attachimg=1]
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Make me happy now, never again .... 😕
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At the risk of further TRW thread drift, I started thinking further about @coldriver’s statement, “I've learned that building the layout is way more interesting than having the layout!” So, if you could have your dream layout built for you free of charge and you didn’t have to lift a finger, what would you do? I know I couldn’t be satisfied with that. There’s something about building it myself. In my view, it’s not always the destination but the journey to get there that makes this hobby so appealing.
DFF
You know what? Me neither. I feel like it wouldn't be my "dream layout" if I didn't build it myself. Even the crap I don't enjoy as much (wiring, soldering track, etc.). It's all about the build for me.
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You know what? Me neither. I feel like it wouldn't be my "dream layout" if I didn't build it myself. Even the crap I don't enjoy as much (wiring, soldering track, etc.). It's all about the build for me.
It's the difference between creating art and buying art...
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OTOH, this is a direct quote from one of Tony Koester's books (The Allegheny Midland - Lessons Learned):
"Realistic operations are more than icing on the cake. In fact, I see operations as the cake, everything else is pure decoration.
As much as I wanted to create the visual tapestry of the Appalachian ridges and valleys, the main point was to simulate the daily work of a busy
coal hauler that also had to handle heavy overhead (bridge) traffic and a pair of passenger trains with dispatch."
I was kind of surprised at @coldriver's statement, because it is clearly designed for operations. For those who do not read the MRH forums you might be unaware that the layout was featured in the June 2023 issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist and the article did touch on operations.
https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/mdzd/index.html#p=1 (https://online.fliphtml5.com/buups/mdzd/index.html#p=1)
(Attachment Link)
I've surprised myself - I would have counted myself in line with Tony K going into the OJL. I always wanted a big ops oriented layout but wasn't particularly keen on building one, in part because I didn't believe I had the skills to pull off what I was envisioning. But I typically only averaged four op sessions per year (it was a big effort prepping and getting a crew together for a 12 to 15 operator session) which left a whole lot of time for me to be alone with the layout between sessions. Ultimately, I found building those big scenes to be so enjoyable that it started to feel like the op sessions (and those Youtube videos I was producing) were getting in the way of the construction fun I was having. And it really felt like a big let down once all the big scenes were complete - I had all sorts of goals to work on body mounted couplers, loco detailing, etc but I got very little enjoyment out of those efforts and quickly abandoned them.
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(and those Youtube videos I was producing) were getting in the way of the construction fun I was having.
Noooo! Say it ain't so!
I really enjoyed those. They're some of the most entertaining model railroad ops content out there.