Question about Layout Room/Basement Prep

[SquirrelHollow]

Phil - The my metal studs measure 0.016" - which is roughly 27 gauge, if I did the math correctly.


I'm not happy with mine.

They are quite easy to work with, and theoretically last longer than standard wood studs....  but I'm not sold.
The major problems come with hanging things from them.  Because of the tiny contact area (0.016" metal, versus 1.5-3.5" wood), screws do not like to stay where you put them.  I have had several pictures fall off the wall, just from vibrations slowly eating away at the sheetrock, while the metal stud acted as a pivot point for the screw. (I don't use nails for anything. They just destroy walls.)
Usually, the stud gets bent in the process, and the hole stripped.  So, I have to punch a new hole in the wall, or use a bigger screw (which doesn't work, since the sheetrock is messed up).

I prefer the solid mount that is achieved by having a substantial amount of wood for attachment.

I have three basement walls that use metal studs.  I have one removed for electrical access.  It will be replaced with wood studs, when the wall goes back up - since it is the shared back of a two opposing closets, and must support shelves on each side.  Another wall needs to support the TV in our home theater.  I don't trust the metal studs, and have already rebuilt that wall with full dimension 2x4s (I needed the extra 1/2" for an in-wall power center, and hidden wiring pass-thrus.)  The third wall is non-critical, but if I ever open it up...  it's getting wood studs.

The only thing I can't comment on, is moisture.  I live on a slope, over good drainage.

[conrail98]

I actually meant the width, not guage, was it the "furring strips" mentioned 1 1/2", 3 5/8", etc., but your feedback on the studs itself definitely helps,

Phil

[bobcat]

When I studded out my walls, I nailed 2 X 4s up across the joists along the walls and using concrete fasteners, fastened pressure treated 2 X 4s along the walls into the slab. Then I put up my 2 X 4 studs, 16" on center with horizontal cripples between the studs.

The wall is strong and has supported all the weight I have put on it. Hell, I can and have even put my weight on the layout. If that isn't an endorsement to it's strength, I don't know what would be. I didn't see and still don't see any reason to secure each stud to the wall.

I also agree with Phil about having a something solid to anchor to. That would be another reason for me to use wood studs.

[Ian MacMillan]

You shouldn't really use pressure treated wood indoors, kiln dried is fine. Pressure treated can be hazardous because of arsenic and other chemicals, and is generally not accepted by code. Vent your basement Bob!!!!!!!!!   

[bobcat]

I guess I should have stated I that I sealed it.

[conrail98]

Bob's method is the "standard" way I've seen studding out basement walls, pressure treated 2x4s along the slab/floor to protect against water on the floor itself, kiln dried for the wall studs themselves,

Phil

[Ian MacMillan]

May be a regional thing, I've never seen that done up here. And for us is not allowed in any amount by code. Nail it, rock it before someone checks!  ;D

[wm3798]

Treated floor plates are allowable in the IBC on a slab floor.  They protect the plate from moisture that condenses between the concrete and the wood.  Damp cool and woody conditions are a favorite of little termite friends, too.  The treated wood makes them dead, or at least less hungry.

Lee

[davefoxx]

Yeah, that's the way I've always seen it here in the Mid-Atlantic: pressure-treated wood whenever in contact with concrete.

As I think others may have already stated, I would not recommend penetrating the concrete wall.  That's just an invitation for moisture to seep in.  I say, if you have the room, build a 2' x 4' wall in front of the concrete wall, securing it to the floor and to the ceiling joists above.  Install heavy plastic sheeting (vapor barrier) that runs on the backside of the wall from above ground-level and under the wall, sealed with caulk at the top, under the bottom plate of the wall, and at any seams in the plastic sheeting.  That should keep you dry, if you don't have any problems now.  You can then insulate the wall just as you would any other exterior wall.

Hope this helps,
Dave Foxx

[conrail98]

Just wanted to bring out some findings I manage to get this weekend of another home on my block and what they did in finishing. My one neighbor just put furring strips on the masonry walls, looked like 1x3s, and attached drywall to them. He had no insulation against the wall and you could tell, it was cold. He also reported to have water problems every now and then. He did have the same kind of system around the bottom of the wall, where it meets the slab, that I do so I can compare what he did with what may/may not work in my basement. Also, all of his stud walls were made out of 2x3s plus drywall. My question would be, if I'm not doing structural, is 2x4 really necessary or could I get away with 2x3s (insulation not withstanding)? All of the partition, non-load-bearing walls in my house are 2x3s based on the remodeling I've done so far. I know it's only an 1" of space saving, but hey, that gives more space to the aisles, right?

Phil

[SquirrelHollow]

My question would be, if I'm not doing structural, is 2x4 really necessary or could I get away with 2x3s (insulation not withstanding)? All of the partition, non-load-bearing walls in my house are 2x3s based on the remodeling I've done so far. I know it's only an 1" of space saving, but hey, that gives more space to the aisles, right?

Phil

Normally, 2x3 interior walls aren't a big deal.  However...  you will have to deal with shallow switch and outlet boxes.  It makes wiring a little more fun and interesting.  There is also the problem of possibly not meeting code, if you run wires through the studs.  In my area, no wires can be within 1.5" of either face of the stud.  With a 2x3 stud, that's impossible.  The only way to meet code, is to have a vertical drop into the stud bay, for each outlet and switch box.



A separate, but related issue -
If you are planning to do the work without a permit, check your homeowner's insurance policy.  Most policies won't cover losses to any part of the property, if the work was done without a permit (or caused by non-permitted work).

I got lucky.  My policy is worded differently, and excludes items (or areas) that don't meet code.  Since there are also no penalties for homeowners not getting permits**; I don't... but build to code.  I have dropped a little over $15k into my basement and kitchen, since August - without a single permit.  Most of the work was for our own consumption; but we spent quite a bit of time bringing electrical and plumbing up to code, and fixing the idiotic f-ups of the previous owner. 

**It is a legal requirement that a permit be obtained for even an appliance replacement, in my city (including free-standing appliances).  However, all the way up to the State level, there are no penalties for homeowners failing to obtain the permits.  The only possible backlash is when non-permitted work causes (or receives) damage, and the insurance company won't cover it; or the work is within 10(?) feet of a utility right of way.**

[conrail98]

I'll check my policy and as far as running the wires goes, I really hate running them through studs anyways, it's next to impossible to reinsert an outlet after the fact. Also, since this is already the way the basement is now, I was thinking of putting the outlets in the ceiling with the "pull-down" extension cords. I found this setup worked great while I was building my daughter's crib and dresser,

Phil

[mcjaco]

I was just informed by my Realtor, while checking out my in laws under contract basement, that if we wanted to finish it (it's unfinished), we better get a building permit...or at least check with the village before we start.

He said a lot of townships are now checking real estate sales, and if you bought a home with an unfinished basement, and then sell with a finished basement, they actually go back and look to see if you filed for a permit.  They can fine you a ton more than the original permit would have cost. 

Just a way to get you in the end! 

[Ian MacMillan]

I'll check my policy and as far as running the wires goes, I really hate running them through studs anyways, it's next to impossible to reinsert an outlet after the fact. Also, since this is already the way the basement is now, I was thinking of putting the outlets in the ceiling with the "pull-down" extension cords. I found this setup worked great while I was building my daughter's crib and dresser,

Phil

Do it right the first time Phil. Do 2x4's with new work boxes.

I have wall outlets every 5' and ceiling outlets every 10'

[conrail98]

Stud spacing, 16" or 24"? I've cleaned out the layout room side and am going to go probably tomorrow to HD or Lowes and get the wood for the walls. I've decide I'm not going to insulate the walls nor drywall finish them. This way, god forbid, if I have to sell, the layout can be taken down and the walls bare for the next owner to do whatever they want to them. I do need to by a few bats of non-faced insulation to replace the old ones under my bay window and "sitting" area extensions, plus a bottle of spray foam for where Comcast just likes to drill holes through the wood footers,

Phil