Author Topic: Handlaying Z scale track  (Read 2130 times)

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johnjpeebles

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Handlaying Z scale track
« on: September 11, 2009, 08:59:56 PM »
Hi everyone - I'm new here but really amazed by some of the work that David K Smith and others like the guys behind zscalegallery.com have managed.  I'm primarily an N scaler but am building a diorama layout for use during the holidays as a Christmas decoration.

I decided to handlay the track on a 1x3ft base using code 40 rail.  Progress pictures and more can be found on my blog here: http://www.peebs.org/.

Interested if anyone else here handlays for Z scale and if anyone knows why the NMRA doesn't have a gauge?

Chris333

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 09:11:47 PM »
I handlay my own though not as nice as David's.

I use a little jig that Robert Ray made up to solder the PC ties. The PC ties are spaced out every inch and once both rails are down I slide laser cut wood filler ties in-between the PC ties.


The rail is C40 and I just use the Micro Trains coupler height gauge as a track gauge to solder.

David K. Smith

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 09:13:57 PM »
Good job! You and Chris Schmuck should have a lot to talk about.

As for a Z scale gauge, well... the NMRA barely acknowledges the existence of Z scale as it is. The problem is finding enough NMRA members who are serious Z scale modelers capable of building the body of standards necessary for things like a gauge tool. Then there's the cost of making them: would they sell enough of them to cover the investment?

Edit: I see Chris posted while I was typing mine...

Chris333

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 09:18:27 PM »
I once heard there is a etched gauge for Nn3 out there, but the NMRA doesn't make it. It would be pretty easy to whip up a gauge. I even thought about making a roller gauge on my lathe, but never got to it.

Your curve must be about 5.5" radius. How do the trains run on that?

johnjpeebles

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 09:49:09 PM »
Chris - very cool jig.  I decided to not use PC ties because, well...I was inpatient.  I was planning on spiking the track until I realized that Code 40 is way too small for that.  Didn't want to wait another weekend for a shipment of PC Boards to come in.

The trains run really well (very big surprise to me) on the tight radius and it's probably closer to a 5" radius than 5.5". You can definitely hear the "squeal" of the flanges as the train rounds the loop, but I've been able to run the train at both high and low speeds in both directions (pushing and pulling) with the few cars you can see.  It's really really cool to me to think you can have a loop curve within a foot of space.

David - this probably really betrays my ignorance, but why can't the NMRA just reduce the standards proportionally from N Scale for most things?  I have no idea how much work needs to be done on the standards end of things...oh well.

Chris333

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 10:33:41 PM »
This might be a help:
http://www.nn3.ca/track/standards-p1.htm

Really if I didn't have a gauge I would have just made one by making 2 little notches that were as wide as C40 rail head.

Good to know the curves work. I like that you can have sharp curves in Z, but I do try to hide them when I can. They are a real space saver.

David K. Smith

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »
David - this probably really betrays my ignorance, but why can't the NMRA just reduce the standards proportionally from N Scale for most things?  I have no idea how much work needs to be done on the standards end of things...oh well.

This won't work, because while the model can be scale down, tolerances cannot (or should not, at least). Tolerances are the key to making things work reliably; it takes a considerable effort and a lot of trial and error to come up with decent specs. There simply aren't enough serious Z scalers to support the effort, much as it's sorely needed given the raft of issues still being faced by manufacturers today. About four years ago some well-intentioned Z scalers established a Yahoo list for standards, and it's pretty much dead.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Stds_Cmt/

Pray59

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 04:09:00 PM »
There was a company, Halwa? I think, that was selling handmade turnouts through Aspenmodel.com, where the rails were glued down with contact cement to the lasercut plywood tie strips, but they don't last long.

There were several Nn3 modelers who had purchased them for their modules out here, and over a year or 2 the contact cement turns from rubber to a brittle dried out rubber band material, then cracks and the rails fall off.

The hard core modeler will use all PC Board ties. I use 1 per inch myself, and that works ok. Lesson learned is Expansion Joints, or keep your modules out of extreme temperature ranges.

I ruined 3 modules of handlaid track and turnouts by operating in the California Sun for several hours at a garden party. Trains were running great for a few hours, then in the afternoon things got ugly. Trains were derailing and operating in surges, at which time an examination of the track showed it had all came up from the ballast, and the rails were warped and bent. The turnouts were twisted pretzels.

Stagger your expansion joints every 12", and at room temperature they should be .02" wide, and have a rail joiner to keep them aligned. You can grind off the sidewalls of the rail joiners so they are not so noticeable.
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David K. Smith

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 05:30:32 PM »
There was a company, Halwa? I think, that was selling handmade turnouts through Aspenmodel.com, where the rails were glued down with contact cement to the lasercut plywood tie strips, but they don't last long.

There were several Nn3 modelers who had purchased them for their modules out here, and over a year or 2 the contact cement turns from rubber to a brittle dried out rubber band material, then cracks and the rails fall off.

The hard core modeler will use all PC Board ties. I use 1 per inch myself, and that works ok. Lesson learned is Expansion Joints, or keep your modules out of extreme temperature ranges.

I ruined 3 modules of handlaid track and turnouts by operating in the California Sun for several hours at a garden party. Trains were running great for a few hours, then in the afternoon things got ugly. Trains were derailing and operating in surges, at which time an examination of the track showed it had all came up from the ballast, and the rails were warped and bent. The turnouts were twisted pretzels.

Stagger your expansion joints every 12", and at room temperature they should be .02" wide, and have a rail joiner to keep them aligned. You can grind off the sidewalls of the rail joiners so they are not so noticeable.

Pliobond is pretty amazing stuff. I handlaid some N scale track using Pliobond back in the late 70s, and 20 years later the rail was still secure.

johnjpeebles

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 06:00:38 PM »
Chris - where do you get your laser cut ties?  Fast Tracks?

Agreed on the Pliobond being amazing stuff.  I cure it with a soldering iron and am hoping that combined with ballast holds long term.  Worst case, if I have to relay the track I'll know to use PC Ties from then on.

Just got my shipment of Z scale ballast from Highball in the mail so I guess that's next.

Chris333

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 06:27:07 PM »
The ties are Robert's as well. They perfectly match the 1" PC ties when you use his jig. Here is a page of his:
http://raybob.boche.net/projects/page921.htm

The system has worked for me. I do get anal about the solder and file it all out of the rail web. Sometimes doing this will get a weak joint and 90% of the time it is found way before paint and ballast so I just touch it up with the iron. I haven't found any kinks or warps, but I do keep the layout indoors.

The PC ties are from FastTracks. I know what you mean about ordering from Canada. I try to order a head of time.

David K. Smith

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 06:36:11 PM »
I guess I'm a "hard core" modeler, since I use 100% PC board ties. But I don't have a choice because my code 25 rail is too fine. I also can't remove excess solder because it's all needed to hold the rail, because the rail really isn't rail--it's just flat wire. But I do remove the excess copper cladding from the ties, and trim them back to simulate tie plates.








johnjpeebles

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2009, 07:36:29 PM »
David, your modeling is flat out incredible.  Your site was one of the inspirations in getting me to pay attention to Z scale and try it out.

Are you using woodland scenics grass on your layout or is that static grass?

David K. Smith

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2009, 07:53:15 PM »
David, your modeling is flat out incredible.  Your site was one of the inspirations in getting me to pay attention to Z scale and try it out.

Are you using woodland scenics grass on your layout or is that static grass?

Thanks for the kind words. The grass is Silflor tufts, available from Scenic Express, plus a few random bits of WS ground foam.

http://www.sceneryexpress.com/

johnjpeebles

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Re: Handlaying Z scale track
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 07:55:14 PM »
Thanks - just ordered up some sampler packs.  Will be fun to see if I can "steal" your techniques and get something half as nice on my layout!

Has anyone used the proto87 z scale frogs and other supplies (or for that matter the n scale stuff) to build turnouts?

http://www.proto87.com/z-scale-track.html

I'm curious as to results/experiences anyone might have had.

 

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